Actress accuses HW Bush of sexual assaulting her

[HisGrace]

Those are just a couple of mildest comments on her page:

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The last guy on a certain level has a point. One time in college some girl repeatedly kept grabbing my leg when I was sitting down and saying she was going to grab my penis and a bunch of the women's studies/campus feminist crowd in the vicinity just thought it was funny. So if they want people to take groping more seriously they could maybe try taking it more seriously themselves.

[Beet]

It gives me hope to see a socialist-identifying man like Jacobin American actually speaking out against online harassment. That's really breaking stereotype. If that kind of thing was done more often, maybe the whole feminist/brocialist divide could be bridged after all.

The fact of the matter is that the Internet is a tool that we have given ourselves before we've learned how to use it. People don't appreciate how different communication is, and how people behave differently- with less empathy, than they would face-to-face, as we were evolved to interact. People are nastier, and meaner. Not everyone, but a lot of people. It brings out baser, more uncivilized behaviors.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

It gives me hope to see a socialist-identifying man like Jacobin American actually speaking out against online harassment. That's really breaking stereotype. If that kind of thing was done more often, maybe the whole feminist/brocialist divide could be bridged after all.

The fact of the matter is that the Internet is a tool that we have given ourselves before we've learned how to use it. People don't appreciate how different communication is, and how people behave differently- with less empathy, than they would face-to-face, as we were evolved to interact. People are nastier, and meaner. Not everyone, but a lot of people. It brings out baser, more uncivilized behaviors.

Uh, there are many socialist women and socialist feminists. There’s already a bridge.

[publicunofficial]

Those are just a couple of mildest comments on her page:

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If I could, I'd honestly send each of those people (and all other similar commenters) to the gulags. They're uncivilized, disgusting defenders of sexual assault and victim shamers. They're the very embodiment of what's wrong with our world.

Judging complete strangers is okay!

So, if one of your immediate family members said that, you would think they deserve a Soviet-style gulag? “Bleeding-heart liberal” has a whole new meaning there.

If a relative said that to me they would be disowned. But you would be "meh" about it?

Please never accuse anyone of lacking in empathy ever again.

"Empathy" means "Being willing to overlook s***ty behavior because I'm also a sexist asshat"

[Celebi]

Those are just a couple of mildest comments on her page:

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If I could, I'd honestly send each of those people (and all other similar commenters) to the gulags. They're uncivilized, disgusting defenders of sexual assault and victim shamers. They're the very embodiment of what's wrong with our world.

Because few offensive comments on the internet certainly deserve that kind of punishment. Viva la free speech.

I'm left-winger and liberal but this kind of attitude is exactly what is wrong with American left. More concerned with people's feelings being hurt than with people dying because they cannot afford healthcare. This is why Trump won.

[JA]

Those are just a couple of mildest comments on her page:

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If I could, I'd honestly send each of those people (and all other similar commenters) to the gulags. They're uncivilized, disgusting defenders of sexual assault and victim shamers. They're the very embodiment of what's wrong with our world.

Because few offensive comments on the internet certainly deserve that kind of punishment. Viva la free speech.

Offensive and hateful speech like that doesn’t deserve to be free.

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Contradictory terms, but ok.

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If you think this is why Trump won, you’re an idiot. You simply want to coddle victim shamers because you’re an awful person. This has absolutely nothing to do with why the Democrats couldn’t manage to defeat a semi-literate reality TV star with penchant for sexual assault and habitual lying.

[JA]

Those are just a couple of mildest comments on her page:

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If I could, I'd honestly send each of those people (and all other similar commenters) to the gulags. They're uncivilized, disgusting defenders of sexual assault and victim shamers. They're the very embodiment of what's wrong with our world.

Judging complete strangers is okay!

So, if one of your immediate family members said that, you would think they deserve a Soviet-style gulag? “Bleeding-heart liberal” has a whole new meaning there.

