Russia-Ukraine war and related tensions Megathread
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
May 09, 2024, 06:54:58 AM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Politics
  International General Discussion (Moderators: afleitch, Hash)
  Russia-Ukraine war and related tensions Megathread
« previous next »
Thread note
ATTENTION: Please note that copyright rules still apply to posts in this thread. You cannot post entire articles verbatim. Please select only a couple paragraphs or snippets that highlights the point of what you are posting.


Pages: 1 ... 539 540 541 542 543 [544] 545 546 547 548 549 ... 1166
Author Topic: Russia-Ukraine war and related tensions Megathread  (Read 898919 times)
NOVA Green
Oregon Progressive
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 11,475
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13575 on: August 24, 2022, 10:24:57 AM »

Another Russian collaborator in Ukraine dies in car bombing.

Quote
Vladimir Rogov, a member of the administration council in Russian-occupied Zaporizhzhia, a region in southeastern Ukraine, said in a Telegram post that Ivan Sushko, the Moscow-backed administrator of the village of Mykhailivka, died of injuries sustained after an explosive device planted under the seat of his car detonated while he was driving.

In a separate post, Rogov said Sushko’s adopted daughter had also been in the car at the time of the explosion. She survived without critical injuries, he added. Rogov shared surveillance footage he said showed the explosion. In the video, time-stamped 8 a.m. Wednesday, a large cloud engulfs a car rolling into view. Subsequent footage, supposedly taken at the scene, shows a burned-out silver SUV. Blood can be seen at the base of the driver’s side door.

“The terrorist entity UGIL must be destroyed!” Rogov wrote, referring to Ukraine with a Russian abbreviation meant to invoke a comparison to the Islamic State.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/08/24/russia-ukraine-war-6-months-live-updates/#link-TRV3BDL6IVEL5ALCOQJCF4PEYQ


Logged
Woody
SirWoodbury
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,130


Political Matrix
E: 1.48, S: 1.30

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13576 on: August 24, 2022, 11:10:30 AM »

Logged
jaichind
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 27,684
United States


Political Matrix
E: 9.03, S: -5.39

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13577 on: August 24, 2022, 11:14:33 AM »

https://www.politico.eu/article/vice-president-of-the-german-parliament-calls-for-activation-of-nord-stream-2/

"Activate Nord Stream 2 ASAP, says German parliament vice president"

FDP German parliament vice president wants to turn on NS2 on a temp basis to get more Russian gas to mitigate the energy crisis.
Logged
Storr
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,279
Moldova, Republic of


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13578 on: August 24, 2022, 11:34:47 AM »

The Nova Kakhovka bridge appears to be very heavily damaged:



Video of the strikes on the bridge:





Logged
Storr
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,279
Moldova, Republic of


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13579 on: August 24, 2022, 01:08:50 PM »

The Nova Kakhovka bridge appears to be very heavily damaged:



Video of the strikes on the bridge:







When the meme becomes reality:

Logged
The Dowager Mod
texasgurl
Moderators
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,973
United States


Political Matrix
E: -9.48, S: -8.57

P P P

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13580 on: August 24, 2022, 01:14:05 PM »

 Cheesy lol
Logged
jaichind
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 27,684
United States


Political Matrix
E: 9.03, S: -5.39

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13581 on: August 24, 2022, 02:32:33 PM »

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/24/macron-warns-of-end-of-abundance-as-france-faces-difficult-winter

"Macron warns of ‘end of abundance’ as France faces difficult winter"
Logged
Storr
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,279
Moldova, Republic of


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13582 on: August 24, 2022, 02:47:53 PM »

Logged
President Punxsutawney Phil
TimTurner
Atlas Politician
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 41,518
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13583 on: August 24, 2022, 02:49:04 PM »


How much does this actually harm Ukrainian logistics?
Logged
President Punxsutawney Phil
TimTurner
Atlas Politician
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 41,518
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13584 on: August 24, 2022, 02:54:01 PM »

Yikes.

