Conservative Party of Canada Leadership Race Megathread-May 27th 2017

[RogueBeaver]

Moore isn't running. Rest is usual stuff from usual suspects - hoped for better from Ibbitson. Like say, interviewing a single Blue MP.

[136or142]

Moore isn't running. Rest is usual stuff from usual suspects - hoped for better from Ibbitson. Like say, interviewing a single Blue MP.

Ibbitson is a moron.

[2952-0-0]

It's quite amusing, a whole puff piece in Caroline Mulroney that doesn't say a single solitary word about what her views are on anything. Let's just remind ourselves that the next CPC leader will be elected by rank and file CPC members...and who are they? Largely evangelical Christians, redneck gun nuts and a lot of grumpy old men who with no post secondary education.

Come on, not *all* CPC members are like that. There are plenty who are socially moderate and merely want to make it easier to run their business.

There have been stories about Wall taking French lessons for years, this is nothing new...no one ever seems to have actually heard him utter a single word in French so Perhaps the lessons aren't going very well.

Unless he can overpower the incumbent native Francophone in a debate over corporate tax policy, he's jut not ready.

[MaxQue]

Moore isn't running. Rest is usual stuff from usual suspects - hoped for better from Ibbitson. Like say, interviewing a single Blue MP.

Since when they are allowed to talk to journalists?

[DL]

In a year end interview with the Regina Leader Post, brad wall goes even further in denying any federal ambitions. He says has NOT been taking any French lessons and remains unilingual. So GONG

[136or142]

In a year end interview with the Regina Leader Post, brad wall goes even further in denying any federal ambitions. He says has NOT been taking any French lessons and remains unilingual. So GONG

Showoff

I suppose there is a possibility that Brad Wall is just keeping his options open.  However, I have to concede that if he wanted to run for the Conservative leadership, the logical thing for him to do would be for him to step down as Saskatchewan Premier before their upcoming election.

That said, should Brian Pallister somehow lose the election in Manitoba that will be held around the same time as the Saskatchewan election, Brad Wall may not like the prospect of being the lone reliable right wing premier.  Christy Clark leans to the right, but she isn't reliable to pretty much anybody.

Pallister seems to have a comfortable lead right now and the NDP seem finished outside of their ten or so strongest ridings (mainly the 12 ridings that they managed to win back in 1988) and I don't think the provincial Liberals can win in many, if any,  rural ridings (all the ridings they won back in 1988 were in Winnipeg, but one rural Progressive Conservative crossed the floor to join them shortly after that election), but Pallister is a very strange person and if anybody can blow an election, it's him.

[DL]

My friends in Saskatchewan say that Wall will serve two years of his third terms and then quit to make millions of dollars serving on corporate boards. He will be to the Tories was Frank McKenna was to the Liberals.

[adma]

And besides, if the Cons are looking for a "fresh face", Pallister is 60 plus.  (And Clark is too historically capital-L Liberal.)

[136or142]

And besides, if the Cons are looking for a "fresh face", Pallister is 60 plus.  (And Clark is too historically capital-L Liberal.)

Please read what I wrote again.  I never suggested Pallister for Federal Conservative leader, I said that in all likelihood he will join Brad Wall as a fellow right wing premier in a few months.

If Christy Clark is capital L anything, she'a capital L Liar, but she seems to pretty much have no ideology beyond doing whatever gets her in front of a camera or a microphone as much as possible.

As horrible as it is to think and say, I suspect that when Christy Clark went up north to visit where that horrible boating accident occurred that at least some of the people in that village thought to themselves "she's only here to get media attention."  Similarly, when she condemned Donald Trump, I think a lot of British Columbia political observers weren't primarily thinking that she was trying to please the small l liberal wing of the Liberal Party base, but that she was speaking up to get on television.

[DL]

The only "ism" Christy Clark believes in is NARCISSISM!

[adma]

If Christy Clark is capital L anything, she'a capital L Liar, but she seems to pretty much have no ideology beyond doing whatever gets her in front of a camera or a microphone as much as possible.

