SCOTUS overturns Roe megathread (pg 53 - confirmed)

[T'Chenka]

I don't care if I'm mocked for this.

Ana Kasparian's rant about Republicans (abortion amd childcare) and Democrats (fundraising but not fighting) was 100% on point.

[Mr. Reactionary]

I don't care if I'm mocked for this.

Ana Kasparian's rant about Republicans (abortion amd childcare) and Democrats (fundraising but not fighting) was 100% on point.

I wont mock you. I laughed hysterically at poor poor Ana's meltdown though.

[The Dowager Mod]

It's just a matter of time.

[T'Chenka]

I don't care if I'm mocked for this.

Ana Kasparian's rant about Republicans (abortion amd childcare) and Democrats (fundraising but not fighting) was 100% on point.

I wont mock you. I laughed hysterically at poor poor Ana's meltdown though.

It sounded kind of cringey yeah, BUT she was spitting facts.

[100% pro-life no matter what]

Everyone does realize that abortion bans typically are supply-side bans by shutting down clinics and punishing providers, not demand-side bans to punish mothers, who were mostly lied to and deceived by the abortion industry, right?

[brucejoel99]

Third, the Fourteenth Amendment explicitly States, and I quote, all persons born or naturalized in the United States are citizens. Implying citizenship to a newly fertilized egg or even a three months old fetus is at best and extremely novel argument, and more accurately completely antithetical to the 14th amendments explicit language.

So if somehow the right manages to twist around the literal word "born" in the Amendment to imply citizenship to the unborn, here are a couple of interesting questions:

1. Would a child born in the U.S. but conceived outside of it be a citizen of the U.S.?

2. The reverse: would a child conceived in the U.S. but born outside of it be a citizen?

And if that's not enough cans of worms yet, how about the census?  It calls for enumerating the number of "persons" in the U.S.  If personhood begins at conception...

Yeah, the 14th Amendment's setting of birth, as opposed to conception, as when natural-born American citizenship begins would seemingly either preclude the possibility of fetal personhood or require that fetuses - although people - are stateless persons. It's utter legal insanity; granted, mayyybe a state can try to get away with arguing that the 14th qualified rather than wholly replaced the original understanding of citizenship under the Constitution, thereby meaning that states are free to do fetal personhood if they so choose, but yeah, the fetal personhood argument's 14A implications are just laughable, & it can't be understated how much of an extreme minority position the pro-life fetal personhood position is even in the conservative legal movement. With the exception of the idiosyncratic Thomas, I don't see anybody currently on the Court - even somebody of ACB's pro-life disposition - willingly invoking it in an abortion case that manages to come before them.

[Born to Slay. Forced to Work.]

Everyone does realize that abortion bans typically are supply-side bans by shutting down clinics and punishing providers, not demand-side bans to punish mothers, who were mostly lied to and deceived by the abortion industry, right?

This is literally contrary to every country with strict abortion laws.

[GP270watch]

Everyone does realize that abortion bans typically are supply-side bans by shutting down clinics and punishing providers, not demand-side bans to punish mothers, who were mostly lied to and deceived by the abortion industry, right?

 What is this nonsense?

 This is why nobody takes the right-wing seriously. You guys are the liars with the promotion of "crisis pregnancy centers" that lie to women about Abortion being unsafe and causing cancer. Everything with the right is projection and your comment was one of the stupidest I've read on this forum.

 Also increasingly the right is punishing women directly with not only rhetoric but burdensome legislation. There is also the prosecution of women who are mostly addicts with manslaughter charges for miscarriages(even when they can not directly prove miscarriage was due to drug or alcohol abuse) which is becoming increasingly frequent by right-wing prosecutors.

Miscarriage of Justice: The Danger of Laws Criminalizing Pregnancy Outcomes

[Dr. Arch]

Everyone does realize that abortion bans typically are supply-side bans by shutting down clinics and punishing providers, not demand-side bans to punish mothers, who were mostly lied to and deceived by the abortion industry, right?

Yes, Ignorant Statements for 500.

[Horus]

Everyone does realize that abortion bans typically are supply-side bans by shutting down clinics and punishing providers, not demand-side bans to punish mothers, who were mostly lied to and deceived by the abortion industry, right?

Absolutely, because government and law enforcement always go after the powerful institutions and not the easy targets. Of course. Why on Earth didn't I think of that?

[Boobs]

Who truly can resist the glamorousness of an abortion?

[Born to Slay. Forced to Work.]

Who truly can resist the glamorousness of an abortion?

Stupid sexy abortions

[jojoju1998]

Everyone does realize that abortion bans typically are supply-side bans by shutting down clinics and punishing providers, not demand-side bans to punish mothers, who were mostly lied to and deceived by the abortion industry, right?