If a relative said that to me they would be disowned. But you would be "meh" about it?

Please never accuse anyone of lacking in empathy ever again.

"Empathy" means "Being willing to overlook s***ty behavior because I'm also a sexist asshat"

Kingpolean is the type of scumbag who, in a different cultural context, would make excuses to justify the public stoning of a rape victim or marrying off of a woman to her rapist.

[Celebi]

Because few offensive comments on the internet certainly deserve that kind of punishment. Viva la free speech.

Offensive and hateful speech like that doesn’t deserve to be free.

All right you don't believe in free speech. Whole principle of free speech is about allowing opinions you personally detest.

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Contradictory terms, but ok.

Meaning socially liberal.

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If you think this is why Trump won, you’re an idiot. You simply want to coddle victim shamers because you’re an awful person. This has absolutely nothing to do with why the Democrats couldn’t manage to defeat a semi-literate reality TV star with penchant for sexual assault and habitual lying.

This has everything to do with that. Trump won because democratic elites completely lost the touch with normal people who aren't politically correct. I'd guess there's at least 50% of the country (including many women) that don't believe that 90 year old man in a wheelchair touching butt of some actress is sexual assault and proper reaction to such behavior (if it bothers somebody so much) is to slap that person, not to make a national scandal out of it.

You may not like that but that is how probably majority of the country feels. Try talking sometimes to people outside of your bubble.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

It gives me hope to see a socialist-identifying man like Jacobin American actually speaking out against online harassment.

We really don't need more of this.

[JA]

Because few offensive comments on the internet certainly deserve that kind of punishment. Viva la free speech.

Offensive and hateful speech like that doesn’t deserve to be free.

All right you don't believe in free speech. Whole principle of free speech is about allowing opinions you personally detest.

Hate speech should be outlawed.

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Contradictory terms, but ok.
[/quote]

Meaning socially liberal.[/quote]

And? Liberals are trash; basic ass centrists.

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If you think this is why Trump won, you’re an idiot. You simply want to coddle victim shamers because you’re an awful person. This has absolutely nothing to do with why the Democrats couldn’t manage to defeat a semi-literate reality TV star with penchant for sexual assault and habitual lying.
[/quote]

This has everything to do with that. Trump won because democratic elites completely lost the touch with normal people who aren't politically correct.[/quote]

If honestly believe "political correctness" is the reason Democrats lost, I feel sorry for you.

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So... because X amount of people think something is alright, that makes it alright? If at least 50% of the country thought forced segregation based on race was ok too, would you be here defending that as well?

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No thanks. My bubble is all warm and cozy; I quite like it in here.

[JA]

I honestly can't believe this needs to be stated, but really shouldn't be surprised.

Victims are never at fault. Sexual assault and sexual violence of any kind never were, never are, and never could be excused, rationalized, defended, or downplayed in their severity. Anyone who has committed any sexual transgression against another person deserves to be called out for it, no matter their age or position in society. Victims deserve to be believed by people unless/until the accused is proven innocent (which they rarely are innocent, considering a mere 2-8% of such accusations are false). Sexual assaulters and rapists very rarely ever face any serious consequences for their actions and throughout history, even today in our country, victims are made to feel ashamed and at fault when they did nothing wrong whatsoever. Blame is 100% on the perpertrator; they consciously chose to touch, force themselves upon, or make unwanted sexual comments towards another person without their consent.

If you in any way, shape, or form try to disregard a victim's testimony, downplay the severity of what had happened to them, blame them for it, or question their actions whatsoever, you are a horrible person. That's what's meant by the pervasiveness of rape culture in America. Sexual violence is an incredibly serious and far too common thing in our society; millions of people are permanently scarred by something they did nothing to cause. It can lead to depression, self-harm, PTSD, and countless other problems in a victim's life and the last thing they need is to be shamed by others. And if you think "oh it was just innocent touching," then you're trash.

