Fmr. Obama Advisor: Sanders’ Health Bill Is A Disaster

[Lord Admirale]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/24/opinion/medicare-for-all-democrats.html

Definitely worth reading, he makes some very valid points on how poorly written the Independent Senator’s bill is.

[MasterJedi]

So will Sanders and his Bros let it be worked on or will they insist it's perfect? Since he's not a Dem and wants it his way I imagine he will force his version and not really care about "the cause" in the end as long as he gets his way.

[7,052,770]

To be fair, this is just a starting point that will never be voted on or debated. A much more polished version will be produced when something like this has a chance of passing.

[Frodo]

Most people support the overall concept of single-payer, and ultimately some form of it must and will be passed.  And if Sanders and his supporters have any brains at all, they will allow for disagreement over the details so long as the general concept is kept intact.  

[Pyro]

Rattner believes M4All is a disaster as it does not serve to benefit the financial industry.
He is wealthy financier and investment banker. Connect the dots.

As a side note, it is hilarious that he believes championing healthcare for all will somehow leave the Democratic Party in a worse shape than it is presently in.

[Lord Admirale]

Rattner believes M4All is a disaster as it does not serve to benefit the financial industry.
He is wealthy financier and investment banker. Connect the dots.

As a side note, it is hilarious that he believes championing healthcare for all will somehow leave the Democratic Party in a worse shape than it is presently in.

It’s not like this guy worked for President Obama or anything. What does he know?

“But muh millyuhnaihs and billyuhnaihs”

[JA]

Rattner is simply echoing standard centrist, neoliberal nonsense. He initiates the op-ed with a series of vague personal insults against Sanders and proceeds to declare Medicare for all a bad plan simply because (a) it was rejected at the state level and (b) people don’t like the taxes involved. He offers no concrete reasons why it’s bad policy, only that according to his neoliberal perspective, which wrongfully assumes the average American is some social liberal and fiscal conservative, Americans won’t like it. Except a politically savvy Democrat could easily navigate around the issue of tax policy by emphasizing how much we already spend on a broken system, how much it already costs employers and those who purchase private healthcare, how money could be rearranged in existing budgets to shift it from excessive military and security state spending towards healthcare, and how increasing taxes on the wealthy (inheritance tax, investment taxes, and income taxes) could easily cover it.

People like Rattner offer nothing except more destructive market solutions, when the primary purpose of health insurers isn’t reduced costs or better care, but increasing profits. That means the sick and poor will be punished and shifted onto the government or left without any care. He also mentions how we must focus on “better jobs for all,” while rattling off the same old failed talking points of improved education, training, and mobility. Who pays for that education? Students who go tens of thousands into debt to the private banks that they’re forced to borrow from to cover the cost of their education, which is the highest in the world. Retraining for jobs that don’t exist in most areas when people don’t want to and shouldn’t have to relocate to already expensive and crowded cities with failing infrastructure just to find jobs that are “mobile,” which is code word for providing limited job security and forces people to become part of the Uber economy to survive.

No thanks, Rattner. Take your discredited, inhumane, and corporate policies and jump off a skyscraper.

[Lord Admirale]

.
No thanks, Rattner. Take your discredited, inhumane, and corporate policies and jump off a skyscraper.

Sounds like someone doesn’t like their Bernout bubble getting popped

Anyways, it’s ironic you call Rattner inhumane, meanwhile Bernie’s bill will likely cause “treatment rationing.” How humane is that? 

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Rattner believes M4All is a disaster as it does not serve to benefit the financial industry.
He is wealthy financier and investment banker. Connect the dots.

As a side note, it is hilarious that he believes championing healthcare for all will somehow leave the Democratic Party in a worse shape than it is presently in.

[Celebi]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/24/opinion/medicare-for-all-democrats.html

Definitely worth reading, he makes some very valid points on how poorly written the Independent Senator’s bill is.

I didn't see any valid points aside from "it's hard to pass" and "some easily fixable details aren't worked out yet".

[KingSweden]

I’m not a Sanderista (far from it) but there’ll be a lot of input, polishing and details when something like this is actually ready to pass.

It can be vague now; it’s all conceptual anyways.

[JA]

.
No thanks, Rattner. Take your discredited, inhumane, and corporate policies and jump off a skyscraper.

Sounds like someone doesn’t like their Bernout bubble getting popped

What in that article could possibly pop anyone's bubble unless they're mentally retarded?

