An Effective Consensus
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OSR stands with Israel
Computer89
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« Reply #100 on: April 07, 2020, 01:09:08 PM »

Does Reagan still win the 1966 Gubernatorial Race

Yes he does, though he is increasingly on the fringe of the party.


Well at least there is some hope Economic Conservatism can be saved

What's your full analysis of the Wallace presidency?

So far he has been a total disaster, sowing division and hatred like no president ever and incoherent economic policies are disastrous too(You need a coherent economic philosophy). Vietnam its still to early

I hope he is weakened by a primary challenger and then defeated in a landslide in 1968

Do you have anyone in mind of 1968 on the Republican side?

Reagan is too inexperienced and Goldwater not supporting Nixon in 64 rules him out so probably Dirksen 1968
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KaiserDave
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« Reply #101 on: April 07, 2020, 02:42:00 PM »



Wikimedia Commons



  • December 5: NVA SAM Systems shoot down a dozen American F-4 Phantoms in one day
  • December 7: US SAM Hunter-Killer Teams Escalate Operations
  • December 8: Chinese Air Force mobilizes against US Bombing Raids, Half a Dozen Phantoms taken out by PLA Air Force




Wikimedia Commons

George




George Wallace slouched back at the resolute desk. Who woutta thought it? This Alabama boy was in the White House. All it took was one run too. Part of it was poetic. 100 years after the Civil War Dixie was played in the White House (he liked to play it as opposed to Hail to the Chief to rile up northerners of both parties). He was about to have another national security briefing? Typically these were pretty simple. Westmoreland and LeMay asked for more troops, more bombs, more planes and sh**t and Wallace gave them what they wanted. Boom bam bang, just like that. Wallace was gonna be the best first President to show the Reds the full power of America. The door opened and LeMay and Westmoreland walked in, but followed by half a dozen uniformed generals. Wallace leaned forward.

"Mr. President, the situation in Vietnam has evolved." LeMay was clearly angered. "Over the past 24 hours the Chinese Air Force has engaged with our planes bombing North Vietnam. We have lost several planes and pilots too. This is clearly an act of war-" Westmoreland shot LeMay an angry glance. "I am seeking your full permission to retaliate with all the weapons in our arsenal." LeMay emphasized all very strongly. Westmoreland spoke hurriedly.

No, no sir. We're just here to inform you, not seek any action. Our planes" he pointed to a map on a stand with a metal baton. "were flying routine air superiority missions over North Vietnam 19 hours ago when they were engaged by PLA Air Force from the North. They were caught largely by surprised and were destroyed."

"Hold up hold up hold up." Wallace leaned forward. "You mean to tell me they're shooting back." Westmoreland did not respond. "For the past two years we've bombed and bombed and bombed and they can barely do anything, and now we got missiles left and right. Explain."

LeMay spoke, "The Soviets have sold a variety of sophisticated anti air missiles and SAM systems to the Vietnamese in an effort to boost their anti air capabilities. Now they are supported by Red China, the least we can do-" Wallace interrupted,

"We're currently fighting China in the air above Vietnam, well that's a pretty big problem. I'd like to get Beijing on the phone." Westmoreland nodded.

"Yes Mr. President, right away."

....

Wallace put the phone down.

"So Zhou Enlai gives me all this crap on American imperialism and the socialist sphere and all this red talk, but he says, you know, we want to keep this local. This doesn't have to go anywhere."

The generals and now the Secretary of State as well all nodded.

"This could remain a serious impediment to our efforts in Vietnam." LeMay said. "We cannot allow China to stop our march to victory. Sir just contact me when you want to retaliate hard." Wallace looked up, nodded slowly, and dismissed the men.





  • December 12: Reports Emerge that China has involved itself in Vietnam shot down dozens of American planes in response to aggressive military bombing
  • December 13: Congress, public alarmed that Wallace has "expanded the War to China"
  • December 14: Wallace fires back, "they shot first, we defend ourselves"
  • December 15: Curtis LeMay says to the press that the President is "considering a nuclear response"
  • December 16: Unofficial envoy Henry Kissinger meets with Soviet Ambassador Anatoly Dobrynin to assure him that President Wallace has no intention of using nuclear weapons
  • December 17: Wallace clarifies that he "will not use nuclear weapons" but refuses to fire LeMay despite congressional pressure
  • December 18: Mao Tse-Tung announces that Chinese policy is to establish a "secure air zone" in North Vietnam
  • December 19-31: Air combat persists between Chinese and American Air Forces until Kissinger negotiates deal on New Year's Eve Deal that suspends US Bombing near the Chinese Border in exchange for ending air hostilities, the entire incidents damages the "unstable and erratic" (as Gerald Ford said) Wallace foreign policy in the press and internationally, and highlights the danger of Curtis LeMay in the cabinet



