Labour Party (UK) Leadership Election, 2016

[Blair]

to sum up the poll I'm being asked to go to a fundraiser tomorrow for Owen's campaign, on a cheaper ticket.

I doubt that 19 year old students are the types with lots of money flowing around- heck I already gave him 5 quid and the ticket for this thing costs 10 quid.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Would treat the poll mostly as a benchmark of expectations as the figures don't scream WHAT?!?! in either direction.

Though I will repeat an earlier point...

...even if there was one there would be inevitable question marks (given the above issue) as to accuracy.

I will also add: please do not overanalyse the internals, thnx.

[Zanas]

I will leave this here...

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[Filuwaúrdjan]

Marxists all write basically the same argument in the same style these days don't they.

[Antonio the Sixth]

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I actually agree with this, but in the opposite way.

Smith represents politics, for the better and for the worse. Corbyn represents the empty posturing of people who don't actually care about making a difference in people's lives, as long as they can feel morally superior for being a "principled leftist".

[SPQR]

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I actually agree with this, but in the opposite way.

Smith represents politics, for the better and for the worse. Corbyn represents the empty posturing of people who don't actually care about making a difference in people's lives, as long as they can feel morally superior for being a "principled leftist".

I fully agree.
Actually,I was expecting the article to be pro-Smith after reading those lines.

[Oakvale]

I will leave this here...

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Did Snowstalker write this?

[Joe Republic]

I will leave this here...

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Did Snowstalker write this?

The article continues:

"Indeed, to put this contest another way, were it not for the wise words of Thomas Sankara;"

[Famous Mortimer]

Sam Kriss is pretty terrible in general. He mostly writes clickbait-y articles for Jacobin about how "Suicide Squad is a metaphor for neo-liberalism" or things like that.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Sam Kriss is pretty terrible in general. He mostly writes clickbait-y articles for Jacobin about how "Suicide Squad is a metaphor for neo-liberalism" or things like that.

There are things about this piece that I really appreciated, but other than that, yeah, he's sh**t.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

He mostly writes clickbait-y articles for Jacobin...

Figures.

[Phony Moderate]

Smith represents politics, for the better and for the worse.

It's not as deep as that; Smith represents those who want to see Jeremy Corbyn out as Labour leader. If he represents politics then he's not very good at it.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Smith represents politics, for the better and for the worse.

It's not as deep as that; Smith represents those who want to see Jeremy Corbyn out as Labour leader. If he represents politics then he's not very good at it.

Politics isn't always good politics.

The point is that politics is about at least trying to wield some power, to have a transformative influence on the reality around you. Corbyn doesn't give a sh*t about the reality around him. All he wants is ideological purity, even if this leads him to utter irrelevance.

[Zanas]

Smith represents politics, for the better and for the worse.

It's not as deep as that; Smith represents those who want to see Jeremy Corbyn out as Labour leader. If he represents politics then he's not very good at it.

Politics isn't always good politics.

The point is that politics is about at least trying to wield some power, to have a transformative influence on the reality around you. Corbyn doesn't give a sh*t about the reality around him. All he wants is ideological purity, even if this leads him to utter irrelevance.

Do you really think the likes of Smith want to have a transformative influence on anything relevant ? Are you that deluded ? It's a bit sad. They want power, yes, but they don't want to actually do anything of it, and they end up just reinforcing the powers already existent, as shown by the whole Hollande experience. But, ok, I realize I'm now among the most far-leftists here, so I'll dial it down a notch.

[warandwar]

Sam Kriss is pretty terrible in general. He mostly writes clickbait-y articles for Jacobin about how "Suicide Squad is a metaphor for neo-liberalism" or things like that.

There are things about this piece that I really appreciated, but other than that, yeah, he's sh**t.

His take on Milo for VICE was pretty good too.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Smith represents politics, for the better and for the worse.

It's not as deep as that; Smith represents those who want to see Jeremy Corbyn out as Labour leader. If he represents politics then he's not very good at it.