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Ah, yes, the standard right-wing talking point. I bet every other person in the developed world experiences severe rationing of care; my British ex-girlfriend absolutely abhorred the NHS and so envied our system. /s

How about you defend the humanity of rationing of care that's performed in the United States on the basis of one's ability to pay? You know, the kind that results in tens of millions of Americans every year lacking basic healthcare coverage, that has to limit what operations and procedures they can have due to insurance restrictions based on the determinations of the insurance provider, the folks who skip going to the doctor because of absurd out-of-pocket costs, the folks who risk losing everything if they get cancer or another serious medical condition. America's healthcare system is top notch if you're in a good financial situation; for the tens of millions of Americans who aren't, like my deceased father who had a heart condition but never had health insurance and was told by the hospital he needed to see a family physician that he couldn't afford until he died in his car at work from sudden cardiac arrest just before Christmas last year, well, it's not so great.

[Shadows]

Wait ! Why are people disguising retarded dumb opinions as genuine criticism or improvement point. This is the problem with so-called radical centrist folks. They don't have the intelligence to even read an article.

The article is an all out smear/slander attack devoid of genuine criticisms or improvement areas. Can you be a Liberal/Progressive/Left leaning or even Centrist in economic policy while opposing Universal Healthcare?

That is a right wing "Economic" position when all of the Industrial world have Universal Healthcare. This was a flat out attack on Universal healthcare.

[Lord Admirale]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Ah, yes, the standard right-wing talking point. I bet every other person in the developed world experiences severe rationing of care; my British ex-girlfriend absolutely abhorred the NHS and so envied our system. /s

How about you defend the humanity of rationing of care that's performed in the United States on the basis of one's ability to pay? You know, the kind that results in tens of millions of Americans every year lacking basic healthcare coverage, that has to limit what operations and procedures they can have due to insurance restrictions based on the determinations of the insurance provider, the folks who skip going to the doctor because of absurd out-of-pocket costs, the folks who risk losing everything if they get cancer or another serious medical condition. America's healthcare system is top notch if you're in a good financial situation; for the tens of millions of Americans who aren't, like my deceased father who had a heart condition but never had health insurance and was told by the hospital he needed to see a family physician that he couldn't afford until he died in his car at work from sudden cardiac arrest just before Christmas last year, well, it's not so great.

Ah yes, because I don’t support the first universal healthcare bill that took 12 minutes to write, it immediately means that I support the current system.

Sorry about your dad, by the way. It must be hard to lose a family member so young. I have quite a lot of friends who are struggling to get healthcare, and I would share their stories, but I wouldn’t like to use them as political props.....

That’s just low, deranged, and twisted on so many levels. You oughta be ashamed for using him as a prop.

[Shadows]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Ah, yes, the standard right-wing talking point. I bet every other person in the developed world experiences severe rationing of care; my British ex-girlfriend absolutely abhorred the NHS and so envied our system. /s

How about you defend the humanity of rationing of care that's performed in the United States on the basis of one's ability to pay? You know, the kind that results in tens of millions of Americans every year lacking basic healthcare coverage, that has to limit what operations and procedures they can have due to insurance restrictions based on the determinations of the insurance provider, the folks who skip going to the doctor because of absurd out-of-pocket costs, the folks who risk losing everything if they get cancer or another serious medical condition. America's healthcare system is top notch if you're in a good financial situation; for the tens of millions of Americans who aren't, like my deceased father who had a heart condition but never had health insurance and was told by the hospital he needed to see a family physician that he couldn't afford until he died in his car at work from sudden cardiac arrest just before Christmas last year, well, it's not so great.

Ah yes, because I don’t support the first universal healthcare bill that took 12 minutes to write, it immediately means that I support the current system.

Sorry about your dad, btw. I have quite a lot of friends who are struggling to get healthcare, and I would share their stories, but I wouldn’t like to use them as political props.....

What is your criticism of the Sanders Universal healthcare Medicare-for-all bill?

What is the alternative you are proposing?

How do you cover everyone & ensure it is affordable to everyone?

How do you fund your alternative proposal?

[Roronoa D. Law]

I know Democrats and when they get the presidency and the congress they will spend all there time getting this passed and lose the house next year only for Republicans to sabotage once they win electoral college w/o the popular vote. Instead of trying to pass laws to protect voter rights, lgbt rights, climate change, university price control, infrastructure and fix immigration. But no they'll be to busy trying pass single payer which will probably become a public option after 2 years of deliberating.

[Lord Admirale]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Ah, yes, the standard right-wing talking point. I bet every other person in the developed world experiences severe rationing of care; my British ex-girlfriend absolutely abhorred the NHS and so envied our system. /s

How about you defend the humanity of rationing of care that's performed in the United States on the basis of one's ability to pay? You know, the kind that results in tens of millions of Americans every year lacking basic healthcare coverage, that has to limit what operations and procedures they can have due to insurance restrictions based on the determinations of the insurance provider, the folks who skip going to the doctor because of absurd out-of-pocket costs, the folks who risk losing everything if they get cancer or another serious medical condition. America's healthcare system is top notch if you're in a good financial situation; for the tens of millions of Americans who aren't, like my deceased father who had a heart condition but never had health insurance and was told by the hospital he needed to see a family physician that he couldn't afford until he died in his car at work from sudden cardiac arrest just before Christmas last year, well, it's not so great.