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« Reply #102 on: April 07, 2020, 02:53:35 PM »

So I see the Wallace Presidency is going great.
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KaiserDave
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« Reply #103 on: April 07, 2020, 02:55:05 PM »

So I see the Wallace Presidency is going great.
Do you have any 68 favorites yet?
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« Reply #104 on: April 07, 2020, 04:05:43 PM »


Hoping for a McCarthy primary. Barring that, I'd take a challenge from the Republican liberal wing from someone like Javits or Romney.
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« Reply #105 on: April 07, 2020, 04:42:01 PM »

I'm also in the McCarthy/Javitz camp.
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« Reply #106 on: April 07, 2020, 05:01:24 PM »

My preference is Rockefeller or Javits, but a primary from McCarthy would also be fine. Great work on the timeline!
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KaiserDave
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« Reply #107 on: April 07, 2020, 05:18:25 PM »

Thanks for all the support!

I’ll be doing a unique interactive post soon

President Wallace will go on face the nation on CBS. If you guys wanna submit some questions I’m open to including them, just message me them or post them here. Whatever you prefer!
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KaiserDave
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« Reply #108 on: April 07, 2020, 07:39:52 PM »
« Edited: April 08, 2020, 12:42:33 PM by KaiserDave »

Wikimedia Commons and Alabama Gov Archives

The Wallace Administration



1967 like all years so far in the Wallace administration did not begin easy. The Anti-War movement was riled up as Red China almost entered a full stage air shooting war with US forces, and when CBS anchor Walter Cronkite asked viewers, "is it still worth it to have our boys die in Vietnam?" many average Americans started asking the same question. Meanwhile, the counter culture movement and black power movements grew as well. All this triggered more hostility and aggressiveness from the White House. They refused to back down in the war, in fact they escalated it. Another 4,000 soldiers, and while much of northern North Vietnam such as Hanoi faster lighter bombing (if at all) due to Chinese interference, the rest of the country was fair game for incendiary bombs, Agent Orange, napalm, and explosive power not seen since World War II. The civilian casualties piled up (literally), but that was not a Wallace priority.

Seeing falling approval ratings and an economy with perpetually mediocre growth, the Wallace Administration looked to open a new front to get the attention and also admittedly to scare Americans. With the rising counterculture movement, there was a conservative backlash as well as much of that backlash was on drug use like LSD and cocaine (with undertones of racism). Wallace, looking to turn out his base in '68, declared a War on Drugs. In a his '67 State of the Union, he called for Congress to pass further reductions in the size and scope of the federal government, especially in regards to education and housing and repeal many New Deal era programs regarding those provisions. He also called on an increasingly skeptical Congress to back "our boys in Vietnam." His speech praised the virtues of state's rights in the constitution, and called for "a kind, understanding, and fair separation of races where necessary." But his speech was dominated by calling for a "relentless war on drugs." He called for strong sentences for crack cocaine use, more enforcement of existing laws on marijuana, LSD, heroin, cocaine and other narcotics. He again called for more equipment and funding for police, and a mass crackdown on the "organized cartels that are terrorizing our streets and turning small young boys into pistol wielding coked-up drones." Congress was divided on the speech, many furious at his calls for segregation, but others supporting his calls for a drug crackdown.

The nation continued to be divided as more police and more military equipment entered the streets and protests grew bigger and louder.  Reverend King sermons said that the "greatest purveyor of violence in the world today is the Wallace White House." He denounced the war and the administration as the President's approval continued to fall. Conservatives approved of him more and more, with some Goldwater Republicans from '64 switching parties (many were willing to ignore the social security expansion). Many were slotted in Wallace's '68 campaign team. On the other hand, liberals in both parties disliked Wallace more and more. The April 15th Demonstrations brought hundreds of thousands out across the nation to attend the war, which led to more counter protests and more division. Another issue was the Six Day War in June. Many in Congress wanted Wallace to intercede on behalf of Israel. But he wasn't interested, he told the press that, "we have no business putting American boys in the firing line of some war in the Middle East that the Israelis have with their neighbors. They oughta sorta that out themselves, not our business." American Jews were not pleased, although they were not a Wallace constituency. Israel won the war, but without American help. More race riots in Tampa brought more chaos and division to the nation.

