U.S. support for LGBTQ+ rights is declining after decades of support. Here’s why

[Agafin]

Link to the PBS article
Link to the PRRI report

The most interesting part here is that the change is been driven largely by young republicans. They went from being two thirds (65%) in favor of gay marriage to just under half (49%) and also underwent similar changes in their support for anti-discrimination laws.

I honestly think that the LGB portion of the acronym is suffering from collateral damage by association. It is the 'TQ+' which is almost certainly driving this decline.

[afleitch]

Link to the PBS article
Link to the PRRI report

The most interesting part here is that the change is been driven largely by young republicans. They went from being two thirds (65%) in favor of gay marriage to just under half (49%) and also underwent similar changes in their support for anti-discrimination laws.

I honestly think that the LGB portion of the acronym is suffering from collateral damage by association. It is the 'TQ+' which is almost certainly driving this decline.

I think self-radicalisation by young Republicans who refuse to touch grass is driving the decline in support amongst young Republicans.

[Dan the Roman]

Link to the PBS article
Link to the PRRI report

The most interesting part here is that the change is been driven largely by young republicans. They went from being two thirds (65%) in favor of gay marriage to just under half (49%) and also underwent similar changes in their support for anti-discrimination laws.

I honestly think that the LGB portion of the acronym is suffering from collateral damage by association. It is the 'TQ+' which is almost certainly driving this decline.

Yes but also as is evident from the other thread self-selection means contact theory has broken down.

The LGBs(and a few transmedicalist Ts) that are on Right have seen a total breakdown in relations with everyone else to such a degree that they are functionally reinforcing all the negative narratives rather than combating them.

I don't think this group is important independently but just as anti-Zionist jews played a disproportionate role in the radicalization of the Left against Israel by giving "permission" to adopt positions without fear of being antisemitic, the fact you now have a number of LGBs(+ folks like Blaire White) sufficient that "everyone knows at least one or two" who are willing to echoed this stuff gives permission for everyone else to adopt much more anti LGBT positions with the belief they are showing solidarity with their friends rather than harming them, and that their target is actually the left. To give an example, the ncreasingly prominence of Trans issues(misgendering, workplace accommodations) combined with the fact that due to proximity LGB folks would feel the brunt of those policies means many(and I have seen this) will not only oppose them(see the UK conversion therapy ban) but suggest that support is homophobic. Now people here will dismiss that, but for those otherwise inclined to oppose those policies but fearful of appearing homophonic they now have a permission structure. Which is why the argument "youth transition is gay conversion therapy" has taken off. Because it allows rightwingers to both adopt the policy they wish to anyway and insist they are actually the compassionate ones.

This is a marked departure from the 2000s or early 2010s when Gay Republicans would advocate for SSM among their social groups.  Now they are as apt to spread horror stories. Note that Trump's assistent secretary of education was lesbian and was one of the individuals at the forefront of trans sports in school issue.

At the same time, the mainstream LGBT organizations have entirely reinvented themselves as at the forefront of leftwing/democratic partisan politics.

Why shouldn't a partisan Republican regardless of sexuality see GLAAD/HRC/ACLU as enemies ? Because frankly they are. They have adopted an "intersectional" approach which means they will be violently opposed to even rightwingers who did support them on issues.



.

[Landslide Lyndon]

It's declining because Republicans decided to declare open war on trans people. Why did they do it?
Because Republicans always need a minority to use as political foil and to instill fear and resentment into their voters.

[Dan the Roman]

It's declining because Republicans decided to declare open war on trans people. Why did they do it?
Because Republicans always need a minority to use as political foil and to instill fear and resentment into their voters.

This is negative polarization in action.

No conspiracy was involved. Or insofar as people claim to be part of one, they flatter themselves in order to advance a grift.

Everyone people on the Right hate began aggressively pushing Trans-inclusive stuff in their internal fights, with the result that left-wing orthodoxy became identified with it. Once it did, anyone who was hostile to the Left became hostile to it as well, unless they had preexisting positions which were strongly held.

