oh louisiana.

[justfollowingtheelections]

Meanwhile in TN:
http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2009/may/26/house-gives-final-passage-guns--parks-bill/

The country has gone nuts for guns.

it's as if we're moving backwards while the rest of the world is moving forward.  i don't even care if someone wants guns for hunting.  this however is insane and senator pits support is ridiculous.

[justfollowingtheelections]

I contacted my state rep asking him to support this bill.

why would you want people to bring their guns on a college campus?

senator realisticidealist:  false.  has it occurred to you that most people don't particularly care about carrying a gun?  what this does is make it easier for people to start shooting each other.  it's ridiculous to say that someone would bring a gun on campus to defend themselves.  it's far more likely that potential shooters will do that instead.

this is almost as ridiculous as the argument that gun control makes it more difficult for women to defend themselves from rapists, when everyone knows that the rapists are far more likely to own a gun than the victims and therefore use it to commit a crime.

[justfollowingtheelections]

OMG, EVERY CAMPUS IS GOING TO BE SOAKED IN BLOOD AND EVERYBODYS GOING TO DIE!!1!11!!!!!  WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN!!!!1111!!!!!  OMG!!!!!11

omg letts go buy guns cuz commie obama and those damn librulz will take them from uss!!!

[justfollowingtheelections]

I contacted my state rep asking him to support this bill.

why would you want people to bring their guns on a college campus?

senator realisticidealist:  false.  has it occurred to you that most people don't particularly care about carrying a gun?  what this does is make it easier for people to start shooting each other.  it's ridiculous to say that someone would bring a gun on campus to defend themselves.  it's far more likely that potential shooters will do that instead.

this is almost as ridiculous as the argument that gun control makes it more difficult for women to defend themselves from rapists, when everyone knows that the rapists are far more likely to own a gun than the victims and therefore use it to commit a crime.

     You seem to presuppose that gun control makes it significantly less likely for those who want to shoot up a college campus to be able to do so. I posit that that is not the case.

That is pretty much what I was saying. Gun control won't stop someone who really wants to shoot up a campus from trying. Gun laws might dissuade a few people who might have wanted to, but so might the knowledge that people may be carrying them for self-defense. Sure, most people won't carry a gun to school, but all it takes is one person carrying one to defend themself to save many lives.

i honestly doubt that someone would be discouraged to bring a gun to school to shoot people just because they know others will be carrying them as well.  my other argument is that someone who is inclined to shoot people is more likely to carry a gun than someone who isn't.  it's very similar to what i said above about rapists and rape victims.

[justfollowingtheelections]

If there were some way to make sure that no one ever brought a gun onto campus, that would be the best option. If there were some way to make sure that no one had a gun in the whole world, that would be the best option. But those are not options.

i can't help it if lennon's imagine is my favorite song

[justfollowingtheelections]

why would you want people to bring their guns on a college campus?

senator realisticidealist:  false.  has it occurred to you that most people don't particularly care about carrying a gun?  what this does is make it easier for people to start shooting each other.  it's ridiculous to say that someone would bring a gun on campus to defend themselves.  it's far more likely that potential shooters will do that instead.

If there were some way to make sure that no one ever brought a gun onto campus, that would be the best option. If there were some way to make sure that no one had a gun in the whole world, that would be the best option. But those are not options.

I'm a junior in college, and I've visited plenty of other college campuses. You don't go through metal detectors to go into campus. You don't have your car searched. You just drive in and park. Classrooms are not locked, and don't have security. Anyone who wants to can drive onto campus with a gun or several in your backpack (the guy who shot up the civics center near my school had 2 guns) and just start shooting anywhere you want.

Even my university, which is a State University in NY doesn't have security. Our campus security is state police, if you get security called on you for any reason, you're immediately dealing with NY state police. But still, despite the fact that state troopers drive around campus all the time, there's nothing stopping you from putting a gun in your backpack and walking into a class, dorm, dining hall or any other building.

So if the ease of carrying a gun to class is already the same as carrying a textbook, then why not at least legitimize the practice so that people can defend themselves when someone wants to shoot up a class?

And what happens when someone who gets insulted or pissed off decides to pull out a gun instead of fists?

excellent point

[justfollowingtheelections]

For the record, I am uncertain about the wisdom of this bill, especially given that college students are not necessarily renowned for their maturity.  That having been said, those states that have liberalized gun laws are not exactly swimming in blood with decaying bullet-ridden corpses behind every closed door either, while cities that tend to have the strictest gun control laws typically have the highest crime rates.  Let Louisiana legalize the right of college students to bring concealed weapons on campus, and see what happens.  One thing is for certain -the gun ban on the Virginia Tech campus didn't do jacksh**t for anyone except give the perpetrator some peace of mind in knowing that no one would be able to fight back.    

the reason they have strict gun control is because of the high crime rates.  it's not the other way around.  i can understand that gun laws should be different in urban and rural areas, but nothing that i have read here has convinced me that guns should be allowed on a college campus.

[justfollowingtheelections]

And what happens when someone who gets insulted or pissed off decides to pull out a gun instead of fists?