But the chaos came to a head in the summer of '67. While in California the summer of love was on, in Atlanta things were more grim. Not only were there race riots in Detroit but the south was flaming up to. Segregationist Lester Maddox was aggressively violating federal civil rights law and using aggressive tactics to flaunt this. Maddox, evidently with a blank cheque from President Wallace, treated civil disobedience as a violent crime. Things got to a height when a dozen sit in participants in an Atlanta diner were dragged into the streets by State Police and beaten harshly, and then necklaced in the streets. A white hot angry black mob arrived, and more police arrived with rifles. Governor Maddow ordered that order be restored and the mob be cleared. After a miscommunication, or a misunderstanding of sorts, or some kind of noise shots were fired in the streets of Atlanta. The mob began to charge, and then dispersed. A race riot continued over the week, and by the end 62 black people had died, 23 from the initial shooting. All of this not included the initial 12 men killed by the police. The bloody incident was blamed on the mob by Governor Maddox, while President Wallace refused to allocate blame. Public opinion however, turned against Wallace.

The Warren Court ruled in Loving vs Virginia that "miscegenation" laws were unconstitutional. President Wallace said he did "not agree with the constitutionality of the decision." Again causing more division and more chaos. In Vietnam Wallace rejected those in his cabinet who advocate for opening negotiations, and continuing to entertain a nuclear strike against Hanoi. He escalated search and destroy missions in Vietnam, and continuing to press on with more bombing and another 2,000 soldiers. America reached 200 million people in November, and hundreds of thousands more hit the street to protest the war. The New Left and Antiwar movement was growing, and public opinion was turning against Wallace. Wallace refused to bow to public pressure, he continued the crackdown on drugs, and pushed for more police control of protests. He spoke in disgust about hippies and black power activists, calling them "degenerates" and "terrorists" respectively. Going into 68 Wallace's election prospects out the south (where he had fanatical support, and voting for blacks was extremely hard, again the Voting Rights Act was going nowhere), looked difficult. But Wallace was looking into radical new ways to win the war in Vietnam and restore order in the streets.....


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KaiserDave
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« Reply #109 on: April 07, 2020, 07:41:07 PM »




Gallup Poll: President Wallace Job Approval December 1967



Wikimedia Commons

Approve: 42%
Disapprove: 54%


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« Reply #110 on: April 07, 2020, 08:04:57 PM »

Good TL so far. Wonder how Nixon will go in his 2nd
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America Needs R'hllor
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« Reply #111 on: April 08, 2020, 04:37:32 AM »

Christ, Wallace...
RFK or Humphrey '68- if not, one of the liberal Republicans.
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Continential
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« Reply #112 on: April 08, 2020, 07:23:47 AM »

Wallace was a populist and supported a New Deal, and was Right to Labor. However this TL is good!
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KaiserDave
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« Reply #113 on: April 08, 2020, 07:55:07 AM »
« Edited: April 08, 2020, 09:09:11 AM by KaiserDave »

Wallace was a populist and supported a New Deal, and was Right to Labor. However this TL is good!

Yep. Although his labour credentials are dubious (although if you mean Right to Work, Alabama did have RTW and that's not pro union). I don’t think he’s dine anything in this TL that out of character.

He also created Medicare, so he hasn't abandoned populism.
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KaiserDave
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« Reply #114 on: April 08, 2020, 01:24:13 PM »
« Edited: April 08, 2020, 02:40:36 PM by KaiserDave »

President Wallace on Face the Nation


Youtube Still/C-SPAN




Bill Shadel: Mr. President you've become notorious for your defense of legal segregation-

George Wallace: No no Bill. I-

Bill Shadel: Mr. President you declared segregation forever on the steps of the Alabama capitol?

George Wallace: That was in the context of the Alabama school system. In Alabama we had a peaceful understand of two separate school systems. I was furious because of federal authorities telling Alabamians what they were to or not to do. That is not constitutional, that is not right.

