Fifth Midwest Region Constitutional Convention (for the Fourth Constitution)

[ilikeverin]

Friends and Midwesterners,

I come before you today under the purview of the Fourth Constitutional Convention bill, which reads as follows:

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Please sign in here by signing your name, as I am here:

ilikeverin

It is clear that the Third Midwestern Constitution is utterly inadequate for our present needs.  Without any regular series of elections and propositions, our region has lapsed into utter inactivity.  What we need now is change.  I welcome your suggestions for what we should do *hughughug*

We're Midwesterners, so we can dispense with formality.  Let's sit and chat and bring things to a vote as needed.  (96 hours to vote on things, perhaps?  Don't forget to send out nice PMs to remind people to vote for important stuff!)  If we decide we want to have a chair, well, it can't be me, as I'm off to Europe for three weeks starting on Tuesday the 17th of this month.  But I'm sure we can find someone.

[ilikeverin]

Alright, well, to make sure this thread doesn't die before I head to Europe, let's talk about what issues we need to address, shall we?

• Gubernatorial Reform. We need to figure out what we're doing with the Prime Verinship.  I propose reverting the Prime Verinship to a gubernatorial system, with regular elections.  We need to make sure we don't have long periods of time where there's no gubernatorial election because people forget to hold one, as well as make sure people know when elections are actually being held.
• Alþing Reform. We need to determine the responsibilities of the Alþing.  Personally, I think we need to make sure laws are voted on only occasionally, perhaps simultaneously with gubernatorial elections, to keep interest and participation high.  I know the idea of an elected Alþing has occasionally been mooted.
• Amendments. We need to make amendments easier to pass.
• Names. We need new names for our new offices, when applicable.  And perhaps a new official name for our dear region?

Is there anything else we want to address?

[ilikeverin]

Given the strong presence of Labor now in the region, this may also be an opportune time for us to incorporate into the document some basic, progressive principles to which the Alþing's acts should adhere. I fully intend to introduce a proposal for the fourth constitution this coming week that will be open to deliberation and amendment by my colleagues gathered here at the Convention. If this would be agreeable to you, Ilikeverin, I would also take the liberty of trying to include all of your suggestions - and any others which are made in this thread in the meanwhile - into my proposal.

The language I use would be non-partisan and aim to to leave our governing institutions flexible enough to legitimately explore many paths of policy, including many to which I am firmly opposed.

Sure, sounds wonderful!   The Midwest has always had a strong reformist tradition, with a long history of reformist leftist movements doing well (though at the beginning of its inception it was a swing region in terms of left/right).  I look forward to your proposals.

[ilikeverin]

Easily, for me. Not so sure about anyone else. This thread is very quiet, which makes me a bit concerned that the Midwest might be irreversibly inactive. Anyway, I'm going to make that adjustment I mentioned since dead0man hasn't posted anything else. xD

Don't worry, I'll try to give comments ASAP.  Europe is busy, unsurprisingly!

[ilikeverin]

Thoughts, tweaks, comments, etc.:

1. We should make sure use of "Nation" for our region doesn't conflict with any regulations about the use of the term nor is unpleasant to any Native American tribes.
2. Though I love the name "Makawakana", but I'm not sure its symbolism is perfect.  Maybe Makakapana, something similar to "grain-land" maybe kind of and also rather silly looking?
3. I absolutely love the Checklist of Untouchable Social Privileges (CUSP)!
4. Assuming we'd want 10 items for the Checklist of Agreed State Tasks (CAST), I'd like to replace the provision allowing for the Land/Sky/Wave Corps.  I don't think we need a regional army.
5. I think the gun control clause ought to be a bit more strict; we should say something that allows for a reasonable level of gun control over and above "no heavy armaments" (e.g., though I'd certainly go further, I think everyone can agree that, say, schizophrenics, should not be allowed to buy guns).
6. No, no, no, the capital simply must be Belle Fourche for all purposes.  Except I think it should be renamed for Cheesewhiz for obvious reasons.
7. The government titles are appropriately loony and I give them a for sure.  But I of course strongly disagree with the existence of an elected legislature, and even if we have one I think 5 is too many.
8. Relatedly, a one-day election is much too short.  We used to have 7-day elections, which I think are better than the general 3-day ones.
9. II(d) is wonderful and I support this.  What is a *hughuggrunt*, though?
10. Section III is made of wonderful and rainbows and sparkly.  I love everything in it.
11. I very much approve of the residual irridentialism in Section IV (see: the state formerly known as New Mexico).  We may wish to have a chat about state names at some point, but I like many of these.  "Befuddlement" and "Rosiness" are the ones I'm a little iffy on.
12. IV(f): I'm torn on this one.  On the one hand, having lots of silly official languages is good.  On the other, I'm a linguist.  I'd rather we had none.  What language it is that we use should depend on the people in the Region; it shouldn't be imposed by fiat.  At the very least, we should have something about not supporting any particular standard of English for speech for classroom instruction or the like.

[ilikeverin]

I'm probably responding to stuff that's already out of date, but one thing at a time

Hmm...

1. We should make sure use of "Nation" for our region doesn't conflict with any regulations about the use of the term nor is unpleasant to any Native American tribes.
2. Though I love the name "Makawakana", but I'm not sure its symbolism is perfect.  Maybe Makakapana, something similar to "grain-land" maybe kind of and also rather silly looking?

I have become irrationally fond of the the "Makawakana" name in the spirit of Midwestern self-aggrandizement, and reckon it is a less Euro-Atlasian than respectfully Native Atlasian way to refer to the states of the Great Plains. However, would it suffice to replace the label "Nation" with something toned down a bit (Republic) or even labourite (Workers Region)? I think it is important we can all agree on a name but I'm not sure if I much like this new pitch.

Republic/Workers' Region is fine with me.  I was lobbying for Jamahiriya, but I think that would be rather imprudent at the moment   "Most Serene Republic" could be fun, too.

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We should go to the GM for a decision on this.

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I initially intended for the three corps to be more of a civil service force administered region-wide for the purposes of enforcing laws, serving as game wardens and rangers in regional parks, being our boots on the ground for responses to natural disasters, and so forth. But if you reckon it is an ill-conceived idea, I am sure there are alternative ideas we could explore for rounding off the Checklist of Agreed States Tasks. 
[/quote]

Hmm, gotcha.  That sounds just like a state police, though, so I'm not sure it's something that needs to be constitutionally-inscribed.

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Perhaps I could broaden the state's room for interpretation a bit more by giving it authority to regular "tools with potentially lethal applications," or would that be going to far in the other direction? There are some people in this region who strongly support gun-related rights - and to be honest I lean somewhat in that direction myself - but I am sure we can agree on some basic, sensible guidelines to adhere to with something like this. When I hear back from you on these issues again in another post I'll try to respond with a quoted copy of the constitution covered with new markups to see if we've found sufficient common ground. Ya?
[/quote]

Oh ya.

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This is an incredibly good idea. Given the low population of the-town-soon-to-be-renamed-as-Cheesewhiz, however, it would be prudent to keep the proposed parliament of sorts in Cheyenne, ya? I'm willing to make Belle Fourche the official capital though, just to be clear.
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Belle Fourche has been the capital since the dawn of Atlasian time, so I presume its size has increased proportionately over the United States-equivalent.  If you'd prefer a bigger city, though, Cheyenne is a good choice; it's the closest "large-ish" city to the geographic center of the Midwest.