Ah yes, because I don’t support the first universal healthcare bill that took 12 minutes to write, it immediately means that I support the current system.

Sorry about your dad, btw. I have quite a lot of friends who are struggling to get healthcare, and I would share their stories, but I wouldn’t like to use them as political props.....

What is your criticism of the Sanders Universal healthcare Medicare-for-all bill?

What is the alternative you are proposing?

How do you cover everyone & ensure it is affordable to everyone?

How do you fund your alternative proposal?

1. Poorly written, lots of flaws, and simply won’t pass even in a Democratic House and/or Senate.
2. Something similar to Germany’s multipayer system
3. Price regulations on drugs, equipment, along with utilizing a national gas tax and other taxes (that I haven’t decided on yet)
4. See above

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Rattner believes M4All is a disaster as it does not serve to benefit the financial industry.
He is wealthy financier and investment banker. Connect the dots.

As a side note, it is hilarious that he believes championing healthcare for all will somehow leave the Democratic Party in a worse shape than it is presently in.

It’s not like this guy worked for President Obama or anything. What does he know?

“But muh millyuhnaihs and billyuhnaihs”

This would be the same Obama who sold the Democrats and the nation a Heritage Foundation health care plan, yes?

[Shadows]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Ah, yes, the standard right-wing talking point. I bet every other person in the developed world experiences severe rationing of care; my British ex-girlfriend absolutely abhorred the NHS and so envied our system. /s

How about you defend the humanity of rationing of care that's performed in the United States on the basis of one's ability to pay? You know, the kind that results in tens of millions of Americans every year lacking basic healthcare coverage, that has to limit what operations and procedures they can have due to insurance restrictions based on the determinations of the insurance provider, the folks who skip going to the doctor because of absurd out-of-pocket costs, the folks who risk losing everything if they get cancer or another serious medical condition. America's healthcare system is top notch if you're in a good financial situation; for the tens of millions of Americans who aren't, like my deceased father who had a heart condition but never had health insurance and was told by the hospital he needed to see a family physician that he couldn't afford until he died in his car at work from sudden cardiac arrest just before Christmas last year, well, it's not so great.

Ah yes, because I don’t support the first universal healthcare bill that took 12 minutes to write, it immediately means that I support the current system.

Sorry about your dad, btw. I have quite a lot of friends who are struggling to get healthcare, and I would share their stories, but I wouldn’t like to use them as political props.....

What is your criticism of the Sanders Universal healthcare Medicare-for-all bill?

What is the alternative you are proposing?

How do you cover everyone & ensure it is affordable to everyone?

How do you fund your alternative proposal?

1. Poorly written, lots of flaws, and simply won’t pass even in a Democratic House and/or Senate.
2. Something similar to Germany’s multipayer system
3. Price regulations on drugs, equipment, along with utilizing a national gas tax and other taxes (that I haven’t decided on yet)
4. See above

1 - What about it was poorly written? What Flaws? The Passage is a different topic but you can't speak vaguely about flaws? If you are calling something flawed/poorly written, you should give examples !


2 - Germany's Healthcare system is unconstitutional by US Laws. It would require everyone under 50K odd to be forced to buy Medicare & above 50K to be forced to buy Private Insurance. How is it constitutional to force people to buy private insurance ? Also there is the fact that it is very hard to implement (Transition of people into different plans based on changes of income, change of this income level with inflation, a Conservative party decreasing this income level so low to make it meaningless).

It would also mean having a Medicare for all, for roughly 85-90% of the people (German Multi-payer system has a 1 Payer for 85%+) so the problems of having high Payroll taxes & Income taxes will continue to happen. So the whole tax increase problem of 1 Payer will be there in the German system.


3 - Okay so you have not decided on taxes because Gas taxes would never alone pay anywhere near for Universal Healthcare & neither would price regulations. Not to mention the small fraction of money you will get by gas taxes (vs Total healthcare funding) can only be done when oil prices are super low like it is now. When Oil hits 80$ a barrel, gas tax has to be withdrawn. So that makes it unworkable for having Universal Healthcare for 40-50 years?

What happens when the world is moving away from oil & more into electric vehicles & renewable energy? What happens when your oil revenues fall?

[IceAgeComing]

Ah yes, because I don’t support the first universal healthcare bill that took 12 minutes to write, it immediately means that I support the current system.

Sorry about your dad, by the way. It must be hard to lose a family member so young. I have quite a lot of friends who are struggling to get healthcare, and I would share their stories, but I wouldn’t like to use them as political props.....

That’s just low, deranged, and twisted on so many levels. You oughta be ashamed for using him as a prop.