[Helsinkian]

Blame is 100% on the perpertrator; they consciously chose to touch, force themselves upon, or make unwanted sexual comments towards another person without their consent.

There does come a point in the senility of a man in his 90s when the part about "consciously choosing" to do something can be questioned.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

The sheer amount of vitriol she's getting on Instagram is troubling.

How dare she speak ill of the old and defenseless David Cop-a-feel

Anyone who victim shames should honestly be sent to a gulag.

Well I'm sure she was the architect of victim shaming during her hubs cooter a day days.

I've been staring at this for two minutes and still can't figure out what it means. Am I having a stroke?

Doc, don't you remember the bimbo eruption office in the Clinton White House?  Their whole mission was accuse the accuser.  If you think Hillary wasn't a large part of that operation you're delusional and could be having that stroke.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

As of talks about a mere publicity stunt, I'd be careful with that. It's not easy to come out with something like this for the very reason JA outlined, especially in case of someone like HW. And if, hypothetically speaking, HW were to bit the dust in near future, just imagine more hate she'd get.

[Badger]

Guys. This is not about sexism. This is about dementia, pure and simple. His brain is addled. I don't mean in an old-fashioned kind of way were people that generation think it's okay to call black people colored. I mean most days he probably, well, doesn't know what day it is.

Again, it doesn't make what he did right. But before we talk about assault, which is a crime, let's also remember that mental incompetency is required before someone to stand trial. Hectically, what he did is he misdemeanor sex offense at least under Ohio law. If I were back in the prosecutor's office I would never want to have to try to prove he was mentally sound enough to stand trial. And if I was his defense attorney I would be running red lights to get to the courthouse to file request for a competency exam.

This is not about tolerance for sexual misconduct like Harvey Weinstein and a certain president. And nor is it about social liberals and feminism being up an arm like a couple of rape apologist assholes on this thread try to turn it into. It is a very sad case of a guy who probably some days choirs why he hasn't seen his father in a while, as he's unable to realize the man died decades ago. My grandmother who is almost exactly Bush's age had the same conversation with me just a couple months ago when I attended my step grandfather's funeral.

So can we simply chalk this up as the actress was perfectly justified in feeling offended and violated, and former President Bush sadly isn't really sound enough to know what he's doing.

With God as my witness there's half a chance he momentarily thought it was a young Barbara Bush. Anyone needs a further picture of my explanation find the Mad Men episode where January Jones's character had to fend off a groping from her Alzheimer ridden father who mistook her at the breakfast table for his wife

[The Mikado]

Guys. This is not about sexism. This is about dementia, pure and simple. His brain is addled. I don't mean in an old-fashioned kind of way were people that generation think it's okay to call black people colored. I mean most days he probably, well, doesn't know what day it is.

Again, it doesn't make what he did right. But before we talk about assault, which is a crime, let's also remember that mental incompetency is required before someone to stand trial. Hectically, what he did is he misdemeanor sex offense at least under Ohio law. If I were back in the prosecutor's office I would never want to have to try to prove he was mentally sound enough to stand trial. And if I was his defense attorney I would be running red lights to get to the courthouse to file request for a competency exam.

This is not about tolerance for sexual misconduct like Harvey Weinstein and a certain president. And nor is it about social liberals and feminism being up an arm like a couple of rape apologist assholes on this thread try to turn it into. It is a very sad case of a guy who probably some days choirs why he hasn't seen his father in a while, as he's unable to realize the man died decades ago. My grandmother who is almost exactly Bush's age had the same conversation with me just a couple months ago when I attended my step grandfather's funeral.

So can we simply chalk this up as the actress was perfectly justified in feeling offended and violated, and former President Bush sadly isn't really sound enough to know what he's doing.