It's not about ideology, it's about affiliation--prior to her Premiership, she was indeed more commonly identified with the federal Liberals (to the point where it was a factor in her lack of caucus support as leadership candidate), and of course her ex-husband Mark Marissen was very much part of the fed Grits' BC machine. (And if she isn't so now, I did use the "historically" qualifier.)

If she's at all Conservative leadership material, it's only from the perspective of "Liberal, Tory, same old story" jaundice (fueled by how the BC Liberals are presently a "free enterprise coalition" entity, i.e. Not. The. NDP.)

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Actually in that respect they're more like the British Tories than the federal Canadian Tories ; i.e. fundamentally they are a force in favour of Property and Order that happens to have formed itself into a political party rather than a modern corporate entity that happens to run candidates in elections. Except established only last week (so to speak) so not that alike. But you know what I mean.

[136or142]

If Christy Clark is capital L anything, she'a capital L Liar, but she seems to pretty much have no ideology beyond doing whatever gets her in front of a camera or a microphone as much as possible.

It's not about ideology, it's about affiliation--prior to her Premiership, she was indeed more commonly identified with the federal Liberals (to the point where it was a factor in her lack of caucus support as leadership candidate), and of course her ex-husband Mark Marissen was very much part of the fed Grits' BC machine. (And if she isn't so now, I did use the "historically" qualifier.)

If she's at all Conservative leadership material, it's only from the perspective of "Liberal, Tory, same old story" jaundice (fueled by how the BC Liberals are presently a "free enterprise coalition" entity, i.e. Not. The. NDP.)

That is true and I believe her ex-husband has continued to assist her campaigns even though they are not divorced.

That said though, even when she was identified with the federal Liberals, she was also regarded as a very 'blue' Liberal. 

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Considering that the Liberal Party of Canada stands for the grand total of fyck all (other than that Canada = and that the Liberal Party should be in charge of it) exactly which one of its thirty thousand tendencies she was associated with is way less relevant than that she was associated with the party.

[MaxQue]

Considering that the Liberal Party of Canada stands for the grand total of fyck all (other than that Canada = and that the Liberal Party should be in charge of it) exactly which one of its thirty thousand tendencies she was associated with is way less relevant than that she was associated with the party.

Note than she WAS associated with Liberals.

Considering she has opposed pretty much every policy of Trudeau since he won (from the right), I'm not sure they are interested in her.

[adma]

Considering she has opposed pretty much every policy of Trudeau since he won (from the right), I'm not sure they are interested in her.

But it doesn't mean the *Cons* would be interested in her, for opposite type reasons.

In the end, on "slipperiness" grounds the Libs still seem the most fitting home for Christy Clark--she's only a "Blue Liberal" insofar as far as it serves the caucus she leads.  And remember, too, that when it comes to strains of Liberalism banished by Trudeau, she isn't exactly socon a la, say, John McKay.

Maybe not as *leadership* material, but the federal Grits would gladly, even now, have a Christy Clark in their caucus--if only to show off the degree to which the Cons have terminally "lost the centre"...

[136or142]

Considering she has opposed pretty much every policy of Trudeau since he won (from the right), I'm not sure they are interested in her.

But it doesn't mean the *Cons* would be interested in her, for opposite type reasons.

In the end, on "slipperiness" grounds the Libs still seem the most fitting home for Christy Clark--she's only a "Blue Liberal" insofar as far as it serves the caucus she leads.  And remember, too, that when it comes to strains of Liberalism banished by Trudeau, she isn't exactly socon a la, say, John McKay.

Maybe not as *leadership* material, but the federal Grits would gladly, even now, have a Christy Clark in their caucus--if only to show off the degree to which the Cons have terminally "lost the centre"...

I'm not sure about that. I know at least one person who was with her at the mock Parliaments for university students (I forget what it's called) and he or they both said she was very right wing for a Liberal even back then.

I agree she seems to flip back and forth between the different branches of liberalism and all the way into conservatism on economic issues both before she became Premier and as Premier.

[adma]

I'm not sure about that. I know at least one person who was with her at the mock Parliaments for university students (I forget what it's called) and he or they both said she was very right wing for a Liberal even back then.

