$1.5 Trillion GOP Tax Cut Thread

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Once these Republicans realize that Medicare, Medicaid, Welfare will be cut big, some of them will die or be bankrupt due to not having an affordable insurance, this 70% approval will come crushing down.

The Republican electorate is the most low information & dumb voter-base that there is. They will only come around when their wallets are badly hit.

No.  They will blame the democrats for "cutting THEIR ENTITLEMENTS" and double down.  They're a gangrenous, festering wound that needs to be excised from the body politic of this nation.

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This bill is so f**king toxic and it is very clear the GOP is cynically going after the groups that didn't vote for them.  Lots of people will see a tax hike while corpoations and the super rich make out like bandits. 

This pile of bullsh**t needs to be killed with fire.

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This bill is so f**king toxic and it is very clear the GOP is cynically going after the groups that didn't vote for them.  Lots of people will see a tax hike while corpoations and the super rich make out like bandits.  

This pile of bullsh**t needs to be killed with fire.

This is actually wrong, and maybe you should read the bill yourself and calculate how you come out before getting your piss so hot.

Even the NYT admitted in their winners and losers article that this bill will lower the tax bill of the vast majority of middle class families, while actually raising the tax bill of wealthier married couples with kids and who have large mortgages

Most Americans will be seeing their tax bill go down

It's a deficit ballooning giveaway to corporations and the tiny minority that owns them.  They are satisfying reconciliation by going after the petty rich that actually work for a living, graduate students, an increase in taxes for families with children after 5 years, a sizable tax increase for people that live in high tax states.  This just scratches the surface.  The tiny tax cut you might get is pathetic...yet somehow still enough to get your support...which was what they hoped for so they can lavish the super wealthy with gobs of money that they will probably send overseas.

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This bill is so f**king toxic and it is very clear the GOP is cynically going after the groups that didn't vote for them.  Lots of people will see a tax hike while corpoations and the super rich make out like bandits. 

This pile of bullsh**t needs to be killed with fire.

This is actually wrong, and maybe you should read the bill yourself and calculate how you come out before getting your piss so hot.

Even the NYT admitted in their winners and losers article that this bill will lower the tax bill of the vast majority of middle class families, while actually raising the tax bill of wealthier married couples with kids and who have large mortgages

Most Americans will be seeing their tax bill go down

He is somewhat right in the sense that this is, what I have characterized since the Spring, an anti-intelligentsia tax plan.  The high income population in metropole areas that are getting hit by this are knowledge intensive workers which mostly did not vote for Trump.  I am one of them was one of very few from that crowd that publicly voiced support for Trump in my social circles.  The high income population in non-metropole areas tends to be small business owners which as far as I can tell did mostly go Trump. 

Most of my friends and neighbors are getting killed under this plan but most of them voted Clinton anyway.  I actually come out barely ahead only due to some special circumstances but once you factor in the chain-CPI I am a small net loser over the next few years.  Still this plan makes sense as I think the federal government should not subsidize the high tax policies of Blue state governments.  If they want to raise taxes to fund single payer healthcare, go ahead, but not on the dine of Red State taxpayers.  I think what would make it better is if the mortgage and real estate tax deductions also were gone as well as the federal government should not show bias on how a state or local government choose to tax and fund itself. 

I shouldn't have to remind you that those blue states are the ones that pay in more to the federal government.  The red states are actually subsidizing their low tax rates with our money.

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The mental magic that you call 'logic' is toxic, jaichind.  The GOP should hike taxes for people in Democratic stayes so they will vote GOP... right.  I guess I should start shoveling in the carbs to lose weight by that logic.

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If a tax cut plan does pass, I'd rather it be this one:

Middle class biggest winners in Senate tax plan, study says

You must be logged in to read this quote.

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/11/12/tax-middle-class-republicans-244815

Does this tax plan still tax graduate students for their tuition remission?

It's a mixed bag. 

Yeah, there's no way I can support this travesty of a bill. Getting taxed for nearly $50k on the $16k you're actually earning is just simply not feasible.

And jaichind i'm sure is happy about it.  But he also thinks $750,000/year is middle class.

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They don't care Arch.  They already made up their minds, and they don't care.  I know it is incredibly frustrating because of the scary implications this tax bill will have for you... but they don't care.

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If a tax cut plan does pass, I'd rather it be this one:

Middle class biggest winners in Senate tax plan, study says

You must be logged in to read this quote.

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/11/12/tax-middle-class-republicans-244815

Does this tax plan still tax graduate students for their tuition remission?

It's a mixed bag. 

Yeah, there's no way I can support this travesty of a bill. Getting taxed for nearly $50k on the $16k you're actually earning is just simply not feasible.

So what you're saying is that a year of grad school isn't actually worth the $30+ sticker price? Regardless of whether it's feasible, there's no denying that it is income. Income is not the same as cash flow. This is far from the most painful example of that. If you get a debt cancelled because the lender figures you'll never pay them back, the debt cancellation is treated as taxable income and Uncle Sam has ways of making you pay that aren't available to private lenders.

Well:

1) No, it's not worth it, but that's not the issue at hand.
2) It is not income. I am not seeing that money, and I don't have the ability to invest it or use it as I wish as if it were actual income.
3) This is not a debt cancellation; this is a waving of charging you something (100% discount). By your logic, states should start taxing coupon sales and the like (Buy 1, Get 1 Free [+taxes on what you didn't pay]). Got a discount? Pay taxes on the full price even though the price you're paying is lower. It's ridiculous.

