Marijuana Legalization Bill

[StevenNick]

This is a great bill.  Let's admit we can't control something, then pass a law whose purpose is to control the thing we just legalized because we can't control it.

Oh wait, no, that's not a good idea at all.

With drug use falling consistently over the past decade and change, I see no reason to walk away from stigmatizing and legalize this destructive substance.

Exactly, it's like saying that just because we can't ever hope to stop rape, and prosecuting rapists is just costing us so damn much money, we should just legalize it, tax it, and be done with it.

The fact that commentators in this thread are suggesting measures that would limit the amount of marijuana that can legally be possessed and make possession of marijuana or being under the influence of marijuana an aggravating circumstance in the commission of a felany is a tacit admission that smoking marijuana is an undesirable thing.

Apart from the health risks, cigarette smoking does not play any negative effect on society.  Cigarettes do not alter a person's behavior.  Even alcohol is something that can be ingested, and usually is, in amounts that do not in any way inhibit one's judgment or ability to think rationally.  No one smokes pot unless they are intending to get high.  That is certainly not the case with alcohol.  At the very least we need to be aware of exactly what we are doing when we legalize marijuana.  We are essentially endorsing the use of a carcinogenic, mind-altering substance that will be consumed for the sole purpose of intoxication.  This could have very serious unintended consequences and it will almost certainly lead to legalization of other illegal substances.

I also agree with Bono's comment that this bill is unconstitutional as it requires that the regions take a certain course of action.  The federal government has no right to require the regions to make any action illegal or to legalize any currently illegal action.

[Hermit]

Exactly, it's like saying that just because we can't ever hope to stop rape, and prosecuting rapists is just costing us so damn much money, we should just legalize it, tax it, and be done with it.

An incredibly fallacious argument. Rape is, by definition, harmful to others.

[Keystone Phil]

Exactly, it's like saying that just because we can't ever hope to stop rape, and prosecuting rapists is just costing us so damn much money, we should just legalize it, tax it, and be done with it.

An incredibly fallacious argument. Rape is, by definition, harmful to others.

And the effects of marijuana aren't harmful?

[JohnFKennedy]

Exactly, it's like saying that just because we can't ever hope to stop rape, and prosecuting rapists is just costing us so damn much money, we should just legalize it, tax it, and be done with it.

An incredibly fallacious argument. Rape is, by definition, harmful to others.

And the effects of marijuana aren't harmful?

Not to those not using it.

I am ambivalent on this bill but I thought I would chime in with that point.

[The Dowager Mod]

I do not support the legalization of dope unless prescribed for a medical condition.

[Hermit]

Exactly, it's like saying that just because we can't ever hope to stop rape, and prosecuting rapists is just costing us so damn much money, we should just legalize it, tax it, and be done with it.

An incredibly fallacious argument. Rape is, by definition, harmful to others.

And the effects of marijuana aren't harmful?

Not to those not using it.

Exactly. I believe the long term effects of marijuana on the user is a point of some debate in the scientific/medical world. Also, I'd like to point out that marijuana is frequently shown to be less addictive than nicotine, caffeine, and alcohol.

[Keystone Phil]

Exactly, it's like saying that just because we can't ever hope to stop rape, and prosecuting rapists is just costing us so damn much money, we should just legalize it, tax it, and be done with it.

An incredibly fallacious argument. Rape is, by definition, harmful to others.

And the effects of marijuana aren't harmful?

Not to those not using it.

Exactly. I believe the long term effects of marijuana on the user is a point of some debate in the scientific/medical world. Also, I'd like to point out that marijuana is frequently shown to be less addictive than nicotine, caffeine, and alcohol.

How can you say that marijuana is not harmful to those not using it? When someone is under the influence of marijuana, they can pose great harm to others around them. Now I know some will say "Well why not outlaw beer? If someone is drunk they can harm someone." While that is true, there is a responsible way to drink alcohol. I don't think we can say the same for marijuana. I ask that the Senate rejects this bill.