Politics isn't always good politics.

The point is that politics is about at least trying to wield some power, to have a transformative influence on the reality around you. Corbyn doesn't give a sh*t about the reality around him. All he wants is ideological purity, even if this leads him to utter irrelevance.

Do you really think the likes of Smith want to have a transformative influence on anything relevant ? Are you that deluded ? It's a bit sad. They want power, yes, but they don't want to actually do anything of it, and they end up just reinforcing the powers already existent, as shown by the whole Hollande experience. But, ok, I realize I'm now among the most far-leftists here, so I'll dial it down a notch.

Because obviously anyone even slightly to the right of Corbyn's stale, dogmatic brand of far-leftism is just as bad as Hollande. Right.

[Zanas]

FWIW, I don't think Corbyn is far-left by any definition. He's a bland keynesian at best.

[Slow Learner]

FWIW, I don't think Corbyn is far-left by any definition. He's a bland keynesian at best.

ok then brother gg

[Antonio the Sixth]

FWIW, I don't think Corbyn is far-left by any definition. He's a bland keynesian at best.

And what is Smith then? An evil neoliberal Blairite crypto-Thatcherist? On what basis exactly?

[Zanas]

FWIW, I don't think Corbyn is far-left by any definition. He's a bland keynesian at best.

And what is Smith then? An evil neoliberal Blairite crypto-Thatcherist? On what basis exactly?

Mainly on the basis of trolling everyone around here. But, yeah, I've shifted to the left quite a bit in the last year or so.

[Antonio the Sixth]

FWIW, I don't think Corbyn is far-left by any definition. He's a bland keynesian at best.

And what is Smith then? An evil neoliberal Blairite crypto-Thatcherist? On what basis exactly?

Mainly on the basis of trolling everyone around here. But, yeah, I've shifted to the left quite a bit in the last year or so.

Oh well, you were already more leftist than me beforehand, so I can barely imagine now.

Seriously though, I really don't like the implication that anyone with a shed of pragmatism about how to achieve left-wing principles is always necessarily a sellout. That's clearly a false dichotomy.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Politics can't make people happy and people who believe otherwise are just setting themselves up to be destroyed emotionally.

[warandwar]

FWIW, I don't think Corbyn is far-left by any definition. He's a bland keynesian at best.

And what is Smith then? An evil neoliberal Blairite crypto-Thatcherist? On what basis exactly?

Mainly on the basis of trolling everyone around here. But, yeah, I've shifted to the left quite a bit in the last year or so.

Oh well, you were already more leftist than me beforehand, so I can barely imagine now.

Seriously though, I really don't like the implication that anyone with a shed of pragmatism about how to achieve left-wing principles is always necessarily a sellout. That's clearly a false dichotomy.

I see what you're saying, but I think if some fetishize being "principled" in lieu of capacity for action, plenty are guilty of fetishizing "pragmatism" as well.

[Antonio the Sixth]

FWIW, I don't think Corbyn is far-left by any definition. He's a bland keynesian at best.

And what is Smith then? An evil neoliberal Blairite crypto-Thatcherist? On what basis exactly?

Mainly on the basis of trolling everyone around here. But, yeah, I've shifted to the left quite a bit in the last year or so.

Oh well, you were already more leftist than me beforehand, so I can barely imagine now.

Seriously though, I really don't like the implication that anyone with a shed of pragmatism about how to achieve left-wing principles is always necessarily a sellout. That's clearly a false dichotomy.

I see what you're saying, but I think if some fetishize being "principled" in lieu of capacity for action, plenty are guilty of fetishizing "pragmatism" as well.

Well, duh. As a matter of fact, I've spent far more time calling out the latter on their bullsh*t than I have calling out the former on their bullsh*t - including on this very forum.

[Blair]

For what its worth I've just seen the internal phone bank data from the Smith Campaign.

Corbyn 45% Smith 39% Dk: 14%