Huckabee defends admitted child molester

[Fuzzy Bear Loves Christian Missionaries]

His judgment of human character is just horrible.

Any good cabinet picks by him would be pure luck.

I agree, Huckabee has real poor character judgement.

Another problem is that he 100% in the concept of biblical redemption for murders and molesters

Well, they ARE redeemed if they are in Christ.  There is forgiveness for these sins in Heaven; Christ has already provided for that. 

Restoration is a different issue.  The forgiveness of Christ is not a pardon from Earthly penalties, and it does not automatically mandate that the forgiven party should be restored to their former position, particularly if they continue to struggle in an area of sin.  It is one thing to forgive a sex offender.  It is another thing to restore him to a congregation (which is possible).  It is yet another thing to restore him to children's ministry (which, on it's face, is unsafe).  It's one thing to forgive an adulterous Pastor and restore him to ministry as an Evangelist; it's another thing to restore him to a Pastorate, especially if his dalliance was with a congregant, and even more especially, if it was someone he was actively counseling with. 

Huckabee's loyal to his friend, and I give him some props for that.  Whatever Jim Bob Duggar's faults in the matter, Huckabee isn't turning his back and letting the media wolves just have at him.  I see nothing wrong with that.  It's not like Huckabee is proposing to nominate Jim Bob to head up the Department of HHS.  "A friend loveth at all times."  In my own life, I'd rather have a friend like Mike Huckabee than a whole lot of folks I can think of.

[Fuzzy Bear Loves Christian Missionaries]

Believing in redemption is scandalous.  It has always been thus.

It's fine to believe in redemption, but Huckabee goes out of his way to defend these people solely because of their Christianity. I don't believe he would be talking about redemption if this were some random child molester.


Yes, there is nothing wrong with redemption.  Being a Christian means hoping that all might one day be redeemed.  When it comes to child sex crimes and premeditated murderers, however, the perpetrators will have to seek redemption in the next world.  Not because they are inherently irredeemable, but because of public safety.    

Redemption doesn't mean that you don't have to face legal penalties.  It means that you are not defined by what you did, that you are not forever judged for it as being unworthy of respect and incapable of goodness.  If you do not believe that people can change and learn and grow from what they did in their youth, then you do not believe in redemption.

Redemption is not without a price -- namely, taking the worldly penalties (including shame, pain, imprisonment, and financial ruin) that one accepts if redemption is genuine.

A murderer is still a murderer in our world. A thief is still a thief in our world. A rapist is still a rapist in our world. If one accepts Christianity as true, then even being burned at the stake is a minor payment for eternal salvation.

What kind of weird theology claims that being burned at the stake could be payment for salvation?  The idea that a person cannot be redeemed from sin if they do not suffer criminal penalties, or that they should live their entire lives being shamed by those around them for what they did completely misses the role of grace. Christianity is not "you deserve forgiveness if you suffer enough or what you did isn't that bad."

For the unbeliever, Christ is nothing more than a new Kevin Trudeau, promising something too good to be true.  Works-based plans of salvation make more sense to people at one level, and I include many folks who profess to be "Christians" in this because it seems unfair that a murderer/child molester, or someone as awful as a Hitler or a Stalin could have a deathbed revelation and truly accept Christ and receive an eternal reward and be forever in the same Heaven that a "good person" goes to.  The real attraction to works-based plans of salvation is that it seems to offer folks some control over their eternity.  ("I can be good and make the cut!") 

[Fuzzy Bear Loves Christian Missionaries]

What did Huck actually say in the article? He said

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which is 100% correct. Nothing is unforgivable. In fact, I'd say that Huckabee has time and again erred on the side of forgiveness. That's admirable in my book.

From my perspective, Josh's actions aren't beyond redemption. But his family's hypocrisy is. That Michelle Duggar has the nerve to record a robocall against a nondiscrimination ordinance claiming that trans people are child molesters when her own son molested four of their own daughters is beyond inexcusable.

If Michelle Duggar did this, then, yes, this is extreme hypocrisy, but hypocrisy is not beyond redemption.  After all, do any of the liberals here call for Jesse Jackson to just pack it up and disappear for his 1984 slurs on Jews?  Do any of the liberals here demand that Al Sharpton, who has never apologized for perpetuating the Tawana Brawley hoax, have his show on MSNBC yanked?  (C'mon, somebody!)