I agree she seems to flip back and forth between the different branches of liberalism and all the way into conservatism on economic issues both before she became Premier and as Premier.

*Economic* issues.  So?  That's how Paul Martin warded off the ReformAlliance threat.

And, "very right wing" vs *what*?  In the case of BC, that'd disproportionately be the NDP--and whether you're federally Lib or Con, it'd still be you vs the Socialist Hordes.


Look: just because Christy Clark 's been Liberal doesn't mean she'd be Dosanjih Liberal (or even Wynne Liberal).  After all, when she ran for Vancouver Mayor it was for NPA, not Vision Vancouver.  Yet at the same time, it doesn't mean that Justin's out to sideline anyone who *isn't* a Dosanjih Liberal.  Whatever her "principles" are, Clark's a "big tenter".

[136or142]

I'm not sure about that. I know at least one person who was with her at the mock Parliaments for university students (I forget what it's called) and he or they both said she was very right wing for a Liberal even back then.

I agree she seems to flip back and forth between the different branches of liberalism and all the way into conservatism on economic issues both before she became Premier and as Premier.

*Economic* issues.  So?  That's how Paul Martin warded off the ReformAlliance threat.

And, "very right wing" vs *what*?  In the case of BC, that'd disproportionately be the NDP--and whether you're federally Lib or Con, it'd still be you vs the Socialist Hordes.

I'm not sure what point your trying to make.  Christy Clark was a member of the Federal model Parliament according to my friends, and she was right wing in comparison to a lot of the Progressive Conservatives there.

[adma]

I'm not sure what point your trying to make.  Christy Clark was a member of the Federal model Parliament according to my friends, and she was right wing in comparison to a lot of the Progressive Conservatives there.

Note: *Progressive* Conservatives.  And if we consider *when* she was in said model parliament (presumably 25-30 years ago), that would've been fundamentally pre-Reform Party, right?

Red Tories still existed then--and who knows how many of them have themselves since migrated to Liberal/NDP/Green...

[136or142]

I'm not sure what point your trying to make.  Christy Clark was a member of the Federal model Parliament according to my friends, and she was right wing in comparison to a lot of the Progressive Conservatives there.

Note: *Progressive* Conservatives.  And if we consider *when* she was in said model parliament (presumably 25-30 years ago), that would've been fundamentally pre-Reform Party, right?

Red Tories still existed then--and who knows how many of them have themselves since migrated to Liberal/NDP/Green...

Sure, but in British Columbia the then young Social Credit members (a provincial party to be sure, but there was a lot of crossover between Social Credit and Progressive Conservative members) were referred to as 'the Hitler Youth.'

The young Progressive Conservatives in the early 1980s were among the leaders in trying to drive their party to the right that succeeded in toppling Joe Clark and getting Brian Mulroney elected as leader.  This would have been a few years later but I don't think things would have changed all that much in such a short period of time.

[Lotuslander]

Haha. I am reading the comments in this thread... and am beginning to wonder... folk here seem to come from kindergarten politics 101. Seriously. Never read more idiotic poli stuff in my entire life.

Christy Clark for Con leader? Bwahahaha. Yuck Yuck Comedy Club stuff. Clark was a "red" Liberal and pics on the net also confirm her among a large protest group greeting then PM Mulroney in BC back in 1988 protesting the free trade deal.

Good friggin' grief. Clark ain't even relevant in this discussion.

Next.....

[adma]

Red or blue, I agree that the tone of the Christy-bashing in this thread is beside-the-point youth-parliament juvenile ("If Christy Clark is capital L anything, she'a capital L Liar, but she seems to pretty much have no ideology beyond doing whatever gets her in front of a camera or a microphone as much as possible.", or "The only "ism" Christy Clark believes in is NARCISSISM!")--not that Lotuslander's historical pattern of Christy-basher-bashing angry-ex-husband disgruntlement's any better, of course.

Yes, it's not relevant to the discussion.  And I'm glad to rip the testicles out of *both* Adam T *and* Lotuslander in one post...