[Horus]

It's declining because Republicans decided to declare open war on trans people. Why did they do it?
Because Republicans always need a minority to use as political foil and to instill fear and resentment into their voters.

This is negative polarization in action.

No conspiracy was involved. Or insofar as people claim to be part of one, they flatter themselves in order to advance a grift.

Everyone people on the Right hate began aggressively pushing Trans-inclusive stuff in their internal fights, with the result that left-wing orthodoxy became identified with it. Once it did, anyone who was hostile to the Left became hostile to it as well, unless they had preexisting positions which were strongly held.

I think it was you saying the future Republican party will be pro gay and lesbian but anti LGBT. While this may sound like an oxymoron, it makes perfect sense to me. A lot of people are tired of all the excessive TQ+ stuff. Some of the most vocal "TERFS" are lesbians.

Hell, if you asked me how I felt about the self identified "queer" community you'd probably get neutrality at best.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Not surprising since young Republicans tend to be more radical than other age brackets, mainly because they grew up in the age of MAGA where hatred and bigotry became publicly accepted and encouraged by the right wing.

[DaleCooper]

Link to the PBS article
Link to the PRRI report

The most interesting part here is that the change is been driven largely by young republicans. They went from being two thirds (65%) in favor of gay marriage to just under half (49%) and also underwent similar changes in their support for anti-discrimination laws.

I honestly think that the LGB portion of the acronym is suffering from collateral damage by association. It is the 'TQ+' which is almost certainly driving this decline.

Young Republicans are turning against everyone who is any letter of LGBTQ+ (I hate that acronym) because propaganda aimed at younger Republicans is virulently anti-gay and anti-transgender at the moment. It is arguably much worse than Fox News has been in over a decade.

[DaleCooper]

Not surprising since young Republicans tend to be more radical than other age brackets, mainly because they grew up in the age of MAGA where hatred and bigotry became publicly accepted and encouraged by the right wing.

They're probably more racist than most older Republicans too. Some of the racist stuff I heard from old conservatives 20 years ago (people who would be well over 100 now if they were alive) doesn't even compare to the Nazi-esque school shooter language I hear from Joe Rogan fans under 35 today.

[Agafin]

Not surprising since young Republicans tend to be more radical than other age brackets, mainly because they grew up in the age of MAGA where hatred and bigotry became publicly accepted and encouraged by the right wing.

They're probably more racist than most older Republicans too. Some of the racist stuff I heard from old conservatives 20 years ago (people who would be well over 100 now if they were alive) doesn't even compare to the Nazi-esque school shooter language I hear from Joe Rogan fans under 35 today.

Young people just seem to be very radical these days, left or right. Just look at the borderline pro-Hamas positions of a lot of the young left. Perhaps the impact of growing up in the social media age has fried their brains? Hopefully the 50-60% of young people who are not yet politically active will be more moderate once they start voting.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Link to the PBS article
Link to the PRRI report

The most interesting part here is that the change is been driven largely by young republicans. They went from being two thirds (65%) in favor of gay marriage to just under half (49%) and also underwent similar changes in their support for anti-discrimination laws.

I honestly think that the LGB portion of the acronym is suffering from collateral damage by association. It is the 'TQ+' which is almost certainly driving this decline.

Young Republicans are turning against everyone who is any letter of LGBTQ+ (I hate that acronym) because propaganda aimed at younger Republicans is virulently anti-gay and anti-transgender at the moment. It is arguably much worse than Fox News has been in over a decade.

it's not just Fox News. All these anti-woke youtube channels are constantly brainwashing younger people that women, gays, and minorities are taking roles in movies that belonged to straight white guys, unions are bad, their masculinity is threatened by the #MeToo movement, etc.

[jojoju1998]

Link to the PBS article
Link to the PRRI report

The most interesting part here is that the change is been driven largely by young republicans. They went from being two thirds (65%) in favor of gay marriage to just under half (49%) and also underwent similar changes in their support for anti-discrimination laws.

I honestly think that the LGB portion of the acronym is suffering from collateral damage by association. It is the 'TQ+' which is almost certainly driving this decline.