As to Michael Brown, (A) the Officer who shot him has been cleared of criminal wrongdoing and (B) a video clearly shows him committing a strong-arm robbery against a weaker, smaller store clerk.  Huckabee's response on Michael Brown is to the assertion that he is, somehow, a victim who didn't deserve to die.  And his death was certainly avoidable, but it was up to Michael Brown to do the avoiding and comply with lawful police commands.  I get it that the people of Ferguson have a number of legitimate grievances, but there is this implication made in the discussion about police conduct that, somehow, people have the RIGHT to resist a lawful detention or arrest by a police officer.  Michael Brown's death at a young age is a tragedy, but his committing strong-arm robbery against a weaker victim (a fact, verified by video) is never acknowledged by the Sharptons of the world, and Huckabee isn't wrong to point it out.

The Duggar hypocrisy is obvious; I get it.  They're not alone in the hypocrite tent, however, and that tent is by no means a "religious right, only" area.

[Fuzzy Bear Loves Christian Missionaries]

I believe that if Mike Huckabee had done the opposite of what he did; if he had lambasted Josh Duggar for his actions, and lambasted his father for not reporting this matter to authorities immediately upon discovery, he'd be lambasted by the same people for not being forgiving.  There would be references as to how "hypocritical" he was and how "judgmental" he was by the same people pillorying him now.  They'd be pointing out Scripture on forgiveness and painting Huckabee as a judgmental, condemning religious fanantic.

I realize there are a number of whining Christians who can't tell the difference between real religious persecution and merely receiving flak for being a Christian.  Jesus, Himself, told His Disciples, "If the World hates you, remember that it hated Me first."; these folks ought to have been forewarned that not everyone is going to give them a Gold Star for being a Christian.  But Huckabee is in a position where he can't win either way.  He's a Pastor, and he can't claim ignorance as to what Scripture says on forgiveness.  As a Pastor, he's done the right thing.  If folks don't want a former Pastor as their President, they don't have to vote for him, but in his particular spot, I believe he did the right thing.

[Fuzzy Bear Loves Christian Missionaries]

(Huckabee) could just be ignoring it like all the sane Republicans.

Huckabee can't ignore this because he knows the Duggars; they are friends and allies.  I suspect he concluded, friendship aside, that it was better to get his comments out early, rather than have this thing hashed out 2 days before meaningful voting starts.  It's a lot better that Huckabee, himself, addresses this issue.  If he didn't, it would be addressed for him, and then he wouldn't look good no matter what was said or done.

[Fuzzy Bear Loves Christian Missionaries]

Child molestation is damnable and inexcusable. Children need to develop some wholesome trust in humanity as a whole, and child sexual abuse utterly destroys such trust.

Children of a certain age (latency) have no interest in sex. Sex can only hurt them; they cannot enjoy it. I think that we can all agree on this: adults must repress any urge to mess with a child sexually. This is an absolute, and there are no excuses.  Not alcohol or drugs, and certainly not religion.

I'm probably digging myself into a hole here considering this forum, but it's a bit excusable for a 14 year old, especially one who was growing up in a household like this that doesn't know any better because of how closed off some topics must be. And honestly that goes for probably anyone of that age. Not denying the results can be horrific, but we're not talking about a 27 year old man doing this.

http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/expunging-or-sealing-a-juvenile-court-record-arkansas

I think that Jim Bob Duggar was in a real "Sophie's Choice" situation, and, yes, I agree that the fact that Josh Duggar was 14 years old at the time is relevant in determining the right and wrong here of the response.  If it's true that what has been revealed is the extent of such activities by Josh Duggar and that there have not been any other instances or any other victims, then Jim Bob Duggar was able to both protect his daughters from further harm and save his son from Draconian penalties that may well not have been appropriate in his case.

In retrospect, Jim Bob would have been better off calling the cops right away.  Josh would have had an expunged record by now, according to Arkansas law.  Now, of course, his deeds will live on forever in the media, and no one, not even the victims, will have any control of the media frenzy over this.