"Mindful of how Poland was unwilling to let Soviet troops through to help Czechoslovakia  in 1938, Moscow insisted that its Eastern European neighbors allow the Red Army to pass in the event of an attack by Nazi Germany, but was refused." [Gee, I wonder why?]

"The real threat of a war on two fronts left the Soviet Union no choice."

"Thanks to the Soviet-German non aggression pact, the war began on more advantageous borders for the Soviet Union, and hundred of thousands of lives were saved."


But that has been the USSR/Russian position for decades.  Another point they make which they have a point is that Poland actually participated in the partition of Czechoslovakia in Munich in 1938 and annexed territories from Czechoslovakia which included the railway junction city of Bohumín so Poland has no moral right to complain when they became a target of partition between Germany and USSR in 1939.
It's fairly clear that the Molotov-Ribbentrop deal brought additional security to the Soviet Union and Putin is indeed correct to say that it did this.
But the fact he's bringing this up now is very much a tell as to what the current environment in Europe is, right about now.
Logged
Pericles
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 17,127


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13585 on: August 24, 2022, 05:05:42 PM »

Yikes.

"Mindful of how Poland was unwilling to let Soviet troops through to help Czechoslovakia  in 1938, Moscow insisted that its Eastern European neighbors allow the Red Army to pass in the event of an attack by Nazi Germany, but was refused." [Gee, I wonder why?]

"The real threat of a war on two fronts left the Soviet Union no choice."

"Thanks to the Soviet-German non aggression pact, the war began on more advantageous borders for the Soviet Union, and hundred of thousands of lives were saved."


But that has been the USSR/Russian position for decades.  Another point they make which they have a point is that Poland actually participated in the partition of Czechoslovakia in Munich in 1938 and annexed territories from Czechoslovakia which included the railway junction city of Bohumín so Poland has no moral right to complain when they became a target of partition between Germany and USSR in 1939.
It's fairly clear that the Molotov-Ribbentrop deal brought additional security to the Soviet Union and Putin is indeed correct to say that it did this.
But the fact he's bringing this up now is very much a tell as to what the current environment in Europe is, right about now.

Not at all, Germany would have struggled much more fighting four countries rather than being able to focus almost entirely on the USSR alone, and their army was actually stronger in 1941 than in was in 1939.
Logged
President Punxsutawney Phil
TimTurner
Atlas Politician
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 41,518
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13586 on: August 24, 2022, 05:21:53 PM »
« Edited: August 24, 2022, 05:40:42 PM by Southern Delegate and Atlasian AG Punxsutawney Phil »

Yikes.

"Mindful of how Poland was unwilling to let Soviet troops through to help Czechoslovakia  in 1938, Moscow insisted that its Eastern European neighbors allow the Red Army to pass in the event of an attack by Nazi Germany, but was refused." [Gee, I wonder why?]

"The real threat of a war on two fronts left the Soviet Union no choice."

"Thanks to the Soviet-German non aggression pact, the war began on more advantageous borders for the Soviet Union, and hundred of thousands of lives were saved."


But that has been the USSR/Russian position for decades.  Another point they make which they have a point is that Poland actually participated in the partition of Czechoslovakia in Munich in 1938 and annexed territories from Czechoslovakia which included the railway junction city of Bohumín so Poland has no moral right to complain when they became a target of partition between Germany and USSR in 1939.
It's fairly clear that the Molotov-Ribbentrop deal brought additional security to the Soviet Union and Putin is indeed correct to say that it did this.
But the fact he's bringing this up now is very much a tell as to what the current environment in Europe is, right about now.

Not at all, Germany would have struggled much more fighting four countries rather than being able to focus almost entirely on the USSR alone, and their army was actually stronger in 1941 than in was in 1939.
Didn't the Soviets try to get such a grand alliance together, only for those plans to fall through due to anti-communist sentiment? Stalin was a cautious man and the last thing he wanted was for the Soviet Union to be a battleground. Seems like the alternative to Molotov-Ribbentrop was not "some united anti-Nazi front", but Germans being mere, what, 600 miles from Moscow? How do you justify that, when it had been a mere two dozen years since the Germans defeated Russia in the east...while having to make up much more ground.