Your party says that rape is a opportunity.

And says to girls that they should enjoy rape.

And so called evangelical christians... yeah right, just ask Josh Freaking Duggar.

[7,052,770]

Everyone does realize that abortion bans typically are supply-side bans by shutting down clinics and punishing providers, not demand-side bans to punish mothers, who were mostly lied to and deceived by the abortion industry, right?

How do you define what's "typical" ? What country, other than Communist Romania, has ever gone from broadly legal abortion to illegalizing it in whole or in some areas?

[100% pro-life no matter what]

Everyone does realize that abortion bans typically are supply-side bans by shutting down clinics and punishing providers, not demand-side bans to punish mothers, who were mostly lied to and deceived by the abortion industry, right?

How do you define what's "typical" ? What country, other than Communist Romania, has ever gone from broadly legal abortion to illegalizing it in whole or in some areas?

I was referring to proposed and enacted abortion bans in thr US, including Texas's law.

[jojoju1998]

Everyone does realize that abortion bans typically are supply-side bans by shutting down clinics and punishing providers, not demand-side bans to punish mothers, who were mostly lied to and deceived by the abortion industry, right?

How do you define what's "typical" ? What country, other than Communist Romania, has ever gone from broadly legal abortion to illegalizing it in whole or in some areas?

Poland. They banned abortion after the fall of the communist goverment there.

[Person Man]

Everyone does realize that abortion bans typically are supply-side bans by shutting down clinics and punishing providers, not demand-side bans to punish mothers, who were mostly lied to and deceived by the abortion industry, right?

How do you define what's "typical" ? What country, other than Communist Romania, has ever gone from broadly legal abortion to illegalizing it in whole or in some areas?

Poland. They banned abortion after the fall of the communist goverment there.

Their Supreme Court banned. It’s basically the only country on Earth like this right now….and uh..,Texas I guess.

[7,052,770]

Everyone does realize that abortion bans typically are supply-side bans by shutting down clinics and punishing providers, not demand-side bans to punish mothers, who were mostly lied to and deceived by the abortion industry, right?

How do you define what's "typical" ? What country, other than Communist Romania, has ever gone from broadly legal abortion to illegalizing it in whole or in some areas?

I was referring to proposed and enacted abortion bans in thr US, including Texas's law.

Oh, well I don't think you're correct if you're saying proposed abortion bans in America don't often include punishment on women. Some, but not all, have.

I also think you're being a little demeaning when you imply that women who choose to abort have been tricked by "the abortion industry," as if they don't have agency and can't possibly understand what they're doing.

[GeorgiaModerate]

Everyone does realize that abortion bans typically are supply-side bans by shutting down clinics and punishing providers, not demand-side bans to punish mothers, who were mostly lied to and deceived by the abortion industry, right?

I'm going to tell you a story that happened to someone I know when she was a teenager, about 15 or 16 I think.  This is one of the personal connections that I mentioned in my long post on my abortion views earlier in the thread.

She was on a family vacation to Florida.  While she was in the hotel room alone, a stranger broke in and forcibly raped her.  It was reported to the police but the rapist was never caught.  She missed her next period a couple weeks later, and her mother got her a pregnancy test.  It was positive.  The girl was not sexually active and there is no question that the rapist was the father.

Her mother took her for an abortion as soon as possible, and it's something she's been thankful for ever since.  She grew up to be happily married with several children.  She and her family have had a good life.  Had she been forced to carry the rapist's baby to term, it would have had a devastating effect on her life.   Her family at the time was just scraping by, so if she had kept the baby (which I think is very unlikely) it would have grown up in poverty, along with pushing the rest of her family into it.  Even if she didn't keep it, she would have been forced to carry a baby to term as the result of a horrible, violent act.  I have no doubt that this would have emotionally scarred her for life. 

Now tell me again that abortion in the case of rape is wrong.

[7,052,770]

Everyone does realize that abortion bans typically are supply-side bans by shutting down clinics and punishing providers, not demand-side bans to punish mothers, who were mostly lied to and deceived by the abortion industry, right?

I'm going to tell you a story that happened to someone I know when she was a teenager, about 15 or 16 I think.  This is one of the personal connections that I mentioned in my long post on my abortion views earlier in the thread.

She was on a family vacation to Florida.  While she was in the hotel room alone, a stranger broke in and forcibly raped her.  It was reported to the police but the rapist was never caught.  She missed her next period a couple weeks later, and her mother got her a pregnancy test.  It was positive.  The girl was not sexually active and there is no question that the rapist was the father.