I'm not going to pretend I know how this would have been handled in a perfect world.  In a perfect world, these awful events would not have happened.  But I will note that very few of those who are excoriating Jim Bob Duggar and Mike Huckabee here could care less about the victims.  They are mainly concerned with politics and with their resentments toward Fundamentalist Christianity.  In that respect, Jim Bob Duggar gave folks a hammer that he, his son, and his Presidential candidate can all be beaten over the head with.  If this is therapeutic for the victims, I'm all for it, but somehow, I suspect that it may not be so.

[Fuzzy Bear Loves Christian Missionaries]

Child molestation is damnable and inexcusable. Children need to develop some wholesome trust in humanity as a whole, and child sexual abuse utterly destroys such trust.

Children of a certain age (latency) have no interest in sex. Sex can only hurt them; they cannot enjoy it. I think that we can all agree on this: adults must repress any urge to mess with a child sexually. This is an absolute, and there are no excuses.  Not alcohol or drugs, and certainly not religion.

I'm probably digging myself into a hole here considering this forum, but it's a bit excusable for a 14 year old, especially one who was growing up in a household like this that doesn't know any better because of how closed off some topics must be. And honestly that goes for probably anyone of that age. Not denying the results can be horrific, but we're not talking about a 27 year old man doing this.

http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/expunging-or-sealing-a-juvenile-court-record-arkansas

I think that Jim Bob Duggar was in a real "Sophie's Choice" situation, and, yes, I agree that the fact that Josh Duggar was 14 years old at the time is relevant in determining the right and wrong here of the response.  If it's true that what has been revealed is the extent of such activities by Josh Duggar and that there have not been any other instances or any other victims, then Jim Bob Duggar was able to both protect his daughters from further harm and save his son from Draconian penalties that may well not have been appropriate in his case.  If there's more; if there are more victims, or more instances against the same victims after Josh Duggar came home from his "work therapy", that's another story, but there's no indication that this is the case at this time.  Yes, Josh Duggar could turn into the next Bill Cosby, but until he does, the situation needs to be viewed in light of the facts out there.

In retrospect, Jim Bob would have been better off calling the cops right away.  Josh would have had an expunged record by now, according to Arkansas law.  Now, of course, his deeds will live on forever in the media, and no one, not even the victims, will have any control of the media frenzy over this.

I'm not going to pretend I know how this would have been handled in a perfect world.  In a perfect world, these awful events would not have happened.  But I will note that very few of those who are excoriating Jim Bob Duggar and Mike Huckabee here could care less about the victims.  They are mainly concerned with politics and with their resentments toward Fundamentalist Christianity.  In that respect, Jim Bob Duggar gave folks a hammer that he, his son, and his Presidential candidate can all be beaten over the head with.  If this is therapeutic for the victims, I'm all for it, but somehow, I suspect that it may not be so.

[Fuzzy Bear Loves Christian Missionaries]

Child molestation is damnable and inexcusable. Children need to develop some wholesome trust in humanity as a whole, and child sexual abuse utterly destroys such trust.

Children of a certain age (latency) have no interest in sex. Sex can only hurt them; they cannot enjoy it. I think that we can all agree on this: adults must repress any urge to mess with a child sexually. This is an absolute, and there are no excuses.  Not alcohol or drugs, and certainly not religion.

I'm probably digging myself into a hole here considering this forum, but it's a bit excusable for a 14 year old, especially one who was growing up in a household like this that doesn't know any better because of how closed off some topics must be. And honestly that goes for probably anyone of that age. Not denying the results can be horrific, but we're not talking about a 27 year old man doing this.

http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/expunging-or-sealing-a-juvenile-court-record-arkansas

I think that Jim Bob Duggar was in a real "Sophie's Choice" situation, and, yes, I agree that the fact that Josh Duggar was 14 years old at the time is relevant in determining the right and wrong here of the response.  If it's true that what has been revealed is the extent of such activities by Josh Duggar and that there have not been any other instances or any other victims, then Jim Bob Duggar was able to both protect his daughters from further harm and save his son from Draconian penalties that may well not have been appropriate in his case.  If there's more; if there are more victims, or more instances against the same victims after Josh Duggar came home from his "work therapy", that's another story, but there's no indication that this is the case at this time.  Yes, Josh Duggar could turn into the next Bill Cosby, but until he does, the situation needs to be viewed in light of the facts out there.