This is the north European plain, the more land the more security.
Logged
jaichind
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 27,684
United States


Political Matrix
E: 9.03, S: -5.39

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13587 on: August 24, 2022, 05:29:27 PM »

Yikes.

"Mindful of how Poland was unwilling to let Soviet troops through to help Czechoslovakia  in 1938, Moscow insisted that its Eastern European neighbors allow the Red Army to pass in the event of an attack by Nazi Germany, but was refused." [Gee, I wonder why?]

"The real threat of a war on two fronts left the Soviet Union no choice."

"Thanks to the Soviet-German non aggression pact, the war began on more advantageous borders for the Soviet Union, and hundred of thousands of lives were saved."


But that has been the USSR/Russian position for decades.  Another point they make which they have a point is that Poland actually participated in the partition of Czechoslovakia in Munich in 1938 and annexed territories from Czechoslovakia which included the railway junction city of Bohumín so Poland has no moral right to complain when they became a target of partition between Germany and USSR in 1939.
It's fairly clear that the Molotov-Ribbentrop deal brought additional security to the Soviet Union and Putin is indeed correct to say that it did this.
But the fact he's bringing this up now is very much a tell as to what the current environment in Europe is, right about now.

Clearly, Putin is bringing this up to cover his flank on the "Nazi" issue since he is accusing the Ukrainians of being pro-Nazi.  On the issue of Stalin's motives, he was convinced that USA UK, and France were trying to turn Hitler's military might toward the USSR so he felt he had to turn the "sword of Hitler" back toward the West.
Logged
NOVA Green
Oregon Progressive
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 11,475
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13588 on: August 25, 2022, 12:05:35 AM »

Meanwhile a bit shocked that nobody on this thread has yet mentioned how the spread of Russian style fascism is even taking out extremely popular mayors in large cities.

Quote
Russian authorities detained the former mayor of Yekaterinburg for allegedly discrediting the Russian armed forces, part of the Kremlin’s efforts to suppress criticism of its war in Ukraine.

Yevgeny Roizman, an outspoken critic of President Vladimir Putin and one of the last prominent Kremlin opponents who hasn’t fled Russia or been jailed, was detained Wednesday at his home in Yekaterinburg, the fourth-largest city in Russia.

Leyla Guseynova, Mr. Roizman’s assistant, said law-enforcement officials had searched his home, the Roizman Fund and a museum he founded. She said a few business cards from his home and a couple of laptops from the fund were confiscated.

Ms. Guseynova said Mr. Roizman had been detained for discrediting Russia’s armed forces and could spend three years in prison, under a section of a law adopted in the wake of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. Under other legislation, people who are found guilty of knowingly distributing false information about the army can face up to 15 years in prison.

Quote
Last month, Mr. Roizman told The Wall Street Journal he had “no illusions” about his future, even though he didn’t want to go to prison. “But I am not scared and I will of course not run from my country and I will stand until the end,” he said.

Mr. Roizman was speaking after another opposition politician, Ilya Yashin, was placed in pretrial detention on charges of spreading false information about alleged war crimes committed by Russian forces.

After Mr. Yashin was detained, Mr. Roizman was scrolling through his photo archives when he came upon one of himself, Mr. Yashin and two other opposition politicians on stage at an event in Moscow last spring. At the time, Mr. Roizman was the only one still not behind bars.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/russia-detains-putin-critic-ex-mayor-on-charges-of-discrediting-military-11661355890





Logged
The Dowager Mod
texasgurl
Moderators
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,973
United States


Political Matrix
E: -9.48, S: -8.57

P P P

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13589 on: August 25, 2022, 09:34:04 AM »

Reeks of desperation.
Logged
Sir Mohamed
MohamedChalid
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 22,761
United States



Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13590 on: August 25, 2022, 09:46:03 AM »

So this pretty much comes close to a general draft? Or anything Putin could do below that? I thought he wanted to avoid a general mobilization because it may risk more backlash?