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I in turn am strongly opposed to direct democracy and am concerned that a lack of elections is contributing in part to the virtually complete inactivity of the Alþing. If the convention can think of a way to boost participation, however, I am willing to have universal membership (sans the Wisard) in the  Alþing under the added condition that it be phrased in the constitution in such a way as to construe every player in the Midwest has been elected from one of our region's sub-administrative districts and that we simply never bother with conducting the elections in-game for lack of hundreds of players to necessitate such a multi-tiered division of labor (i.e. the "elections" occur on a regular basis and assume we keep getting reelected unless someone leaves the region or forum altogether, in which case we could act as though they lost a bid for reelection... or something like that). I'm not sure if I'm making a lot of sense here now. Hopefully someone is following my line of thought. Ideas? xD
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I think I get what you're saying, and I completely agree.  How it used to be was that there was a very robust referendum system, with regularly scheduled "referendum elections" where people could vote on bills.  The way we could keep universality while also going back to a regularly scheduled system of elections (which is definitely a good thing) would be to make it so that referendums have a ridiculous easy time to get on the ballot: they have to have a single citizen-legislator sign off on them to get them on the next regularly-scheduled ballot.  Does that make sense?

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Okay, fair enough. If Befuddlement and Rosiness are out, do you have any preferences for what to replace them with? Once we've all settled on the names I will gladly edit the map I made awhile back. It shouldn't take more than ten minutes or so to take care of, I suspect.
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Enthusiasm and Elation?

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It is a Midwestern custom I've fabricated out of thin air which involves two people first firmly grasping their right hands, followed by a hearty, belly-to-belly bear hug with two pats of the back for each participant using both the left and rights hands. The ritual ends with a guttural sound of ones choice to express mutual approval, fondness, and/or physical discomfort from being too close to one another for enough seconds to make the whole experience somewhat awkward. It's a more formal, dignified, and "serious" variation of the traditional *hughughug*.
[/quote]

Hmm, I do like that it has awkwardness in it.  I may stick to the orthodox *hughughug*, but you may try to see it gain acceptance.  Still, I'm not sure we should be introducing completely new actions in this Constitution.  Allow such things to develop organically.

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This is perfectly understandable. I proposed a Norwegian official language mostly as a cultural counter to giving privileged status to English and German. If you and the others here would concur, I would be willing to do away with official languages in the Midwest Region altogether.
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Great.  I'd support that.  At the very least, giving a privileged status to Swedish instead of Norwegian would make more sense given the ancestry of our citizenry and our Atlasian membership (Gustaf, a noted Midwesterner, is Swedish in origin and in-game lives in Lindstrom, Happiness).

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Sounds lovely!

[ilikeverin]

Shall I give the newest draft of the Constitution a once-over?  What's changed?  (*wishes for a "Track Changes" button like on Wikipedia - is this on the Forum Wiki?*)

As far as holidays go, I feel like at some point my birthday (August 16th) was declared a regional holiday.

. . . but I personally think that chocolate-chip muffins are better than blueberry.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. Does anyone here object to me matching the switch? xD

I prefer blueberry   Perhaps we should just honor muffins in general.

[ilikeverin]

I think we should hold a vote with the possibilities we have now.  Does anyone have any others?

[ilikeverin]

One thing is clear. We must have a legislature.

Why is that clear?  We just need regularly scheduled elections and referenda.

[ilikeverin]

Talking of elections, when is the next?

That's exactly why we need to make sure elections are regularly timed in this constitution!

[ilikeverin]

Idea for a ballot - let me know if you have other suggestions or ideas for what to vote on or what options to include.  I'll PM people when we bring it to a vote.  This is my top priority as Prime Verin.


Remaining State Names (the top two will be selected)
[ ] Adventure
[ ] Amity
[ ] Harmony
[ ] Adulation

Region Name
[ ] Makawakana
[ ] Makakapana
[ ] Kharovóy
[ ] Midwest
[ ] Great Plains
[ ] Pembina
[ ] Absaroka

Region Descriptor
[ ] Region
[ ] Workers' State
[ ] People's State
[ ] People's Democratic Republic
[ ] People's Democratic Region
[ ] Most Serene Republic
[ ] Most Serene Region
[ ] Occidental Republic
[ ] Occidental Region