Then someone gets shot. But you're pretending that this rule has any affect on the ability of people to carry guns. Anyone can conceal a handgun in their jacket, backpack or baggy pants. So if you're a violent type who shoots people randomly, you can already bring your gun.

In fact, a gunless fight occurred at my school last year in which it might've turned out better if some sane, law-abiding citizens actually did carry guns.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2008/06/27/2008-06-27_binghamton_university_student_at_heart_o.html

At a bar in Binghamton, where I go to school, a 6'9" basketball player stomped a 130 pound kids head in and put him in a coma for nearly a year. The kid couldn't stop him, no one around could stop him, and the guy beat him until he decided to leave and flee.

The bar is centrally located near other bars, and so there are always cops on the street. Literally there are cops no more than 15 feet from teh doorway of the bar, where this occured, and the guy got away after stomping this guys head in and nearly killing him.

Another situation where if some law-abiding, non-crazy citizens had guns that things could've turned out for the better, but in this case, the 6'9" guy can do whatever he wants.

and he could do worse if he had a gun.  there are two sides to every argument you know

[justfollowingtheelections]

the reason they have strict gun controls is because of the high crime rates. 

There is no gun control on college campuses. Anyone can bring a gun anywhere on campus. There are no metal detectors, no security checkpoints, no bag searches, nothing.

he said that places with strict gun control have higher crime rates and was using that as an argument to why gun control is ineffective.  that's what i was responding too.  he wasn't talking specifically about college campuses.

[justfollowingtheelections]

and he could do worse if he had a gun.  there are two sides to every argument you know

Yes, of course. But it goes from a completely unfair fight to a situation where the victim could potentially defend himself. As it is the kid is lucky he survived, another kick probably would've killed him. I've seen footage of him, and there are people who've been shot in the head who recovered far more fully.

well true, but don't you think that the person with violent tendencies would be more likely to carry a gun than the poor victim of the case you describe (or a rape victim perhaps)?

[justfollowingtheelections]

I contacted my state rep asking him to support this bill.

why would you want people to bring their guns on a college campus?

senator realisticidealist:  false.  has it occurred to you that most people don't particularly care about carrying a gun?  what this does is make it easier for people to start shooting each other.  it's ridiculous to say that someone would bring a gun on campus to defend themselves.  it's far more likely that potential shooters will do that instead.

this is almost as ridiculous as the argument that gun control makes it more difficult for women to defend themselves from rapists, when everyone knows that the rapists are far more likely to own a gun than the victims and therefore use it to commit a crime.

     You seem to presuppose that gun control makes it significantly less likely for those who want to shoot up a college campus to be able to do so. I posit that that is not the case.

That is pretty much what I was saying. Gun control won't stop someone who really wants to shoot up a campus from trying. Gun laws might dissuade a few people who might have wanted to, but so might the knowledge that people may be carrying them for self-defense. Sure, most people won't carry a gun to school, but all it takes is one person carrying one to defend themself to save many lives.

i honestly doubt that someone would be discouraged to bring a gun to school to shoot people just because they know others will be carrying them as well.  my other argument is that someone who is inclined to shoot people is more likely to carry a gun than someone who isn't.  it's very similar to what i said above about rapists and rape victims.

     Yet if a gunman comes to shoot 50 kids & just one of them happens to be carrying a gun, the shooter's rampage could meet an early end. It isn't to say that this would completely end all campus shootings, but it could potentially save numerous lives if we suppose that it does not significantly increase the odds of a campus shooting occurring, but does increase the odds of a gunman being killed before killing all or most of his targets.

and at the same time it increases the likelihood that someone with violent tendencies would bring a gun.  so if instead of killing 50 he kills 10 (and there's a very good reason why i say he) and we have 5 such incidents instead of 1, the results are the same.

[justfollowingtheelections]

i can't continue this discussion right now, but i promise to respond to any other arguments presented later

[justfollowingtheelections]

I think you're overestimating the number of people who would bring a gun simply to defend themselves.  I can tell you that the last thing most college students have in mind is defending themselves on the case of such an incident.  You're also forgetting that in order to protect yourself and other students you need to be a good shooter yourself or you could cause more harm than good.

[justfollowingtheelections]

Can I ask something?

Are there any cases in which you gun nuts believe gun control should exist?  Because my impression is that you believe guns should be allowed EVERYWHERE and frankly it's your inability to compromise that makes it so hard to have a real discussion with you people.

[justfollowingtheelections]

Can I ask something?

Are there any cases in which you gun nuts believe gun control should exist?  Because my impression is that you believe guns should be allowed EVERYWHERE and frankly it's your inability to compromise that makes it so hard to have a real discussion with you people.

Yes, crazy people shouldn't have guns nor ex-fellons that used a gun to commit a crime.  Explosives should be highly restricted, as should fully automatic weapons.  Guns shouldn't be allowed inside of businesses, homes or other private property if the owner of the property doesn't want them there.

You want more compromise, change the Constitution.

I would if I could but unfortunately the democrats are no better than republicans on this issue.  But hey at least you're willing to make some compromises.