The question also is what kind of forces these will be. Just a higher number of personell does accomplish little, especially with a lack of training. This is more than a numbers game. If they're untrained and sent into battle, it's basically just a suicide squad.
Logged
Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,229
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13591 on: August 25, 2022, 10:18:20 AM »

So this pretty much comes close to a general draft? Or anything Putin could do below that? I thought he wanted to avoid a general mobilization because it may risk more backlash?

The question also is what kind of forces these will be. Just a higher number of personell does accomplish little, especially with a lack of training. This is more than a numbers game. If they're untrained and sent into battle, it's basically just a suicide squad.

137K people doesn't sound like a general draft to me. And yeah, it will take a while before they are anywhere close to combat-ready.

Still, definitely a sign that Putin is ready to drag this out. And therefore we also should make it clear we're ready to stand by Ukraine for the long haul.
Logged
jaichind
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 27,684
United States


Political Matrix
E: 9.03, S: -5.39

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13592 on: August 25, 2022, 12:42:01 PM »

https://usun.usmission.gov/joint-statement-on-six-months-of-russias-full-scale-invasion-of-ukraine/

UN statement on the 6th month of the start of the Russia-Ukraine war.  58 UN members (which is less than 1/3 of UN members) signed up.  Pretty much the core collective West states and allies but nothing else.  The only "swing" votes this statement got is Türkiye and Singapore.
Logged
jaichind
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 27,684
United States


Political Matrix
E: 9.03, S: -5.39

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13593 on: August 25, 2022, 12:43:57 PM »

Reeks of desperation.


If I recall in 2005 the USA also had a 80K surge in the size of military force as the Iraq War was dragging on with no end in sieght.
Logged
jaichind
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 27,684
United States


Political Matrix
E: 9.03, S: -5.39

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13594 on: August 25, 2022, 12:48:07 PM »

https://www.montelnews.com/news/1345777/french-prices-soar-to-new-highs-on-nuclear-outages

"French prices soar to new highs on nuclear outages"

Another surge in France's power prices on news of nuclear plant outages.

Logged
Storr
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,279
Moldova, Republic of


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13595 on: August 25, 2022, 12:51:24 PM »

What autumn will be like in the trenches (loud music warning):



Edit: Bonus useful explanation about Ukrainian fall weather in the comments of the above post:

Logged
jaichind
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 27,684
United States


Political Matrix
E: 9.03, S: -5.39

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13596 on: August 25, 2022, 01:01:11 PM »

What autumn will be like in the trenches (loud music warning):



Edit: Bonus useful explanation about Ukrainian fall weather in the comments of the above post:



Historically in this region, it was the Rasputitsa of March to May that tended to stop campaign season due to "general mud."  After the Third battle of Kharkov in March 1943 fighting mostly stopped in the Ukraine region until the battle of Kursk in early July.

Once the 1943 summer campaign started in Ukraine the fighting continued until April 1944 when it came to a stop again due to Rasputitsa and exhaustion of both sides.


Logged
jaichind
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 27,684
United States


Political Matrix
E: 9.03, S: -5.39

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13597 on: August 25, 2022, 01:16:59 PM »

https://oopstop.com/in-kyiv-95-streets-were-renamed-the-names-of-which-are-associated-with-russia-and-the-ussr/

"In Kyiv, 95 streets were renamed, the names of which are associated with Russia and the USSR"

Changes include "Marshal Malinovsky Street" is now "Heroes of Azov Regiment Street", "Tula Square" is now "Heroes of UPA Square".

