Liberals Ready to Abandon Abortion as an Issue

[Smash255]

What you have to remember is that any decision like this is made out of some pretty cold electoral calculation. If the Democrats drop abortion as an issue they obvious reckon that there's more votes to be gained (sorry, regained) out of it than votes that'd be lost due to it.
Political geography plays a role too; a vote in (say) Southeast Ohio is worth more than a vote in (say) suburban New York.

It gets quite quirky because virtually every poll shows that between 55-60% believe abortion should be always or mostly legal, and 65% or so believe roe vs wade should not be overturned.  However as you do point out more votes could be gained by them dropping the issue.  Thos e in suburban NY (me for example) may not like the fact they are dropping the abortion issue, but in the end of the day will still vote Dem, meanwhile somone in Southern Ohio dropping abortion may get that  vote.

However I still think the Dems should keep the issue.  It is something most of the country agrees with the Democrats on

[Smash255]

Well, if the Democratic Party makes a clear shift from being pro-choice to pro-life, I'd very much welcome that. There are quite a few pro-life Democrats on the Forum

Then the >60% of Americans who are pro-choice would have no major party that represents their views. 

Polling Report's list of abortion polls

All the polls I saw with the self-indentified pro-choice/pro-life question show a 50/50 split (within MOE).  Polls that offer the choices of abortion: always/mostly/rarely/never legal routinely show a majority favoring the rarely or never options.  Large majorities in several polls favor greater restrictions or outright bans on abortion.  Specific issues such as parental notification laws or partial-birth bans have support in the 70s and 80s.

Ummm Say what???

NBC poll May 12-16

"Which of the following best represents your views about abortion? The choice on abortion should be left up to the woman and her doctor. Abortion should be legal only in cases in which pregnancy results from rape or incest or when the life of the woman is at risk. OR, Abortion should be illegal in all circumstances."

Woman & Doctor 55%, Rape, Incest Life of Woman 29%, Always Illegal 14%, Unsure 2%

ABC Poll from late April

"Do you think abortion should be legal in all cases, legal in most cases, illegal in most cases, or illegal in all cases?"

                        

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"Do you think abortion should be legal in all cases, legal in most cases, illegal in most cases, or illegal in all cases?"

Legal in All cases 20%, Legal in Most Caes 36%, illegal in most cases 27%, always illegal 14%  Legal in all or most cases 56%, illegal in most or all cases 41%

Pew Research Poll June 8th -12th

"In 1973 the Roe versus Wade decision established a woman's constitutional right to an abortion, at least in the first three months of pregnancy. Would you like to see the Supreme Court completely overturn its Roe versus Wade decision, or not?"

Yes 30%, No 63%

While their is more of a split between those considering themselves pro-choice & pro-life, most feel that abortion should be legal in most or all cases.

Other polls on the site about sometimes legal, & when that gets added into the mix (sometimes legal gets the most support), but about 3/4 to 4/5 feel abortion should be at least sometimes legal.

Out of all the polls on polling report regardin g the always, mostly legal, mostly & always illegal (or usually legal, usually illegal) etc, their is one poll (LA Times that shows) more feel that it should be mostly or always illegal.  EVERY OTHER POLL with that type of questioning is in favor of abortion being always or mostly legal (usually between 55-60% in the always or msotly/usually legal range with around 40% in the always or mostly/usually illegal range.  & when sometimes is added to the mix mostly or sometimes legal jumps to near 80%

[Smash255]

The radical screaming raving looney wacko leftist pro abortion on demand femi nazis in the Democratic party would never allow such a proposal to even be debated let alone countenance a change in the Dem platform on the abortion issue.  Most of them even support partial birth abortions, which is another name for baby killing.

I guess your calling Rudy Giuliani a baby killer.  Te debate over the PBA had to do with their not being an exception for the health of the mother

[Smash255]

Legal in All cases 20%, Legal in Most Caes 36%, illegal in most cases 27%, always illegal 14%  Legal in all or most cases 56%, illegal in most or all cases 41%

You can spin that as a 56/41 split if you like... but there's a huge difference between "mostly legal" and "always legal" int there?
You can also spin that as a 77/20 split (restrictions or no restrictions).
Statistics are fun, no?

Alternatively instead of trying to polarise people for no good reason you can have a 20/63/14 split

Their is a much bigger difference between mostly legal and mostly illegal.  Bottom line is the majority of American support abortion rights

[Smash255]

Well, if the Democratic Party makes a clear shift from being pro-choice to pro-life, I'd very much welcome that. There are quite a few pro-life Democrats on the Forum

Then the >60% of Americans who are pro-choice would have no major party that represents their views. 