Young Republicans are turning against everyone who is any letter of LGBTQ+ (I hate that acronym) because propaganda aimed at younger Republicans is virulently anti-gay and anti-transgender at the moment. It is arguably much worse than Fox News has been in over a decade.

it's not just Fox News. All these anti-woke youtube channels are constantly brainwashing younger people that women, gays, and minorities are taking roles in movies that belonged to straight white guys, unions are bad, their masculinity is threatened by the #MeToo movement, etc.

It seems to be a similar trend in South Korea, and they might be worse than us.

[ProgressiveModerate]

Not surprising since young Republicans tend to be more radical than other age brackets, mainly because they grew up in the age of MAGA where hatred and bigotry became publicly accepted and encouraged by the right wing.

They're probably more racist than most older Republicans too. Some of the racist stuff I heard from old conservatives 20 years ago (people who would be well over 100 now if they were alive) doesn't even compare to the Nazi-esque school shooter language I hear from Joe Rogan fans under 35 today.

Young people just seem to be very radical these days, left or right. Just look at the borderline pro-Hamas positions of a lot of the young left. Perhaps the impact of growing up in the social media age has fried their brains? Hopefully the 50-60% of young people who are not yet politically active will be more moderate once they start voting.

I also hope the people who are currently "brainwashed" will grow out of it once they enter the real world, and actually ahve to pay for food housing, look for jobs, ect.

[ProgressiveModerate]

Link to the PBS article
Link to the PRRI report

The most interesting part here is that the change is been driven largely by young republicans. They went from being two thirds (65%) in favor of gay marriage to just under half (49%) and also underwent similar changes in their support for anti-discrimination laws.

I honestly think that the LGB portion of the acronym is suffering from collateral damage by association. It is the 'TQ+' which is almost certainly driving this decline.

I think self-radicalisation by young Republicans who refuse to touch grass is driving the decline in support amongst young Republicans.

Honestly this is the theme I tend to notice with younger people who are radicals far-left or far-right - they tend to be terminally online "loosers" who don't even want to make much of effort to put themselves in the real world.

Might sound hypocritical from me, a guy who has like 14k posts on this forum, but at least I try to put myself out there in the real world and am not just scrolling through TikTok and Instagram reels for 10 hours a day.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Link to the PBS article
Link to the PRRI report

The most interesting part here is that the change is been driven largely by young republicans. They went from being two thirds (65%) in favor of gay marriage to just under half (49%) and also underwent similar changes in their support for anti-discrimination laws.

I honestly think that the LGB portion of the acronym is suffering from collateral damage by association. It is the 'TQ+' which is almost certainly driving this decline.

Young Republicans are turning against everyone who is any letter of LGBTQ+ (I hate that acronym) because propaganda aimed at younger Republicans is virulently anti-gay and anti-transgender at the moment. It is arguably much worse than Fox News has been in over a decade.

it's not just Fox News. All these anti-woke youtube channels are constantly brainwashing younger people that women, gays, and minorities are taking roles in movies that belonged to straight white guys, unions are bad, their masculinity is threatened by the #MeToo movement, etc.

It’s hilarious how much you defend recent Disney movies and get mad when people don’t like them .

[jojoju1998]

Link to the PBS article
Link to the PRRI report

The most interesting part here is that the change is been driven largely by young republicans. They went from being two thirds (65%) in favor of gay marriage to just under half (49%) and also underwent similar changes in their support for anti-discrimination laws.

I honestly think that the LGB portion of the acronym is suffering from collateral damage by association. It is the 'TQ+' which is almost certainly driving this decline.

Young Republicans are turning against everyone who is any letter of LGBTQ+ (I hate that acronym) because propaganda aimed at younger Republicans is virulently anti-gay and anti-transgender at the moment. It is arguably much worse than Fox News has been in over a decade.

it's not just Fox News. All these anti-woke youtube channels are constantly brainwashing younger people that women, gays, and minorities are taking roles in movies that belonged to straight white guys, unions are bad, their masculinity is threatened by the #MeToo movement, etc.