They have a perfect right to do this.  I just think regardless of the current situation it is unwise to hand to Russia the legacy of the Great Patriotic War.  Now Russia will be able to hog the entire legacy and credit for victory in the Great Patriotic War something I am sure Putin would very much want.
Logged
President Punxsutawney Phil
TimTurner
Atlas Politician
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 41,518
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13598 on: August 25, 2022, 01:23:22 PM »
« Edited: August 25, 2022, 01:28:41 PM by Southern Delegate and Atlasian AG Punxsutawney Phil »

https://oopstop.com/in-kyiv-95-streets-were-renamed-the-names-of-which-are-associated-with-russia-and-the-ussr/

"In Kyiv, 95 streets were renamed, the names of which are associated with Russia and the USSR"

Changes include "Marshal Malinovsky Street" is now "Heroes of Azov Regiment Street", "Tula Square" is now "Heroes of UPA Square".

They have a perfect right to do this.  I just think regardless of the current situation it is unwise to hand to Russia the legacy of the Great Patriotic War.  Now Russia will be able to hog the entire legacy and credit for victory in the Great Patriotic War something I am sure Putin would very much want.
This seems like the exact opposite of what Ukraine would ideally do. Ukraine could have highlighted the Ukrainian contribution to the Soviet war effort and even highlighted how Zelensky's grandfather fought in the Red Army against the Nazis as evidence of Ukraine's credentials in the face of utterly ludicrous Russian propaganda. Instead we see them do this. It's an unforced error in an information war that they've played incredibly well overall.
In fact, Ukrainians were, (I believe) the biggest contributors of soldiers on the Soviet side in the "Great Patriotic War" if you adjust for population and rank it per capita. In this capacity, they helped save the world.
Logged
jaichind
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 27,684
United States


Political Matrix
E: 9.03, S: -5.39

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13599 on: August 25, 2022, 01:35:48 PM »

https://oopstop.com/in-kyiv-95-streets-were-renamed-the-names-of-which-are-associated-with-russia-and-the-ussr/

"In Kyiv, 95 streets were renamed, the names of which are associated with Russia and the USSR"

Changes include "Marshal Malinovsky Street" is now "Heroes of Azov Regiment Street", "Tula Square" is now "Heroes of UPA Square".

They have a perfect right to do this.  I just think regardless of the current situation it is unwise to hand to Russia the legacy of the Great Patriotic War.  Now Russia will be able to hog the entire legacy and credit for victory in the Great Patriotic War something I am sure Putin would very much want.
This seems like the exact opposite of what Ukraine would ideally do. Ukraine could have highlighted the Ukrainian contribution to the Soviet war effort and even highlighted how Zelensky's grandfather fought in the Red Army against the Nazis as evidence of Ukraine's credentials in the face of utterly ludicrous Russian propaganda. Instead we see them do this. It's an unforced error in an information war that they've played incredibly well overall.
In fact, Ukrainians were, (I believe) the biggest contributors of soldiers on the Soviet side in the "Great Patriotic War" if you adjust for population and rank it per capita. In this capacity, they helped save the world.

Well, they had to pick one narrative or another for WWII.  Either they view themselves as part of the USSR's struggle against Germany or they view themselves as Ukrainian nationalists fighting against both. By picking UPA (Ukrainian Insurgent Army) they make their choice. 

BTW, by doing this I suspect the next step is for Wikipedia to change its entry for UPA

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Soviet_resistance_by_the_Ukrainian_Insurgent_Army

To remove

Quote
OUN-UPA was a terrorist organization, relying on terrorist tactics and collaboration with Nazi Germany that favoured the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN) at the expense of more moderate Ukrainian organizations but not all UPA soldiers were members of the OUN or shared OUN’s ideology. UPA is also responsible for the large-scale ethnic cleansing of Poles, the mass murder of Jews as well as Ukrainians during the World War II and post-war anti-Soviet terror campaign in Western Ukraine

This reads a lot like Putin and Russian government propaganda and has to be removed ASAP.

I will say that the Russians should not overplay this on the other side and just assign to UPA the label "Nazi".  The fact is that UPA fought against both USSR and Germany although I agree they saved most of their fire for the Red Army.
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 539 540 541 542 543 [544] 545 546 547 548 549 ... 1166  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.167 seconds with 11 queries.