Bill Shadel: What is your view on segregation?

George Wallace: I am the President for every single American. Negro and White. They are Americans and I hope to lead all of them. I do not believe that Negro Americans are inferior. Those who call me a racist either are trying to slander me or do not understand my position. What I do support is in places like Alabama where peaceful citizens Negro and White have agreed to separate housing developments, separate school systems, the federal government should not pass invasive civil rights legislation to tell them what or what not to do. As President I have not tried to hurt Negro Americans, in fact I did the very opposite, I passed a healthcare system so poor Negroes, who's parents and grandparents have lived in such poverty for so long can have the care they need.

Bill Shadel: But how can you say that you've lead for Negro Americans when in Atlanta we still have such violence against Black folks, we have murder by the police?

George Wallace: Atlanta was a terrible tragedy. Unacceptable. What I told Governor Maddox is that he would have to do better. But I will not blame the Georgia State Police for something that a few officers did. They should be charged with a  crime, but to blame the Police department when you had an angry mob in the streets, to blame all these hard working officers would be foolish.

Bill Shadel: But Mr. President they fired into the crowd?

George Wallace: Governor Maddox will find those responsible for shooting and charge them, but I will not have police attacked for doing their job.

Bill Shadel: Mr. President the violence in the streets has gone up across this country, what are you doing to stop it?

George Wallace: It's very unfortunate what's happened. The subversives, the communists, the elites and the pseudo intellectuals are doing everything to take me down. So yes they incite violence through the media-

Bill Shadel: The media?

George Wallace: Yes the media, they've normalized so much. The hippies and their nonsense, these racists calling for the death of all white folks, the liberal elites calling for the enemy to win in Vietnam, and they've called for more people to take to the streets. But that's not all, they've normalized the criminality of Wall Street and the banking class. Who make millions simply from the manipulation of money and criminal usurious activities, yes they bankroll much of the news media. The banking class wants to take me down because I don't dance to their tune, they opposed Medicare and they opposed Franklin Roosevelt and Andrew Jackson before me. So they get the media to incite violence against me.

Bill Shadel: You speak of President Roosevelt, but you've tried to eliminate some New Deal programs?

George Wallace: No, no. I have not. President Roosevelt was a great man. I think the New Deal is a great great achievement, but I want to tweak and improve it. What I have done is turn over powers to the states, and made sure to adjust these programs to suit the needs of the modern day. I have made sure that the states have more control over these programs, and can manage them more effectively than federal bureaucrats. And yes, I think some of the housing measures for instance go too far yes. I have great respect for private property and I will do anything to protect it, and that takes some unpopular choices. I believe as well that the federal government should generally be smaller, than states and communities know better.

Bill Shadel: Mr. President the economy has sagged as of late, is it time to reduce interest rates?

George Wallace: I am opposed to both excessively high interest rates and government backed inflation. Both of which are detrimental to liberty. I am for respecting natural rates of interest. The Federal Reserve, which I have many grave concerns about should not artificially manipulate money.

Bill Shadel: How can you justify staying in Vietnam with so many casualties and so far from victory?

George Wallace: I do not believe that we are far from victory, our air campaign has decimated the North Vietnamese Army, and I belief in time we will have routed them from South Vietnam. It is impossible for them to wage war under these conditions.

Bill Shadel: Finally, Senator Eugene McCarthy indicated today that he intends to run for the Democratic nomination against you and believes because of your low approval ratings he can win, what is your response?

George Wallace: It is that I will kick him in the behind. He will lose.
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KaiserDave
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« Reply #115 on: April 08, 2020, 01:26:34 PM »

Note: I wanted to make Wallace's ideology here more coherent. Therefore, interview.
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« Reply #116 on: April 08, 2020, 01:41:13 PM »

Get Clean with Gene!
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OSR stands with Israel
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« Reply #117 on: April 08, 2020, 01:45:40 PM »

A better candidate would be a Scoop Jackson primary challenger .



Anyway go Dirksen in 68
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« Reply #118 on: April 08, 2020, 02:35:52 PM »

A better candidate would be a Scoop Jackson primary challenger .