It’s hilarious how much you defend recent Disney movies and get mad when people don’t like them .

Barbie was the most feminist, explitcitly feminist movie in the last 20 years, and it made over a billion dollars last year.

[Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️]

The most interesting part here is that the change is been driven largely by young republicans. They went from being two thirds (65%) in favor of gay marriage to just under half (49%) and also underwent similar changes in their support for anti-discrimination laws.

An alternative interpretation could be that this is another example showing polls are having increasing difficulty getting good representative samples of young voters. This would be consistent with the crosstab issues that seem to be occurring in Presidential election polls. If there is a sampling issue, you would expect it to show up both in those polls and also in issue-related polls like this.

So it is interesting that apparently the source of the decline they measure is specifically from younger respondents.

Of course, it is possible that some (or even all) of the decline could be real. But this is an alternative interpretation and possibility as well.

[Landslide Lyndon]

It’s hilarious how much you defend recent Disney movies and get mad when people don’t like them .

The only one who mentioned Disney here is you. If you are so oblivious to the deleterious effect these grifters have on impressionable young men then you are as clueless as your favorite politician, Meatball Ron.

[Dan the Roman]

It's declining because Republicans decided to declare open war on trans people. Why did they do it?
Because Republicans always need a minority to use as political foil and to instill fear and resentment into their voters.

This is negative polarization in action.

No conspiracy was involved. Or insofar as people claim to be part of one, they flatter themselves in order to advance a grift.

Everyone people on the Right hate began aggressively pushing Trans-inclusive stuff in their internal fights, with the result that left-wing orthodoxy became identified with it. Once it did, anyone who was hostile to the Left became hostile to it as well, unless they had preexisting positions which were strongly held.

I think it was you saying the future Republican party will be pro gay and lesbian but anti LGBT. While this may sound like an oxymoron, it makes perfect sense to me. A lot of people are tired of all the excessive TQ+ stuff. Some of the most vocal "TERFS" are lesbians.

Hell, if you asked me how I felt about the self identified "queer" community you'd probably get neutrality at best.

Q is always going to be on the outs, because it is either "Queer" which is a word developed in contrast to something else, or "questioning" which is also subjective.

What we saw with Gays and Lesbians is that as the first post-equality generation grew up, conservative gays and lesbians suddenly had a choice. Previously they had to choose to be gay or conservative, gay or rural southern. While some still face that choice, there are a lot who don't. This means there are kids of Republican, Christian families whose parents will shrug, react to social media posts with boyfriends/girlfriends, and invite them to family events. Now, rather than it being conservative family and friends making unreasonable demands that they cease being gay/lesbian, it is activists who are making the unreasonable demand they disown and denounce family and friends who have accepted them on the basis that they have the "wrong politics."  They will pick their family/friends, and never forgive the activists for forcing them to choose, not to mention doing so with threats of social ostracism.

I think the T will move in the same direction albeit with a split. Those who feel being Trans is about being the wrong gender will break from those who believe there is no such thing as gender. The obstacles here are not political so much as technological. I suspect if you could create a medical device that would change someone's sex perfectly, including allowing for reproduction, that was reversible, then the opposition would drop to 15% or less.

That would fulfill the dream of Trans individuals who want to be indistinguishable, in effect to vanish, but it would be a nightmare for those activists for whom visibility is the point. That group isn't inherent to the Trans movement any more than it was to the gay movement. Rather among Gen Z and millennials, the radical anti-assimilationists generally identify as Trans/Queer/NB+.

The problem with the concept of LGBTQ+ is not that it is identified with T rather than LGB. It is that it the acronym is identified with anti assimilationists within every group who have seized control of the advocacy groups under the guise of promoting Trans issues.

You can kind of see that ideological evolution with the way Contrapoints was pushed aside as an LGBTQ+ icon because she passed too well. The point of much of LGBTQ+ ideology/activism right now is not to gain acceptance for those who pass, but rather to attack the concept of passing as oppressive. This is what brings it into conflict with all social structures, but in particular with anyone who wants to preserve them.