[Hash]

Yes, it's true that the recent posts in this thread seem to have been made by 13 year olds, so it'd be nice if, for once, we could get some actual discussion or analysis going on here.

[136or142]

Red or blue, I agree that the tone of the Christy-bashing in this thread is beside-the-point youth-parliament juvenile ("If Christy Clark is capital L anything, she'a capital L Liar, but she seems to pretty much have no ideology beyond doing whatever gets her in front of a camera or a microphone as much as possible.", or "The only "ism" Christy Clark believes in is NARCISSISM!")--not that Lotuslander's historical pattern of Christy-basher-bashing angry-ex-husband disgruntlement's any better, of course.

Yes, it's not relevant to the discussion.  And I'm glad to rip the testicles out of *both* Adam T *and* Lotuslander in one post...

I gather you don't live in British Columbia.  She herself makes all sorts of juvenile jokes, mostly against the NDP, but in all sorts of ways.  I personally thought her joke about holding a Yoga event someplace after people complained about her announcing that some major bridge in Vancouver would be shut down for half a day (albeit a Sunday mostly in the morning) was kind of funny, but I can understand that most people didn't find her joke funny but found it to be flip and in poor taste (as well as downright stupid, and, yes, juvenile.)

The worst thing she did in this regard was she asked a radio show host named Drex (who is now at CKNW and can be provocative sometimes and also happens to be gay which is of slight significance to this) to ask her either whether she considered herself to be a 'MILF' or simply asked him to ask her a provocative question just for fun, and then laughingly responded to the M*** question, but as soon as the question generated backlash she claimed she was 'offended' and 'shocked' that he asked her that, and the radio station he was working at at the time fired him.

In response to her being a compulsive liar, I can't think of a single time she told the truth on the campaign trail especially her claim that by the end of her first full term B.C would have five LNG plants in operation and our province would soon be 'debt free.'  And, her campaign bus was even painted with the phrase 'debt free B.C.'  Not a single plant is anywhere near close to being built and only one company is even now looking at starting up a plant.  Obviously LNG (and oil prices which can be a substitute for LNG) have declined since then, but, at the time of the election, most people in the industry doubted that more than two plants would start up  and nobody seriously thought that even all five plants would generate the income to eliminate British Columbia's full government debt (including crown corporations, which was her exact promise.)

Since, then she her most cynical lie was her response to the government deletion of emails (or simply not writing information down in the first place) in which she said that 'now that I'm aware of this, I'm going to put a stop to it' even though:
1.As premier, unless she's completely out of the loop of her own government, it's inconceivable that she wouldn't have known it was going on.
2.There had been a previous report by one of the official government watchdogs that reported on this same matter and she said at that time "now that I'm aware of this I'm going to put a stop to it.'

I don't know if she made some juvenile flip joke on the matter but it wouldn't surprise me.  

The Minister who was called out for this, Transportation Minister Todd Stone (who previously worked in the computer software industry) even said that he would continue the practice of deleting emails (known as triple deletion) and despite Christy Clark calling the practice 'unacceptable' never fired him or told him to step down.  Maybe he gave a mea culpa and said publicly he'd stop doing it and I'm simply not aware of that, but I wouldn't believe either of them without an audit to confirm that he and his staff haven't continued to triple delete emails.

In regards to her being a media hound, there are quite a number of non partisan political science professors who have said that she has shown herself to be quite capable in communications but pretty lousy at actually governing. Certainly it may be a bit more partisan to call her a narcissist or that she only wants to be premier because it places her in the spotlight and she only is interested in going to places if she knows the cameras will be there, but there are a lot of people in the province, and not just New Democrats or B.C Conservatives who agree with that assessment of her.

So, that covers her flippant juvenile humor and why I respond to her in the same way, that covers her being a near constant if not pathological liar, and that covers her media communications as governing and ideological philosophy and it's not just 13 year old British Columbians who agree with me on Christy Clark.

All that said, I understand that she can be a genuinely compassionate and warm person in private, so, she's far from all bad.

Anyway, she's not running for Conservative Party leader, so she's not really relevant to this thread and hopefully she won't be relevant to British Columbia in about 16 months.