With God as my witness there's half a chance he momentarily thought it was a young Barbara Bush. Anyone needs a further picture of my explanation find the Mad Men episode where January Jones's character had to fend off a groping from her Alzheimer ridden father who mistook her at the breakfast table for his wife

He just had a third accuser come forth with the same story last night. If this guy is going to grab the ass of any woman who comes in front of him, it's the Bush family's responsibility to keep him removed from women. You can't just roll this guy out, have him grab every ass in front of him, and say that it's just senility without taking active steps to keep him removed from said asses.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

OK, Badger, these are valid points, but let's consider this: it's unfair and unreasonable to expect from a woman subjected to a sexual misdemeanor to think like "hm, now let's consider all possible mitigating and aggravating factors".

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

I honestly can't believe this needs to be stated, but really shouldn't be surprised.

Victims are never at fault. Sexual assault and sexual violence of any kind never were, never are, and never could be excused, rationalized, defended, or downplayed in their severity. Anyone who has committed any sexual transgression against another person deserves to be called out for it, no matter their age or position in society. Victims deserve to be believed by people unless/until the accused is proven innocent (which they rarely are innocent, considering a mere 2-8% of such accusations are false). Sexual assaulters and rapists very rarely ever face any serious consequences for their actions and throughout history, even today in our country, victims are made to feel ashamed and at fault when they did nothing wrong whatsoever. Blame is 100% on the perpertrator; they consciously chose to touch, force themselves upon, or make unwanted sexual comments towards another person without their consent.

If you in any way, shape, or form try to disregard a victim's testimony, downplay the severity of what had happened to them, blame them for it, or question their actions whatsoever, you are a horrible person. That's what's meant by the pervasiveness of rape culture in America. Sexual violence is an incredibly serious and far too common thing in our society; millions of people are permanently scarred by something they did nothing to cause. It can lead to depression, self-harm, PTSD, and countless other problems in a victim's life and the last thing they need is to be shamed by others. And if you think "oh it was just innocent touching," then you're trash.

How is anyone ever going to be proven (!) innocent if anyone who ever questions their guilt is automatically a horrible person?

[Santander]

OK, Badger, these are valid points, but let's consider this: it's unfair and unreasonable to expect from a woman subjected to a sexual misdemeanor to think like "hm, now let's consider all possible mitigating and aggravating factors".

The woman felt violated no matter the circumstances, but it is reasonable to expect the media and the public to consider the factors involved, yes.

[60+ GOP Seats After 2018 GUARANTEED]

I have known many Alzheimer's patients and even had to take care of my grandma who had it.

Never once did I see anything sexual from them, and then to make a joke about it.

Alzheimer's or dementia doesn't make you grab a woman's butt, and then make a joke ("David Cop-a-Feel"). Come on people.

It's like that Seinfeld episode with Uncle Leo. He commits a crime, then tries to play the "I'm an old man, I didn't know what I was doing!" card.

[The Mikado]

If George H W Bush is really to the point where he indiscriminately grabs every ass he sees, it's on the Bush family to keep him away from asses. This is simple.

[OSR stands with Israel]

I honestly can't believe this needs to be stated, but really shouldn't be surprised.

Victims are never at fault. Sexual assault and sexual violence of any kind never were, never are, and never could be excused, rationalized, defended, or downplayed in their severity. Anyone who has committed any sexual transgression against another person deserves to be called out for it, no matter their age or position in society. Victims deserve to be believed by people unless/until the accused is proven innocent (which they rarely are innocent, considering a mere 2-8% of such accusations are false). Sexual assaulters and rapists very rarely ever face any serious consequences for their actions and throughout history, even today in our country, victims are made to feel ashamed and at fault when they did nothing wrong whatsoever. Blame is 100% on the perpertrator; they consciously chose to touch, force themselves upon, or make unwanted sexual comments towards another person without their consent.

If you in any way, shape, or form try to disregard a victim's testimony, downplay the severity of what had happened to them, blame them for it, or question their actions whatsoever, you are a horrible person. That's what's meant by the pervasiveness of rape culture in America. Sexual violence is an incredibly serious and far too common thing in our society; millions of people are permanently scarred by something they did nothing to cause. It can lead to depression, self-harm, PTSD, and countless other problems in a victim's life and the last thing they need is to be shamed by others. And if you think "oh it was just innocent touching," then you're trash.