Regional Capital
[ ] Cheesewhiz, Vitality (the former Belle Fourche) - legislative, executive, and judicial
[ ] Cheesewhiz, Vitality (the former Belle Fourche) - executive; Cheyenne, (former-Wyoming) - legislative, judicial

Executive Officer Powers (vote for as many as desired)
[ ] Veto power for legislature (needs super-majority to overrule)
[ ] Veto power for legislature (needs majority to overrule)
[ ] Tie-breaking power for legislature

Legislature
[ ] Universal, ad hoc voting periods
[ ] Universal, pre-defined voting periods
[ ] Elected, 5 members
[ ] Elected, 3 members

Election Type
[ ] Approval
[ ] Condorcet
[ ] IRV
[ ] FPTP
[ ] Other: ___________

Election Length
[ ] 3 Days
[ ] 7 Days

Regional Muffin
[ ] Blueberry
[ ] Chocolate chip
[ ] Lemon poppyseed
[ ] Corn
[ ] Blood
[ ] Imaginary
[ ] Israel-Palestinian conflict

[ilikeverin]

The vote would by approval or preferential?

Preferential, I think.  Though we do have our long history of doing it by approval...

[ilikeverin]

The vote would by approval or preferential?

Preferential, I think.  Though we do have our long history of doing it by approval...

Hence my question.

Actually, yeah, let's do it by approval voting.  Any other comments about the substantive content of the vote?

[ilikeverin]

In the interest of full disclosure, I've sent out a PM to all Midwesterners (except for "Mr. Libertarian", who I can't find) that reads as follows:


Hello Midwesterners,

I come before you today with a very important vote ahead of us.  This vote is available here.  With this ballot, we go a long way towards finally getting a working Constitution in order that will fix the problems caused by the Third Constitution.  First and foremost, no matter the outcome of the Advisory Vote, we will go back to a fixed calendar of elections.  No longer can inactivity reign supreme in our region forever!

As a part of the advisory vote, we're deciding on the composition of the legislature.  At the moment, we're a universal legislature.  In general, I implore you to continue our vital regional traditions of loony thought, but this is one particular issue where I think looniness and good policy are well aligned.  A universal legislature makes sure that the needs of all Midwesterners, not just an elected few, can and will be heard.  Don't think that this means that the timing of these votes will be as sporadic as it is now; citizen-legislators will be able to propose laws whenever they please, but they will be voted on once every other month, on certain pre-arranged days.  But any restriction of legislating to a select few will make our region less egalitarian, which I think is something that our region holds dear.

That said - vote your conscience!  Whatever vote you make, any vote is a sign that the Midwest shall be trod in the dust no longer, but be raised more fully-formed from the ashes of the Third Constitution!

*hughughug*
Prime Verin ilikeverin

[ilikeverin]

The results are as follows: https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=159622.msg3439148#msg3439148

Redalgo, would you care to do the honors of adjusting our current draft of the Constitution to match Midwesterners' preferences?

[ilikeverin]

Yes, I will prepare a new draft of the Constitution for review by this convention tomorrow.

My apologies for the delay. I've been a bit distracted from the forum these past few days!

No problem!  Take your time *hughughug*

[ilikeverin]

I've uploaded a version to the Wiki.  It does not yet include the clarified executive office powers, the name of Wyoming, and, most importantly, the elections (or lack thereof).  See here: https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Fourth_Midwest_Constitution

[ilikeverin]

Alright, wonderful!  I've updated the version on the Wiki; you can read it here: https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Fourth_Midwest_Constitution

Note that there are some revisions from Redalgo's most recent draft.  Notably, the term of everyone is extended to 4 months, with elections timed to approximately (though not always precisely) correspond with national ones - all the better to increase turnout!  Also, the voting period for legislation is established (every two months, co-timed with elections for officials).

I think we're getting close to a final vote.  Let me PM people to see if we get any more comments.

[ilikeverin]

Still running the tightest and friendliest ship in Atlasia, eh Verin?