[Hermit]

How can you say that marijuana is not harmful to those not using it? When someone is under the influence of marijuana, they can pose great harm to others around them. Now I know some will say "Well why not outlaw beer? If someone is drunk they can harm someone." While that is true, there is a responsible way to drink alcohol. I don't think we can say the same for marijuana. I ask that the Senate rejects this bill.

Just as there's a resbonsible way to drink alcohol, take cough syrup, use perscription medication etc. there's a responsible way to use marijuana.

[Keystone Phil]

How can you say that marijuana is not harmful to those not using it? When someone is under the influence of marijuana, they can pose great harm to others around them. Now I know some will say "Well why not outlaw beer? If someone is drunk they can harm someone." While that is true, there is a responsible way to drink alcohol. I don't think we can say the same for marijuana. I ask that the Senate rejects this bill.

Just as there's a resbonsible way to drink alcohol, take cough syrup, use perscription medication etc. there's a responsible way to use marijuana.

I think the effects of this drug are too harmful to society. Legalizing marijuana would be like lowering the drinking age. NJ lowered the drinking age to 18 and it was an absolute failure. Legalizing this drug would be even more of a disaster. We cannot allow this to happen.

[Hermit]

I think the effects of this drug are too harmful to society. Legalizing marijuana would be like lowering the drinking age. NJ lowered the drinking age to 18 and it was an absolute failure. Legalizing this drug would be even more of a disaster. We cannot allow this to happen.

Legalizing it would be more akin to raising the drinking age. The only way for people to get marijuana now is from street dealers who will sell to anyone, regardless of age. If legalised, street dealership would drop off (how often have you heard of people selling bathtub gin and smuggled cigarettes in allyways?), and the in most places, the only way to get marijuana would be from stores - stores which would only sell to those that are of age.

[Keystone Phil]

I think the effects of this drug are too harmful to society. Legalizing marijuana would be like lowering the drinking age. NJ lowered the drinking age to 18 and it was an absolute failure. Legalizing this drug would be even more of a disaster. We cannot allow this to happen.

Legalizing it would be more akin to raising the drinking age. The only way for people to get marijuana now is from street dealers who will sell to anyone, regardless of age. If legalised, street dealership would drop off (how often have you heard of people selling bathtub gin and smuggled cigarettes in allyways?), and the in most places, the only way to get marijuana would be from stores - stores which would only sell to those that are of age.

Do you know how many kids get cigarettes in stores? And I'm supposed to believe stores will sell marijuana only to people that "are of age?"

It a dangerous step that we won't take.

[ilikeverin]

No!  No!  No!  Please no!

[Hermit]

Do you know how many kids get cigarettes in stores? And I'm supposed to believe stores will sell marijuana only to people that "are of age?"

So a few infractions that will hopefully be punished is reason enough to make sure marijuana stays illegal, and is sold to <i>anyone</i> by dealers?

[badnarikin04]

Woooo!!!!

Looks like one of the things I wanted to work on is being worked on before I even start working!

Props to IrishDem for giving this a jumpstart!

Now about that education....that might be a problem.

[Defarge]

I too am ambivalent concerning this bill.  I will watch the debate on this bill with great interest and will vote based on the merit of each side.  Were the vote held today, I would abstain, simply because I don't know where I myself stand.

[StevenNick]

I think the effects of this drug are too harmful to society. Legalizing marijuana would be like lowering the drinking age. NJ lowered the drinking age to 18 and it was an absolute failure. Legalizing this drug would be even more of a disaster. We cannot allow this to happen.

Legalizing it would be more akin to raising the drinking age. The only way for people to get marijuana now is from street dealers who will sell to anyone, regardless of age. If legalised, street dealership would drop off (how often have you heard of people selling bathtub gin and smuggled cigarettes in allyways?), and the in most places, the only way to get marijuana would be from stores - stores which would only sell to those that are of age.

I think it's incredibly naive to suggest that the moment we legalize marijuana we'll magically be able to regulate it's use.  That hasn't been the case with alcohol or cigarettes, why would it be the case for marijuana?  Rather, legalizing marijuana would most likely lead to an increase in it's use, particularly among teenagers.  There are plenty of teenagers who do not smoke marijuana right now because it's illegal.  As soon as marijuana is legalized, there will be no practical difference between smoking marijuana and smoking cigarettes, therefore we can reasonably assume that more people will do it.