I could address many of the silly points made in this thread (especially the "rationing!!!" one which ehh happens in literally every model of healthcare to some extent no matter the structure: only that the American model where it is based on ones ability to pay is by far the worst) but this one strikes me as being the worst: the idea that you can't use your own personal experiences with a broken and terrible system to argue for change because "you're politicising them!!!" or whatever is a terrible idea.  Unless you're wiling to argue the same about people who used similar experiences to argue for a whole array of very important regulations that everyone generally agrees are good today - things like mandating basic safety features like airbags and seat belts in cars, and other similar safety related things that benefit everyone in our day to day life.

I think also this thread shows a significant misunderstanding of the point of private members bills (of which this really is an American equivalent of, in that its not introduced by the majority and will not go very far through the legislative process) and why people introduce legislation that has an incredibly low if not zero chance of passing.  Its not about presenting an entirely perfect bill and seriously trying to pass the thing: its about keeping an issue or cause that you believe in alive and actively debated rather than letting it die - this is precisely why the Republicans voted to repeal Obamacare 629 times when Obama was President: they never actually expected the thing to become law but wanted the issue to remain in the news and not allow it to become settled which seemed to work.  The problem with this approach is that when you do get in a position to pass whatever you want you actually need to put something workable together and that can prove problematic - to carry on my earlier analogy, look at the issues that the Republicans had passing anything on healthcare when they had the ability to pass practically anything they wanted.  The difference between those advocating for a better, single-payer (or multi-payer as well: both models seem to be considered as the same thing in America at the moment) system have at least a vague idea of the sort of system that they want: while Republicans apparently put little to no thought in the system that they wanted to introduce after repealing the ACA.  In that respect Sanders has done exactly what he intended to do with this thing - indeed, this thread is proof of that!

In terms of the article itself: its primary points (other than ageist insults and electoral concerns) seem to be based on one main point - that single-payer proposals did not pass at the state level.  However there are plenty of reasons why single-payer systems would be untenable at state level - especially in smaller states like Vermont and Colorado where they got the most consideration - and that's because its only a model that sensibly works at a national level.  Universal coverage requires costs to fall (American healthcare spending being significantly higher than any other country in the world is untenable: especially since performance in the US under the current system continue to be amongst the worst in a group of similar nations - incidentally the highest performing country overall is the UK and its Beveridge-based state-managed system, although Australia's single payer insurance system is second and the Netherlands multi-payer private system is third which would suggest to me that there's no single perfect model) and that requires nation-wide organisation since healthcare, like everything, is an economy of scale and a single federal system would be able to negotiate significantly lower costs than, say, Vermont would by itself.  The author of that article does not even consider that fact: nor is the fact that although taxation would need to rise in order to fund a single-payer system, this would be balanced by individuals needing to pay significantly lower if any premiums in order to get healthcare coverage: which would likely balance out for a significant number of people.  The other concern of the article seems to be "we need to be talking about other issues!!" which isn't really worth taking that seriously: a party can and needs to talk about a large range of issues.

[IceSpear]

"Why ‘Medicare for All’ Will Sink the Democrats"

I'm pretty sure the Democrats are already sunk, bruh.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

.
No thanks, Rattner. Take your discredited, inhumane, and corporate policies and jump off a skyscraper.

Sounds like someone doesn’t like their Bernout bubble getting popped

Anyways, it’s ironic you call Rattner inhumane, meanwhile Bernie’s bill will likely cause “treatment rationing.” How humane is that? 

You mean 'greatest good for the greatest number'? There is valid criticism of utilitarian approaches, but scare quotes are not part of it.

[Blackacre]

To which my response is "no sh*t, sherlock."

Sanders' bill is unworkable in its current form. And I don't trust Democrats to have a workable version when they regain power because the GOP has been crying repeal and replace for 7 years only to not have anything workable.

We have three options. We could ignore healthcare entirely (something I don't agree with but I do think next time we regain power it should be lower on the bucket list than immigration, criminal justice reform, and infrastructure) we could tweak the Sanders bill while we still can so that it isn't horrendous, or we could look elsewhere. There are other members of Congress with decent plans, either standalone or as a path to an eventual workable single-payer. Brown has medicare buy-in, Kaine and Bennett have their Medicare X bill, Conyers has AmeriCare, and so on.

Is Sanders' bill garbage? Yes. Is the idea of single-payer bad? Absolutely not. But we should under no circumstances let this particular bill become law.

[PragmaticPopulist]

This is what most non-Bernie cultists think. I admit it was probably just a rough draft, but it doesn't address any of the downsides of implementing the system. I'd be all for a single-payer system as long as it doesn't create huge debt and put health care workers out of their jobs.

I think that realistically, a single-payer system is at least 20 years away.

[Saint Milei]

Is any1 familiar with the NYTimes? How can you copy and paste stuff from articles?