The easier it is for Trans individuals to pass the more this current ideological trajectory will become anti rather than pro-trans. I suspect if the perfect transition device existed, many activists would insist requiring the use of the device for Trans women to participate in women's sports, would be Transphobic.

[jojoju1998]

Link to the PBS article
Link to the PRRI report

The most interesting part here is that the change is been driven largely by young republicans. They went from being two thirds (65%) in favor of gay marriage to just under half (49%) and also underwent similar changes in their support for anti-discrimination laws.

I honestly think that the LGB portion of the acronym is suffering from collateral damage by association. It is the 'TQ+' which is almost certainly driving this decline.

Young Republicans are turning against everyone who is any letter of LGBTQ+ (I hate that acronym) because propaganda aimed at younger Republicans is virulently anti-gay and anti-transgender at the moment. It is arguably much worse than Fox News has been in over a decade.

it's not just Fox News. All these anti-woke youtube channels are constantly brainwashing younger people that women, gays, and minorities are taking roles in movies that belonged to straight white guys, unions are bad, their masculinity is threatened by the #MeToo movement, etc.

It’s hilarious how much you defend recent Disney movies and get mad when people don’t like them .

Barbie was the most feminist, explitcitly feminist movie in the last 20 years, and it made over a billion dollars last year.

Futhermore, there was also Everything Everywhere All at Once which was a movie about Asian culture and all that, it wasn't just a box office hit, but also won best picture at the oscars. And don't forget about Parasite, the first non english language film to win best picture, EVER.




I have no freaking idea where all this talk about how woke movies are bad, or doing terrible is coming from.

Literally. Good movies are out there, and they have done well, and some might be very woke. And that's okay.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Futhermore, there was also Everything Everywhere All at Once which was a movie about Asian culture and all that, it wasn't just a box office hit, but also won best picture at the oscars. And don't forget about Parasite, the first non english language film to win best picture, EVER.

I have no freaking idea where all this talk about how woke movies are bad, or doing terrible is coming from.

Literally. Good movies are out there, and they have done well, and some might be very woke. And that's okay.

I ignored their existence too until a couple of years ago. They flourished during the pandemic and now they have become the biggest youtube channels about movie criticism with over a million subscribers.
They got so big that even Piers Morgan called them on his show to trash on the Oscars and Hollywood's "wokeness".

 

[jojoju1998]

Futhermore, there was also Everything Everywhere All at Once which was a movie about Asian culture and all that, it wasn't just a box office hit, but also won best picture at the oscars. And don't forget about Parasite, the first non english language film to win best picture, EVER.

I have no freaking idea where all this talk about how woke movies are bad, or doing terrible is coming from.

Literally. Good movies are out there, and they have done well, and some might be very woke. And that's okay.

I ignored their existence too until a couple of years ago. They flourished during the pandemic and now they have become the biggest youtube channels about movie criticism with over a million subscribers.
They got so big that even Piers Morgan called them on his show to trash on the Oscars and Hollywood's "wokeness".

 

The US is turning into the Western version of South Korea.

[Dan the Roman]

Futhermore, there was also Everything Everywhere All at Once which was a movie about Asian culture and all that, it wasn't just a box office hit, but also won best picture at the oscars. And don't forget about Parasite, the first non english language film to win best picture, EVER.

I have no freaking idea where all this talk about how woke movies are bad, or doing terrible is coming from.

Literally. Good movies are out there, and they have done well, and some might be very woke. And that's okay.

I ignored their existence too until a couple of years ago. They flourished during the pandemic and now they have become the biggest youtube channels about movie criticism with over a million subscribers.
They got so big that even Piers Morgan called them on his show to trash on the Oscars and Hollywood's "wokeness".

 

The death of independent enthusiast media in gaming/entertainment is the real problem.

It has zero to do with a Woke plot. Rather as Woke = Corporate HR, what we have seen is the death of every major video game/entertainment outlet that is not owned by a retailer/distributor/publisher. So if the coverage sounds like it is echoing a "woke" corporate HR seminar, that is because it is.