That's not how our country works , in our country you are innocent until proven guilty.

[Santander]

That's not how our country works , in our country you are innocent until proven guilty.

Innocence in a court of law is not the same thing as moral absolution.

[JA]

I honestly can't believe this needs to be stated, but really shouldn't be surprised.

Victims are never at fault. Sexual assault and sexual violence of any kind never were, never are, and never could be excused, rationalized, defended, or downplayed in their severity. Anyone who has committed any sexual transgression against another person deserves to be called out for it, no matter their age or position in society. Victims deserve to be believed by people unless/until the accused is proven innocent (which they rarely are innocent, considering a mere 2-8% of such accusations are false). Sexual assaulters and rapists very rarely ever face any serious consequences for their actions and throughout history, even today in our country, victims are made to feel ashamed and at fault when they did nothing wrong whatsoever. Blame is 100% on the perpertrator; they consciously chose to touch, force themselves upon, or make unwanted sexual comments towards another person without their consent.

If you in any way, shape, or form try to disregard a victim's testimony, downplay the severity of what had happened to them, blame them for it, or question their actions whatsoever, you are a horrible person. That's what's meant by the pervasiveness of rape culture in America. Sexual violence is an incredibly serious and far too common thing in our society; millions of people are permanently scarred by something they did nothing to cause. It can lead to depression, self-harm, PTSD, and countless other problems in a victim's life and the last thing they need is to be shamed by others. And if you think "oh it was just innocent touching," then you're trash.

That's not how our country works , in our country you are innocent until proven guilty.

I wasn't contending that anyone should be treated, legally, as anything but innocent until proven guilty. There is due process in this country and it's for everyone's benefit. My remarks were regarding the perceptions others have of that person, such as how all these people were so quick to rush to Bush Sr's defense rather than giving the victim the benefit of the doubt.

[HisGrace]

Guys. This is not about sexism. This is about dementia, pure and simple. His brain is addled. I don't mean in an old-fashioned kind of way were people that generation think it's okay to call black people colored. I mean most days he probably, well, doesn't know what day it is.

Again, it doesn't make what he did right. But before we talk about assault, which is a crime, let's also remember that mental incompetency is required before someone to stand trial. Hectically, what he did is he misdemeanor sex offense at least under Ohio law. If I were back in the prosecutor's office I would never want to have to try to prove he was mentally sound enough to stand trial. And if I was his defense attorney I would be running red lights to get to the courthouse to file request for a competency exam.

This is not about tolerance for sexual misconduct like Harvey Weinstein and a certain president. And nor is it about social liberals and feminism being up an arm like a couple of rape apologist assholes on this thread try to turn it into. It is a very sad case of a guy who probably some days choirs why he hasn't seen his father in a while, as he's unable to realize the man died decades ago. My grandmother who is almost exactly Bush's age had the same conversation with me just a couple months ago when I attended my step grandfather's funeral.

So can we simply chalk this up as the actress was perfectly justified in feeling offended and violated, and former President Bush sadly isn't really sound enough to know what he's doing.

With God as my witness there's half a chance he momentarily thought it was a young Barbara Bush. Anyone needs a further picture of my explanation find the Mad Men episode where January Jones's character had to fend off a groping from her Alzheimer ridden father who mistook her at the breakfast table for his wife

I haven't really commented on this issue aside from replying to other posts in the thread because of this issue. I don't really feel comfortable defending him here because it's entirely possible he's fine mentally and has done stuff like this his whole life. But his age and the fact that he doesn't seem 100% "with it" these days gives me more pause than I have for Clinton/Trump/Weinstein and whoever else. That doesn't make it "okay", but it does give it a different level of seriousness.