Amherst scores triumph over "male white privilege", bans fraternities

[AggregateDemand]

Again clearly you have no idea what you are talking about.

I know. None of us ever went to college or pledged. We're just armchair quarterbacking the situation with our associates degrees from Phoenix Online.

[Kevin]

As someone who's in a fraternity, this decision and this entire thread is full of bulls[inks]t.

Instead of just banning fraternities altogether, why don't they take steps to actually solve the problem of rape, hazing and binge drinking on campus rather than ban organizations that take part of them? Greeks aren't the only ones who take part of this. In all honesty, I went through more hazing to join my current acapella group than my fraternity. In my experience, non-brothers are more likely to binge drink because they don't get access to alcohol as often (though this is also an argument to lower the drinking age).

This is also ignoring the clear benefits of being in a fraternity. At my school, it's required of fraternities to hold study hours for brothers, and fraternities usually have access to class resources that help brothers exceed in their courses. Also, I'm not close with all of my brothers in fraternity, but I always know they will be there for me if I need help, and I'm always going to be there for them. Fraternities encourages a group mentality that is immensely helpful later on in people's careers.

I haven't even mentioned the impact that fraternities and sororities have in their college's communities. Our vice president recently informed us that we successfully completed over 2,000 hours of service as a whole in our fraternity. At my school, this is the norm for fraternities and sororities, not the exception.

Are there fraternities out there that are sketchy and deserve to be shut down because they encourage criminal behavior? Absolutely. But don't take out your personal anger because some frat bro made fun of you once, or because you didn't get a bid. And especially don't blame Greek life as a whole for problems on campus. There's a damn good reason why almost every single president has been a part of Greek life when they were in college.

Amherst is making a colossal mistake.

Agreed with everything you said,

Yes there are bad apples in fraternities that engage in some of the bad  behaviors you mention but they are a minority. Although hazing is problematic with many chapters, fraternities are by far not the only organizations on campus that do this. For example, sororities and traditionally minority fraternities have been known to engage in some pretty serious hazing as well. The same goes for other organizations like band, choir, etc.  And this is just a big as a problem for them is it is for the stereotypical "all white male" fraternities.

Hell at my school there was a academic honor's society had been disbanded for hazing.

Frats being alot of benefits as a whole to the student body. They engage in providing a place for people to belong, they raise a ton of money for charity and often have the most successful alumni among other benefits.

So I def agree with you bBall on this one!

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

This is also ignoring the clear benefits of being in a fraternity.

Frankly, those statistics are the type that are prone to suffer heavily from self-selection bias.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Are the people saying "Oh you guys are just sore because you failed to get a bid" aware that the vast majority of college students don't join Greek organizations or even bid? The percentage of students with membership is in the single digits. And it's steadily declining. Yes most students realize that in college you can get drunk and party without paying money and doing humiliating things to hang out with a bunch of uber-douchebags. I remember back when Facebook was college only and full of "groups" and how many anti-frat groups there were. Most students want nothing to do with frats. Is there possibly any reasons for that?

FWIW I used to post on a forum where membership in a frat was grounds for banning. The quote from the admin (a female by the way) on the policy was something like "If you belong to such a group, you are f[inks]ing trash and we want nothing to do with you." It was probably at least partially joking because of how unlikely it'd be that anyone who posted there would be a frat member anyway ("scene" board after all) but I think the point was made very well.

[Foucaulf]

For those who did read the article, you would notice that Amherst disaffiliated itself from the Greek structure thirty years ago. The recent decision is just a statement trying to make credible threats to students if they do try to start one. In terms of sending a clear signal I'm glad they did this.

If I had to give the coldest, econspeak-y reason for why I oppose fraternities, it is the following. People can give reasons for how Greek societies can be beneficial, but would it not be better if we had a proper division of labour - those who do charity work in Greek societies start campus affiliates of charities, party planners in Greek societies plan their own parties, etc.? The problem with the Greek society, unlike other student organizations constituted around a clear goal, is that it is constituted as a social group first. Whatever activities Greek societies organize incur transaction costs, due to needless social processes within the group, that can be avoided by splitting them up.

[Boris]

Are the people saying "Oh you guys are just sore because you failed to get a bid" aware that the vast majority of college students don't join Greek organizations or even bid? The percentage of students with membership is in the single digits. And it's steadily declining. Yes most students realize that in college you can get drunk and party without paying money and doing humiliating things to hang out with a bunch of uber-douchebags. I remember back when Facebook was college only and full of "groups" and how many anti-frat groups there were. Most students want nothing to do with frats. Is there possibly any reasons for that?

FWIW I used to post on a forum where membership in a frat was grounds for banning. The quote from the admin (a female by the way) on the policy was something like "If you belong to such a group, you are f[inks]ing trash and we want nothing to do with you." It was probably at least partially joking because of how unlikely it'd be that anyone who posted there would be a frat member anyway ("scene" board after all) but I think the point was made very well.

There's really no point in arguing because everyone went to different universities and has different anecdotal experiences which probably only serve to confirm preconceived biases. Frats at 'bama probably manifest a lot differently than frats at the University of Illinois; we had an openly gay social chair throughout my tenure, and racial minorities were well represented throughout leadership positions (granted we're all whitewashed suburbanites, but it's not as if you hang out with a very racially diverse crowd anyway...)

And FTR, this former 'frat boy' may (>50%) be attending American Football's reunion show this fall! So suck it, scene forumites

[Boris]

btw, does anyone here how to look up Illinois precinct data by address? I'd be highly interested in how UIUC's 'frat row' precinct voted in 2004, 2008, and 2012!

[Badger]

Excellent. Any blow against bro-dom is worthwhile.

Don't take a metaphorical piss on those that might actually enjoy their lives. I would, however, be interesting to hear your actual opposition to people being productive, taking leadership roles, having to learn codes of conduct, running an organization, and all the other things that come with being part of such an organization.

In any case, this is a great miscarriage of justice, the likes of which has not been seen since--probably--Roe v. Wade. They can all go to Hell.

All of which can and are done by people who have nothing to do with Greek Life.

In the civilian life, the type of situations that fraternities deal with are unlikely to be comparable to some rando organization like the Creative Arts Guild.

Like what? Drinking games involving dropping a maraschino cherry in a glass out of your buttcrack?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

In regards to the bit about low membership, I can actually back that up at my alma matter, as it actually gives membership numbers:
http://www.mnsu.edu/activities/greek/fraternities.html
http://www.mnsu.edu/activities/greek/sororities.html

It adds up to 190 frat members and 212 sorority members. That's 402 total. And the university enrollment, even limited to just undergrads, is 13,461...that's not even 3%.

Yes Greeks are such a big f[inks]ing deal at universities.

[Simfan34]

Jesus Christ I've had enough of this.