Anyway go Dirksen in 68
I'd vote for anyone but Scoop Jackson, Scoop Jackson's base is part of Wallace's base.
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« Reply #119 on: April 08, 2020, 02:58:02 PM »


Would be interesting, but Dirksen irl was stricken mortally ill with cancer only seven months into what would be his hypothetical first term.
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KaiserDave
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« Reply #120 on: April 08, 2020, 03:18:52 PM »

Campaign 1968


Wikimedia Commons




January 4th: Former President Richard Nixon tells press, "What? No. Leave me out of this, I'm not running for office"

January 6th: Senators Humphrey, Javits, and McCarthy try to revive Voting Right's Act, but it fails in committee

January 8th: President Wallace officially launches his campaign in Nashville Rally, crowd size same as in '64

January 10th: Senator Eugene McCarthy meets with organizers and liberal Democrats in Minneapolis, says "we have one lost chance to save this party from George Wallace."

January 12th: Margaret Chase Smith, Senator from Maine launches presidential campaign, "it's time for a change."

January 15th: Hubert Humphrey endorses fellow Minnesotan McCarthy for Democratic nomination, "he understands the struggle of the working man"

January 16th: President Wallace with "unanimous" support from white southern delegations

January 20th: Barry Goldwater rules out campaign, "my time running for the white house is over." Harold Stassen, former Minnesota governor launches campaign for the White House.

January 21st: Former Vice President Henry Cabot Lodge Jr. registers for New Hampshire primary, pledges to hold torch for "sensibility and respect"

January 22nd: Michigan Governor George Romney launches campaign, speech in Detroit filled with progressive Republican themes of equality, justice, and aggressive federal enforcement of civil rights and economic justice

January 29th: New York Governor Nelson Rockefeller launches campaign, "we can do better than George Wallace, and we will." Robert Taft Jr. launches campaign, promising a return to "conservative principles."

January 30th: Communist Vietnamese forces launch Tet Offensive in a surprise attack across all fronts. This causes immense damage to the popularity of the war, and causes many to lose faith in the war effort. President Wallace reportedly reconsidering strategy.

February 2nd: Senator McCarthy gathering big crowds across the midwest, gaining momentum with undecided delegates

February 3rd: Hawaii Senator Hiram Fong launches campaign, promises a return to peace and calm.

February 8th: 3 Black protestors killed at segregated bowling alley protest

February 10th: Robert F. Kennedy rules out campaign, implies that Democrats should vote for McCarthy. John Kennedy also rules out campaign, says that Democrats "can do better than the President."

February 11th: George Wallace gives televised address, announcing that the "wartime strategy has been reevaluated" and orders the withdrawal of 3,000 American ground troops. Reports say he was as shocked by Tet Offensive as anybody else.

February 12th: McCarthy continues to gather momentum as Wallace's war announcement only feeds his campaign.

February 18th: George Romney receives Javits endorsement, in blow to Rockefeller. Romney emerging as GOP frontrunner

February 19th: Senator Dirksen announces he won't seek GOP nomination, looks remarkably frail in statement.

Febriary 20th: George Wallace requests legislation to increase social security benefits

March 4th: New Hampshire primary critical again, Wallace looks very weak in New Hampshire Democratic Primary, while Lodge Jr is the GOP favorite

March 12th: Day of New Hampshire primary, results are subject of immense questioning and excitement

Democratic Candidates
George Wallace: Stand up for America
Eugene McCarthy: Peace Again

Republican Candidates
Henry Cabot Lodge Jr.: We can do Better
George Romney: For a Better America
Nelson Rockefeller: Win with Rocky!
Robert Taft Jr.: Make America One Again
Harold Stassen: Fighting for the Country
Margaret Chase Smith: Only the Truth
Hiram Fong: Just the Red, White, and Blue


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« Reply #121 on: April 08, 2020, 03:27:48 PM »

I prefer Taft but Romney is probably the best candidate to take on the odious President Wallace, so I guess I’d support him.

Great TL, btw!
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KaiserDave
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« Reply #122 on: April 08, 2020, 03:35:29 PM »

I prefer Taft but Romney is probably the best candidate to take on the odious President Wallace, so I guess I’d support him.

Great TL, btw!

Thanks!
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« Reply #123 on: April 08, 2020, 03:47:48 PM »

Gene or go. Hoping MCS wins the nomination.
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« Reply #124 on: April 08, 2020, 04:05:39 PM »

Obviously gonna get clean with Gene, but if he falls short - and I can't believe I'm saying this - I'm all in for Romney.
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