[Peter]

Beyond the obvious political arguments over this bill, there are some servious constitutional issues with it as well; Should it come to be passed I would recommend that the President exercise his veto on the grounds that this bill ignores the Constitution:

1. You cannot make the Regions accept the sale of marijuana in their borders - they have the power to regulate commerce within their region, it would extend to stopping the sale of marijuana.
2. Clause 3: Any Atlasian imprisoned on a marijuana related charged shall be released from prison albeit state or federal is unconstitutional prima facie because the federal government has no control over state prisons.

[John Dibble]

I think the effects of this drug are too harmful to society. Legalizing marijuana would be like lowering the drinking age. NJ lowered the drinking age to 18 and it was an absolute failure. Legalizing this drug would be even more of a disaster. We cannot allow this to happen.

Legalizing it would be more akin to raising the drinking age. The only way for people to get marijuana now is from street dealers who will sell to anyone, regardless of age. If legalised, street dealership would drop off (how often have you heard of people selling bathtub gin and smuggled cigarettes in allyways?), and the in most places, the only way to get marijuana would be from stores - stores which would only sell to those that are of age.

I think it's incredibly naive to suggest that the moment we legalize marijuana we'll magically be able to regulate it's use.  That hasn't been the case with alcohol or cigarettes, why would it be the case for marijuana?  Rather, legalizing marijuana would most likely lead to an increase in it's use, particularly among teenagers.  There are plenty of teenagers who do not smoke marijuana right now because it's illegal.  As soon as marijuana is legalized, there will be no practical difference between smoking marijuana and smoking cigarettes, therefore we can reasonably assume that more people will do it.

Nobody is suggesting it would instantly clean up the streets. It would help over time for that.

As for teenage use, I doubt it would matter. Teenagers that don't do it because it's illegal would still not do it because it would be illegal for them. The legal age could be 18 or 21, doesn't matter. Use will probably increase, but who cares? Marijuana is not that harmful, and is most often used recreationally rather than abusively. If you are that worried about it, remember that we won't have to spend as much money on the drug war - we can spend some of that money on educational programs against drugs instead.

[Jake]

Most kids that smoke get cigarettes from their older friends, why will pot be any different?

[John Dibble]

Facts on Marijuana

Facts on Alcohol

Comparing the two, why is one legal and the other not?

[StevenNick]

Facts on Marijuana

Facts on Alcohol

Comparing the two, why is one legal and the other not?

Because many, many people drink alcohol with no intention of ever getting drunk.  No one smokes marijuana unless they want to get high.

[TeePee4Prez]

Facts on Marijuana

Facts on Alcohol

Comparing the two, why is one legal and the other not?

Good point!

[John Dibble]

Facts on Marijuana

Facts on Alcohol

Comparing the two, why is one legal and the other not?

Because many, many people drink alcohol with no intention of ever getting drunk.  No one smokes marijuana unless they want to get high.

A poor case. People drink alcohol to get a buzz - aka to get high. A different high, yes, but still to get high. Also, the fact that people smoke pot to get high says they are more likely to know they are high, as opposed to drunks who may be unaware of their states.

[The Duke]

On the alcohol-marijuana issue.

Don't worry about being consistent.

Just worry about being right.

[John Dibble]

On the alcohol-marijuana issue.

Don't worry about being consistent.

Just worry about being right.

Justice must be consistent, as should the laws guiding justice. Is it just to arrest someone, throw them in jail, and revoke many of their rights for the mere possession of marijuana? Yet if someone possesses alcohol it is legal, regardless of the fact that they are more likely to cause harm than the users of pot.

Inconsistency oft shows hypocrisy. I have yet to see a case where hypocrisy was right. It is pretty hypocritical in my view that the drug that causes far more problems is legal and the one that causes less is not. Having seen that prohibition of both substances creates new problems without really solving the old ones(even making them worse in some cases) I can only say that it would be right to legalize marijuana in order to alleviate the problems of prohibition, since the inherent problems of both drugs are really can't be solved.