Polling Report's list of abortion polls

All the polls I saw with the self-indentified pro-choice/pro-life question show a 50/50 split (within MOE).  Polls that offer the choices of abortion: always/mostly/rarely/never legal routinely show a majority favoring the rarely or never options.  Large majorities in several polls favor greater restrictions or outright bans on abortion.  Specific issues such as parental notification laws or partial-birth bans have support in the 70s and 80s.

Ummm Say what???

There's a lot of polls there, so let's start with the claim you made that >60% of Americans are pro-choice.  There are three sets of polls that ask for self-indentification as pro-chioce or pro-life:

Gallup Poll (19 polls, 1996-2005)
Average self-indentified pro-chioce: 49%
Only 6 of the 19 polls had 50% or greater, and the most recent 6 were <50%

FOX News/Opinion Dynamics Poll (9 polls, 1999-2005)
Average self-indentified pro-chioce: 43%
Only 1 of these polls was over 45% (47%)

Time/CNN Poll (Harris, 4 polls, 1999-2003)
Average self-indentified pro-chioce: 47%
None above 50%

It is clear that people who consider themselves pro-choice has never been >60% and that the number is probably less than 50%.

Once again while the split is closer for pro-choice & pro-life, the majority of Americans support abortion rights

[Smash255]

Their is a much bigger difference between mostly legal and mostly illegal.

Legally perhaps. Morally... no. Not really. See... that's the problem with the abortion debate; been mentioned by several posters before that there's really *two* debates going on.

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Bottom line is that the overwhelming majority of Americans are moderate on the abortion issue

Americans feel the courts should keep abortion legal by greater than a 2-1 margin

[Smash255]

They also support a partial-birth abortion ban, which the courts have struck down, by a 2 to 1 margin.

Didn't the court strike in down due to not having an exemption for the mother's health??

While most are against PBA, most feel their should at least be an exemption for the health of the mother

[Smash255]

Americans may want Roe v. Wade to stay in place, but very few want all abortions, or even nearly all abortions to be legal, as many Democrats pushed.  And, nearly all Americans at least to some extent would like to see the abortion rate drop.  The satanist NARAL groups and such seem to actually like slaughtering babies, and as long as they are a force in the Democratic Party we will lose.  I'm not saying the public leans right on abortion, but I am saying the Republicans are closer to where the public is.

 CBS News/New York Times Poll. Feb. 24-28, 2005. N=1,111 adults nationwide. MoE ±  3.
                  

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"Regardless of how you usually vote, which party comes closer to sharing your view on abortion: the Democratic Party or the Republican Party?"

Democratic Party 45%,  Republican Party 35%

[Smash255]

I will always be pro-choice, and will do everything in my power to keep the party on that track.

That's fine. Just quit trying to pack the courts.

Pack the courts? We're the ones trying to pack the courts?

Putting people on the judiciary to legislate from the bench is definitely packing the courts.

You mean the same way that many in the GOP were whining about the court not getting involved & not legislating from the bench in the whole Schiavo matter

[Smash255]

I will always be pro-choice, and will do everything in my power to keep the party on that track.

That's fine. Just quit trying to pack the courts.

Pack the courts? We're the ones trying to pack the courts?

Putting people on the judiciary to legislate from the bench is definitely packing the courts.

You mean the same way that many in the GOP were whining about the court not getting involved & not legislating from the bench in the whole Schiavo matter

1. I never supported that.
2. The Congress passed a law... upholding it is not 'legislating from the bench'

They wound up passing the law because the courts refused to legislate from the bench

[Smash255]

Winfield, why don't you mind your own business?

I don't get all bent out of shape if you remove your spleen or some such part.

I beg your pardon?  My own business?

I, or anyone else, can express themselves on this issue, or any other as they see fit, thank you very much.

And your comparison of a "spleen or some such part" to a helpless infant is, to say the least, in extremely bad taste. 

The point is you are proposing interference in someone elses internal organs.  Talk about intrusive government!

Couldn't possibly have any bearing on you.

If you or anyone else whish to condone baby killing by disguising it as "choice", that's your own decision. 

The character and worth of a nation is determined by how they treat the most helpless and vulnerable in society.

Something that can't live outside the womb is certaintly not a baby