This has resulted in the death of criticism in mainstream outlets which largely exist for marketing.

Consequently, the market for criticism has been seized by the Right. Not entirely. In isolation, there are leftwing influencers willing to say that corporate slop is terrible. But the marketing strategy of conflating criticism with attacks on diversity has worked spectacularly, not in deterring criticism from the right, but in forcing left-wing critics into silence lest they be seen as joining a hate movement.

The problem is that all this PR genius cannot change the fact that many of the underlying products are awful, and only one side is willing to "explain" why.

It's not just media. The left has fallen into a trap in the cultural sphere of becoming the fanatical defenders of the existing power structure. We have the first Democratic Socialist movement in history dedicated to insisting that Big Pharma and pre-Elon tech management can do no wrong, and that Jeff Bezos is defending democracy from dying in darkness with the Washington Post.

[jojoju1998]

Futhermore, there was also Everything Everywhere All at Once which was a movie about Asian culture and all that, it wasn't just a box office hit, but also won best picture at the oscars. And don't forget about Parasite, the first non english language film to win best picture, EVER.

I have no freaking idea where all this talk about how woke movies are bad, or doing terrible is coming from.

Literally. Good movies are out there, and they have done well, and some might be very woke. And that's okay.

I ignored their existence too until a couple of years ago. They flourished during the pandemic and now they have become the biggest youtube channels about movie criticism with over a million subscribers.
They got so big that even Piers Morgan called them on his show to trash on the Oscars and Hollywood's "wokeness".

 

The death of independent enthusiast media in gaming/entertainment is the real problem.

It has zero to do with a Woke plot. Rather as Woke = Corporate HR, what we have seen is the death of every major video game/entertainment outlet that is not owned by a retailer/distributor/publisher. So if the coverage sounds like it is echoing a "woke" corporate HR seminar, that is because it is.

This has resulted in the death of criticism in mainstream outlets which largely exist for marketing.

Consequently, the market for criticism has been seized by the Right. Not entirely. In isolation, there are leftwing influencers willing to say that corporate slop is terrible. But the marketing strategy of conflating criticism with attacks on diversity has worked spectacularly, not in deterring criticism from the right, but in forcing left-wing critics into silence lest they be seen as joining a hate movement.

The problem is that all this PR genius cannot change the fact that many of the underlying products are awful, and only one side is willing to provide an explanation as to why.

It sounds...... similar to South Korea. I keep on saying that, but I've been reading lately on the the socio/economic dynamics of that country, and I'm like.... it's very similar to the US.

[Landslide Lyndon]

The death of independent enthusiast media in gaming/entertainment is the real problem.

It has zero to do with a Woke plot. Rather as Woke = Corporate HR, what we have seen is the death of every major video game/entertainment outlet that is not owned by a retailer/distributor/publisher. So if the coverage sounds like it is echoing a "woke" corporate HR seminar, that is because it is.

This has resulted in the death of criticism in mainstream outlets which largely exist for marketing.

Consequently, the market for criticism has been seized by the Right. Not entirely. In isolation, there are leftwing influencers willing to say that corporate slop is terrible. But the marketing strategy of conflating criticism with attacks on diversity has worked spectacularly, not in deterring criticism from the right, but in forcing left-wing critics into silence lest they be seen as joining a hate movement.

The problem is that all this PR genius cannot change the fact that many of the underlying products are awful, and only one side is willing to "explain" why.

It's not just media. The left has fallen into a trap in the cultural sphere of becoming the fanatical defenders of the existing power structure. We have the first Democratic Socialist movement in history dedicated to insisting that Big Pharma and pre-Elon tech management can do no wrong, and that Jeff Bezos is defending democracy from dying in darkness with the Washington Post.

You really have no idea what you're talking about. Please show me the Democratic Socialists who defend Big Pharma and Jeff Bezos.
Because most of them right now are too busy defending the decidedly non-woke regimes of Putin and Hamas.