Properly, this is how taxes should work: discounts, sales and rebates (whether a holiday sale at a retailer or a discount you receive as part of your compensation for employment) should be taxed. Otherwise, you incentivize compensating people with discounts, sales and rebates over income. The problem is that it is sometimes very difficult to figure out exactly how much a discount, sale or rebated item should be taxed or to assign it a value, especially when a large portion of such products are offered at a discount price. But the theory of the bill is absolutely 100% correct.

The bill is purposefully targeting one population. If they're going to start doing this, they have to do it across the board if they're being honest about it. As it is, it's about punishing a group of people they don't like, who are already incredibly disadvantaged fiscally because of how out of control tuition is.

You were making a philosophical tax argument: that it would be absurd to charge tax on discounts and sales. But, of course, it's not only not absurd, it's actually quite sensible. Agree that this bill picks and chooses (and shouldn't do so), but that doesn't change the philosophical argument.

Do you have to insist on making arguments like you're living in a vacuum?  Logic dictates that these policies have negative impacts on struggling populations... yet you're worried about the philosophical argument.  Get out of your head.

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You're right.  What we argue here will not affect the outcome of the bill.  But it is a good idea to recognize when someone is distressed about something and acknowledge that even if you disagree and make an argument to the contrary.

That is just basic human decency, which does, in fact, matter here.

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Double taxation. Pretty simple & basic, which is why SALT was there since the tax code was there.

If you pay local taxes, you don't have to pay taxes on that local tax again at the federal level. Why should you pay tax twice? Most of the so-called High tax states are subsidizing most red states & get a fraction of the taxes they send anyways. It is totally crazy that Trump wants to apply a tax on local taxes now (which is what taking away the deduction is). And it is not some person paying 10K, there are many people earning less than 100-150K who will be effected by this bigtime.

And these voters didn't vote for the GOP to raise taxes on them. The GOP basically has the Congress due to these 3 dozen representatives from CA, NY, NJ, Illinois, etc. They would be toast without them in the house.

Why would not the reverse logic be true?  Namely is it not double taxation when state and local income taxes are being levied on income without removing what is being paid by federal taxes? By this logic should not all state and local income taxes first allow as deduction the amount paid in federal taxes?  I would also think by the same logic property taxes should also be deductible at the state and local income tax level as well.  And of course FICA and Obamacare taxes should also be deductible at the state and local level.  In theory the same should be true for FICA and Obamacare for federal taxes but I will grant that all of them are federal taxes so they can be additive and not seperate taxes that could lead to an argument of double taxation.  

Of course once property taxes are in the mix, then should not sales tax also be in the mix as well since just like property taxes, sales tax are not related to income.  I get the federal tax code allows people in no income tax states (like FL) to use sales tax instead for deductions.  But by the double taxation argument means that it should not that be additive and not in replace off.  Namely sales tax should always be deductible on federal taxes and maybe state and local taxes (I guess less of an argument there just like the FICA/Obamacare for federal taxes).

If we did that then while I would not agree with this system I would agree it is internally consistent.  What the GOP Senate plan is internally consistent on the basis that all taxes are separate and what one pays for one should not affect the other.

Sales Tax is something which is levied on most goods & there will be so many transactions, that it is totally impossible to even track it. Besides, it essentially adds to the price of goods, you get goods at a higher price. The key thing here is direct & indirect taxes. Indirect taxes go through private organizations & are levied on goods.

The concept here is Direct taxes which are levied directly by state & local bodies - Like property & Income taxes. Property taxes & income taxes should be deductible IMO. Both of them are a variation of direct taxes. But with property tax atleast one can argue. Income taxes are key basic direct tax levied on income.

Why on earth should one pay taxes on it a 2nd time at the state level? In general, by global standards, most of the direct taxes are levied at the federal level (Corporate, Personal Income taxes). The bulk of the tax revenue of direct taxes goes to the Federal level. Ideally, if you pay income tax X on your state, that X shouldn't be part of your taxable income. That is the reason SALT deduction has been there since the inception of the Tax code.

Why bother trying to convince him?  Or are you trying to convince us or some unseen audience that your position is the more reasonable one?

A guy with an e-score of 9 is arguing for tax hikes in liberal states using liberal talking points.  Because the reform is completely regressive and there is no argument for it.

The right wing is off the hinges, tossing through the tumult and they think everything is fine!  

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The University of Chicago surveyed over 40 leading economists.  They found exactly one who agreed that the proposed tax changes will substantially grow the economy.

http://www.igmchicago.org/igm-economic-experts-panel

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"we have to pass it to find out what's in it"

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The GOP is such a disgusting embarrassment.

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This is two pages taken from the bill. Democrats are complaining that the margin edit on the second page is illegible.

https://assets.bwbx.io/documents/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/r1cuem4Zyg6U/v0

Look at the bottom of page 2, some words are literally cut off the page. Is this seriously how the Republicans govern?

Maverick J-Mac disagrees with you.  

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This is two pages taken from the bill. Democrats are complaining that the margin edit on the second page is illegible.

https://assets.bwbx.io/documents/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/r1cuem4Zyg6U/v0

Look at the bottom of page 2, some words are literally cut off the page. Is this seriously how the Republicans govern?

It's like a bunch of 8-year-old kids trying to form a club and make some rules.

a boys club.. while the well organized girls club on the other side of the yard stand, arms crossed, unimpressed.  You just hear hushed whispers and giggles and occasionally one of them looks up at the girls with a sh**t eating grin and then back into the huddle.