LGB Dignity Bill (Law'd)

[Хahar 🤔]

Why should we ban them?

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This is a good bill. It has my full support.

Despite being unconstitutional?

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Since all these places don't work, they're fraudulent and thereby illegal.

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Since it's obviously fraudulent, can't it be prosecuted as such?

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The total lack of any corroboration that they do work should provide some.

[Хahar 🤔]

Aye


I believe the "life, liberty, and the pursuit" provision would make this unconstitutional as is currently written. While the argument can (and should) be made that minors do not always know what is best for them and what makes them happy, who are we to tell people what makes them happy and what is harmful. They have the right to choose for themselves, otherwise you open the door to legislation banning abortion clinics.

EDIT: And please no straw men on this. The current bill could lead to conservatives attempting to pass legislation that says that, due to the psychological impact abortion can have on people, clinics should be closed. This bill opens the door to further government meddling in a person's right to privacy and choice.

Uh, no? What crooked connection does shutting down harmful and fraudulent businesses have with shutting down abortion clinics because they cause stress? We want to shut these people down because they claim to do something that's a biological impossibility, through psychologically and physically harmful means. (Downright brainwashing.)

There is no comparison to shutting down abortion clinics. Though some argument could be made that they're "harmful", they still don't claim to do something that they can't, and equal arguments could be made that having a child would be a burden on the individual and on society, and that having a child would be more harmful than the theoretical harm of having an abortion.

You do realize all of your words and characterizations are subjective, right? You say these institutions are harmful and fraudulent. Anti-abortion activists call abortion clinics harmful (even murderous) and immoral, illegal.

Also, while it may be biologically impossible to alter one's sexual attraction, if one wishes to be brainwashed why should we be able to stop them? There are many religious institutions that I believe are harmful to people and brainwash them against their natural instincts (for example, BBQ pork smells amazing, but I've been brainwashed by schools and groups to not be able to bring myself to eat it). Nevertheless, we can't dictate what private institutions individuals can choose to go to.

Right to privacy, right to choose. Principals are principals and you can't accept them when you like it and throw them out the window when you don't.

^
This.

I would say that I am a bit disgusted by what DWTL and NCYankee are saying (no offense guys, I'm still on your side in many respects).

A bit?

[Хahar 🤔]

Aye


I believe the "life, liberty, and the pursuit" provision would make this unconstitutional as is currently written. While the argument can (and should) be made that minors do not always know what is best for them and what makes them happy, who are we to tell people what makes them happy and what is harmful. They have the right to choose for themselves, otherwise you open the door to legislation banning abortion clinics.

EDIT: And please no straw men on this. The current bill could lead to conservatives attempting to pass legislation that says that, due to the psychological impact abortion can have on people, clinics should be closed. This bill opens the door to further government meddling in a person's right to privacy and choice.

Uh, no? What crooked connection does shutting down harmful and fraudulent businesses have with shutting down abortion clinics because they cause stress? We want to shut these people down because they claim to do something that's a biological impossibility, through psychologically and physically harmful means. (Downright brainwashing.)

There is no comparison to shutting down abortion clinics. Though some argument could be made that they're "harmful", they still don't claim to do something that they can't, and equal arguments could be made that having a child would be a burden on the individual and on society, and that having a child would be more harmful than the theoretical harm of having an abortion.

You do realize all of your words and characterizations are subjective, right? You say these institutions are harmful and fraudulent. Anti-abortion activists call abortion clinics harmful (even murderous) and immoral, illegal.

Also, while it may be biologically impossible to alter one's sexual attraction, if one wishes to be brainwashed why should we be able to stop them? There are many religious institutions that I believe are harmful to people and brainwash them against their natural instincts (for example, BBQ pork smells amazing, but I've been brainwashed by schools and groups to not be able to bring myself to eat it). Nevertheless, we can't dictate what private institutions individuals can choose to go to.

Right to privacy, right to choose. Principals are principals and you can't accept them when you like it and throw them out the window when you don't.

^
This.

I would say that I am a bit disgusted by what DWTL and NCYankee are saying (no offense guys, I'm still on your side in many respects).

A bit?

Well... (holds back rant on the issue), sigh, I don't want to get in a fight with people above me in my party.

The RPP is quite the cabal, isn't it?

[Хahar 🤔]

I'm happy we could come to some sort of middle ground on this.

Aren't you always?