Eh, just took back the reins this summer because things were kind of falling off a cliff.  Trying to get it back on track.  I hope we're still the friendliest, though!  *hughughug*

Alright, wonderful!  I've updated the version on the Wiki; you can read it here: https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Fourth_Midwest_Constitution

Note that there are some revisions from Redalgo's most recent draft.  Notably, the term of everyone is extended to 4 months

I oppose this. Way too long in case we forget to hold an election again. I move it be shortened to 1 month.

For the legislature or for the executive?  Makes sense for the legislature (), but for the executive it shouldn't be hard to remember when elections are.  The reason we forgot to hold them essentially at all during the Third Constitution is because it's not explicitly spelled out when the dates that the elections start and end are.

[ilikeverin]

For the legislature or for the executive?  Makes sense for the legislature (), but for the executive it shouldn't be hard to remember when elections are. 

For the executive. Legislation should only be at vote at two months intervals - less danger of just three people voting when there's a federal election going on at the same time. For the executive, that wouldn't be so much of a problem. (Actually, I was half-trolling and two months would be perfectly fine with me.)

Thoughts are currently 1-1 on this idea, it seems, so perhaps you can bring it to a vote in the new legislature!

The current draft of the Fourth Constitution also states that we need to take a vote on our executive officers; I'm happy with either position and suggest Redalgo as another one.  (He may, perhaps, be a better Wisard than me, for he's the one who made this Constitution )  Other candidates are, of course, welcome! *hughughug*   Now that I'm a big fancy grad student it probably wouldn't be a bad idea for me to step down from a post.  We'll use IRV for that vote.


Speaking of voting, I hereby move this Convention to a vote.  You must be signed in as a delegate to vote.  The current delegates are as follows:

• ilikeverin
• MaxQue
• Kalwejt
• dead0man
• JulioMadrid
• Redalgo
• angus
• hawkeye59
• Fritz
• A-Bob

If you're not on the list, please officially declare your intention to serve as a delegate before you vote!

Anyway, ballot is as follows:

Ratification
Do you vote to ratify the Fourth Constitutional Convention and close the Fifth Midwest Constitutional Convention?
[ ] (Yes)
[ ] (No)

Regional Kommissær
Who shall be our first Regional Kommissær (head of government)?  Please choose from the list of delegates and rank them in order of preference.
[ ]

Wisard Ekstraordinær
Who shall be our first Wisard Ekstraordinær (head of state)?  Please choose from the list of delegates and rank them in order of preference.
[ ]


Voting will end in exactly one week.

[ilikeverin]

Do you vote to ratify the Fourth Constitutional Convention and close the Fifth Midwest Constitutional Convention?
[]  (Yes)
[ ]  (No)

Regional Kommissær
Who shall be our first Regional Kommissær (head of government)?  Please choose from the list of delegates and rank them in order of preference.
[1] Redalgo
[2] Kalwejt
[3] ilikeverin

Wisard Ekstraordinær
Who shall be our first Wisard Ekstraordinær (head of state)?  Please choose from the list of delegates and rank them in order of preference.
[1] Redalgo
[2] Kalwejt
[3] ilikeverin

[ilikeverin]

Comrade Fritz, your vote was after the week has expired.  However, in the spirit of *hughughug*, I choose to count your vote anyway!  (In any case, it would not materially affect the outcome; ilikeverin's vote for Redalgo for RK would have flowed to Kalwejt, and angus's ballot for WE would have been exhausted.)

The final total is:

Ratification: Passes 8-1
Regional Kommissær: Kalwejt is duly elected with a first-round margin of 5-3 (ilikeverin)-1 (Redalgo).
Wisard Ekstraordinær: Redalgo is duly elected with a first-round margin of 5-3 (ilikeverin)-1 (dead0man).

Thank you to all participants!

[ilikeverin]

Umm... is Redalgo aware of his election? He's yet to take office.

I PMed both of you.