Her mother took her for an abortion as soon as possible, and it's something she's been thankful for ever since.  She grew up to be happily married with several children.  She and her family have had a good life.  Had she been forced to carry the rapist's baby to term, it would have had a devastating effect on her life.   Her family at the time was just scraping by, so if she had kept the baby (which I think is very unlikely) it would have grown up in poverty, along with pushing the rest of her family into it.  Even if she didn't keep it, she would have been forced to carry a baby to term as the result of a horrible, violent act.  I have no doubt that this would have emotionally scarred her for life. 

Now tell me again that abortion in the case of rape is wrong.

I agree with your point, but there's no way a person who sincerely believes that even an unattached single-cell zygote is equivalent to a person and entitled to all of the same rights is going to be moved by it.

[Kahane's Grave Is A Gender-Neutral Bathroom]

While this is obviously GREAT news, pray that the 5 Supreme Court justices in the pro-life majority remain strong until the verdict is official. Pray for the state governments around the country that will determine abortion laws in every state.

Pray for the hearts and minds of every person in this nation. Pray that the Church will be able to continue to stand for both unborn babies and mothers with love, Truth, and compassion!

But, most of all, I'm so happy that I literally just cried. I've been waiting for this day since January 2008 (when I first heard of abortion) and sometimes wondered if it would ever come!!

YAY! WE CAN FINALLY CONTROL WOMEN'S BODIES AND MAKE THEM SECOND CLASS CITIZENS JUST LIKE THE BIBLE INTENDED! OF COURSE WE ALSO IGNORE THE WHOLE JESUS WAS A SOCIALIST PART, BUT ANYWAY GILEAD HERE WE COME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[Person Man]

While this is obviously GREAT news, pray that the 5 Supreme Court justices in the pro-life majority remain strong until the verdict is official. Pray for the state governments around the country that will determine abortion laws in every state.

Pray for the hearts and minds of every person in this nation. Pray that the Church will be able to continue to stand for both unborn babies and mothers with love, Truth, and compassion!

But, most of all, I'm so happy that I literally just cried. I've been waiting for this day since January 2008 (when I first heard of abortion) and sometimes wondered if it would ever come!!

YAY! WE CAN FINALLY CONTROL WOMEN'S BODIES AND MAKE THEM SECOND CLASS CITIZENS JUST LIKE THE BIBLE INTENDED! OF COURSE WE ALSO IGNORE THE WHOLE JESUS WAS A SOCIALIST PART, BUT ANYWAY GILEAD HERE WE COME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Anyone else feeling like growing a beard and wearing robes in public? Maybe playing Arabic music from your car.

[Badger]

Third, the Fourteenth Amendment explicitly States, and I quote, all persons born or naturalized in the United States are citizens. Implying citizenship to a newly fertilized egg or even a three months old fetus is at best and extremely novel argument, and more accurately completely antithetical to the 14th amendments explicit language.

So if somehow the right manages to twist around the literal word "born" in the Amendment to imply citizenship to the unborn, here are a couple of interesting questions:

1. Would a child born in the U.S. but conceived outside of it be a citizen of the U.S.?

2. The reverse: would a child conceived in the U.S. but born outside of it be a citizen?

And if that's not enough cans of worms yet, how about the census?  It calls for enumerating the number of "persons" in the U.S.  If personhood begins at conception...

I suspect the Republican answer will be to count them for three-fifths of a person

[Badger]

I deleted the post quoted above as I could not find a second source to verify it.

Sen. Kevin Cramer, R-N.D., said he expects a push for federal abortion restrictions.

“Just take my state of North Dakota. Having a North Dakota child killed in the womb in Fargo versus Moorhead, Minnesota, you know, on the other side of the Red River — I don’t find a lot of solace in that just because it didn’t happen in my state,” Cramer said. “I think you could expect that pro-life activists would push for federal protections. I mean, I wouldn’t take that off the table.”

He's a crazy.

Not at all. He's an absolute run-of-the-mill anti-choice politician. A typical Republican in 2022.

[Person Man]

Third, the Fourteenth Amendment explicitly States, and I quote, all persons born or naturalized in the United States are citizens. Implying citizenship to a newly fertilized egg or even a three months old fetus is at best and extremely novel argument, and more accurately completely antithetical to the 14th amendments explicit language.

So if somehow the right manages to twist around the literal word "born" in the Amendment to imply citizenship to the unborn, here are a couple of interesting questions:

1. Would a child born in the U.S. but conceived outside of it be a citizen of the U.S.?

2. The reverse: would a child conceived in the U.S. but born outside of it be a citizen?

And if that's not enough cans of worms yet, how about the census?  It calls for enumerating the number of "persons" in the U.S.  If personhood begins at conception...

I suspect the Republican answer will be to count them for three-fifths of a person

How many camels are they worth?