Greek Referendum on IMF/Troika deal

[Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese]

There's so much crying, hyperbole and wishful-thinking from both sides in this thread which sorts of clouds the discussion of what the consequences of this will actually be.

Some people, just like in January, seem to have the silly idea that this all of a sudden will change the position of the Troika, or that Renzi, or good gracious Hollande for that matter, will swoop in and stand up to the "German tyrants" (or whatever some people in this thread would call them) just because they have finally heard the Greek voices loud and clear. Everybody knew that the Greeks don't like austerity measures before, in that regard, nothing has changed. The bottom line is still where it was a week ago. So everybody who now expects a cushy deal for Greece are self-delusional.

Now I wouldn't say this must mean the end for Greek participation in the Euro, as I could still imagine a potential deal which would satisfy and save the face of both sides... but it probably will be the end. Everybody who has read between the lines knows that the real question being asked in this referendum, and the reason Tsipras felt the need of it, is to have a mandate to leave the monetary part of the union if he couldn't get a favourable deal enough.

So Greece will probably be forced to leave the Euro. Which I think will be best for the Greek people in the long run. Sure, there will be economic chaos and turmoil which will hurt like hell, and many Greeks will unfortunately get squeezed by it and suffer, but it gives Greece the chance to get in control of their own monetary policy once more, which is necessary if there is ever to be a true recovery. You see, as much as I disagree with the so-called anti-austerity folk I agree with them on one thing, it is not possible for Greece to exit this crisis if the decisions are taken above their heads by other people. They themselves must be the people behind the steering wheel, not the Troika. But for that to happen they must leave the Euro behind.

So at the end of the day, I think what this vote actually means, is a nail in the coffin of the deadly idea of European federalism. And as such, I think it's the best result for all of Europe.       
 

     

[Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese]

I want to see Merkel et al go ahead and try to kick Greece out of the Eurozone... only for the European courts to overrule it for violating their treaties with Greece

I would be careful to count the CJEU as opponents of either Grexit or austerity. Juncker, Tusk, and Merkel wouldn't throw around the threat of Grexit unless their legal advisers have a strong case for its legality. The court has already shown itself to be willing to accept questionable interpretations of the treaties if it is the pragmatic thing to do, and they are much more likely to be favorable to Merkel than to Tsipras .   

[Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese]

So we are apparently more pro-Troika in Sweden than they are in Germany. Who would have guessed.

[Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese]

I'd like to see figures from the other so-called PIIGS (and Cyprus).

Yeah me too. Unfortunately these were the only numbers I could find. :/

[Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese]

So in the end only KKE and the Nazis voted no, and governmental opposition amounted to nothing more than a few abstentions.

[Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese]

I'm going to do something I don't do often and come to Greece's defense. Though I'm greatly sympathetic to the North and East Europeans having a hard time trusting the Greek government's intentions, and not wanting to force their taxpayers to pour even more money into Greece, Tsipras has in the last days shown great will to compromise and has streched himself beyond what anyone thought he'd ever be willing to do. Pragmatism should be met with pragmatism. 

Though I still maintain that I believe that the best thing for Greece in the long run would be to leave the Euro, and be able to retake control of their own monetary policy, Tsipras has shown that it's not the road he wants to take and he seems to be willing to go to great lengths to stay in the Euro. Therefore the creditors should meet them half-way.

Of course, the reforms should be passed at the quickest possible speed in order for Greece to not backpaddle once they get the money.

GDP per capita

Greece 21,653
Slovakia 18,454

Yes "self-righteous pricks".

I guess they won't be satisfied until Greece's GDP per capita drops below theirs. At the current rate, it should only take a couple years.

Really?! A poor but responsible country should pay for a more wealthy but wasteful one. You cannot be serious. Does Greece have an inherent right to be better of than Slovakia even though Slovakia is being responsible with their economy when Greece is not? If this is modern Socialism, I really understand why you guys can't win an election outside of Greece to save your lives.   

[Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese]

Will he be able to get the deal through in Parliament without causing the collapse of his government though? I guess Tsipras could survive losing ANEL, but if large chunks of his own party starts to fall off he's in deep sh.it

[Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese]

You should all read this article. It's the greatest in-look I've gotten on the Tsipras' government and the negociation process.

The question I have though, if Tsipras was not going to go for Varoufakis plan, Whyred did he call the referendum?