In retrospect, Jim Bob would have been better off calling the cops right away.  Josh would have had an expunged record by now, according to Arkansas law.  Now, of course, his deeds will live on forever in the media, and no one, not even the victims, will have any control of the media frenzy over this.

I'm not going to pretend I know how this would have been handled in a perfect world.  In a perfect world, these awful events would not have happened.  But I will note that very few of those who are excoriating Jim Bob Duggar and Mike Huckabee here could care less about the victims.  They are mainly concerned with politics and with their resentments toward Fundamentalist Christianity.  In that respect, Jim Bob Duggar gave folks a hammer that he, his son, and his Presidential candidate can all be beaten over the head with.  If this is therapeutic for the victims, I'm all for it, but somehow, I suspect that it may not be so.

This isn't even about politics. If a Democrat did this I'd be saying the same thing. Most of the people giving them hell do give a damn about the victims. That anybody is defending either Duggar or Huckabe is despicable and disgusting. There is no excuse.

Sure, it's about politics.  Rep. Gerry Studds (D-MA) had sex with an underage male Congressional Page, and was merely censured by the Democratic House.  He was unrepentant, and his Democratic district continued to re-elect him through the mid-1990s. 

From Wikipedia:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerry_Studds

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Rep. Daniel Crane (R-IN) was also found to be having sex with an underage female page; he was ridden out on a rail by the voters in the 1984 elections.  Studds, on the other hand, became the Chairman of the Merchant Marine and Fisheries committee in 1990, a chair he had his eye set on for a long, long time.

If Josh Duggar, and Jim Bob Duggar, and Mike Huckabee, and anyone else in their set took a look at the Gerry Studds matter and how it played out, they'd we wondering what the deal is.  Studds weathered some flak, but recovered it all, and even blew the underage victim off as having consented.  Now two wrongs don't make a right, but please don't tell me that this isn't about a combination of partisan politics and generalized resentment for Evangelicals.

I do wonder how many people weighing in here are actually PARENTS.  Not that not being a parent invalidates ones opinion, but I wonder what the PARENTS in this forum would ACTUALLY do (and not hypothetically do) if they were in a similar situation where they had to make this kind of choice.  Jim Bob Duggar's TV act may wear thin with me, but his real-world dilemma has my empathy, and while I don't believe I'd have handled the situation as he did, I'd be taking into account that my son, in that situation, was only 14 years old, and a child, himself.  When you divorce the politics of this and put yourself in the position of a PARENT in that situation, you can begin to understand the kind of crushing pressure the most unselfish of parents would be under in such a situation.

[Fuzzy Bear Loves Christian Missionaries]

-snip-

That the 1983 House of Representatives. Democrats on Atlas, spoiler alert, were not members of that Congress. We have the potential to disagree with them.

Legally speaking, I don't believe either of those liaisons were illegal, but they should be frowned upon, for the fact that the pages were underage.

On Huckabee, it's disgusting that he defends this man. Personally, I believe in the possibility for redemption, but this man and his family completely bypassed the legal process. They thought they were above the law. They thought it was okay that they deal with their son molesting girls  internally. That's wrong. Huckabee only defends him because of his generous donations.

It is nothing more than that, and it is pathetic.

The law did not require Jim Bob Duggar to report this, from what I have read.  Whether he should have done so, and done so in a timeframe of less than the 1 year he took before he did it is another matter, and a moral question.  That he did not sent his son to an actual therapy program (where the therapist would likely have been a mandatory reporter of some sort) is another aspect of the affair that I question.   

But if, in fact, Josh Duggar came home from wherever it was that he was sent, never inappropriately touched anyone ever again, there are no more victims or instances of victimization that remain unrevealed, and the Duggar daughters are TRULY satisfied with the final outcome of all of this, then is it not possible that the best possible outcome for all did actually come about?  For all of my questions, I can't honestly say that it didn't.  And while I'm not down with Huckabee on everything by a long shot, friendship ought to mean not publicly tossing your friend overboard just because it may be expedient to do so.  Huckabee isn't responsible for the matter in any way, and standing by a friend under fire (even deserved fire) is something most of us would hope for in our friends.

[Fuzzy Bear Loves Christian Missionaries]

Quick update. Huck's pal Josh was revealed as an adulterer in the Ashley Madison hack.  He issued a statement admitting it and more

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Josh is a mess, but he's more forthright than Jim Bob.