Poor people, health care, and the United States

[Shira]

Level of spending isn't the only criteria for judging health care - I can go to the doctor here for about $4 to $5. 

Of course I'm skeptical of your source, but if there is some spending on the poor for health care it is due to liberal programs such as Medicaid.  Thanks, Democratic Party!

Again and again:
The key numbers by which a health care system is evaluated are life expectancy and infant mortality. These numbers in our country are substantially worse than those in Japan, Australia, Canada and West-Europe.

[Shira]

And the solution is simple and obvious:

Extend Medicare:

1 - Medicare should provide the subscribed medications.

2 - Medicare should be extended to the whole population.

The above is far from being revolutionary or bold. That's more or less what exists in the UK and in other civilized countries.
In all these countries the healthcare cost per-capita is lower than in the US.
So, this solution is also the least expensive

[Shira]

As we've already established, no one wants sh**tty Canadian health care.

Canada is a democracy. If people there did not like their Health Care system they would have replaced their government. One PM (I forgot his name) tried to reduce (not to cancel) the Health Care system.  Immediately in the next election he was voted out.

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It is hard for me to decide whether you are stupid, wicked or ignorant. I tend to think that you are an ignorant, at least on this issue.

[Shira]

My concern is that people who are good citizens but cant afford it dont have it. its these people that i want to help.

In the citizen-government relations there are two elements:
The “Give” – what’s the government gives you or provides you with:  different services.
The “Take” – what you give to the government or what the government takes from you: taxes.

The “Give” system should be egalitarian.
The “Take” system should be progressive.

There are some ultra-conservatives and Libertarians who would love the equation:

“Give”=”Take”=0 

[Shira]

Question:
In west Europe the people have free choice to decide what kind of Health Care system they want. Why did they decide to have HC system run by the government?

Remember that before WW2 the European system was like the American one.

[Shira]

Try to be more scientific and less emotional.
Why all this arguing back and forth?
There are countries with Health Care system run by their governments and countries where the Health Care system is mostly private.
Simply compare the major numbers that the specific Health Care system is producing and the cost per capita needed to maintain this system.

[Shira]

The poor are poor because they are lazy. Why should hard-workining Americans pay for their health Care?

[Shira]

The poor are poor because they are lazy. Why should hard-workining Americans pay for their health Care?

well, your sarcasm aside, it's true that the middle is being squeezed.  For example, my family is not rich enough to really benefit from the Rich breaks, nor poor enough to benefit from the poor breaks.  Our physician, an affable old white jewish fat guy, in answer to a question about where to get some formula for our child, should we choose to supplement his diet with formula (we haven't needed to yet), said to check into WIC.  We did.  We found out that you have to have an income that is not greater than 1.85 times the poverty level for a family of 3 in order to get those benefits.  We do not qualify.  It's the same way for the free clinic, the shots, and all the rest.  Poor people are no less "deserving" of health care than I.  Nor are they any more "deserving" than I.  There are two sides to that coin.

Every one deserves. The HC system should be a governmental service. Do you have any idea of how many bureaucrats  are dealing with the issue of who deserves what.

[Shira]

Opebo, I don't qualify for the Plutocratic/Business Welfare variety either.  I'm taking sides with no one except myself here.  I'd think you might be able to relate to that.  But I do think you provide an excellent example of the sort of abuse that happens, and it is not surprising that so many here think you're just posing to make the Democrats look even worse than they already do.  (I repeat that I am not one of them, but then I'm rather naive about the ettiquette of fraud.)

Technically it wasn't abuse, as I had no 'income' in an official sense, though I was getting money from home.  Anyway, far better that a safety net exist and be abused by a tiny number of rich kids temporarily than to do away with it and gaurantee terrible hardships for the genuinely destititute.

But I am sympathetic with the idea of eliminating upper-class subsidy and graft, and increasing aid to the poor.  I have no idea what your income is, but I have to admit in your case I would probably assign your 'need' a low priority and suggest you sell the Mercedes and buy an old Buick...

No one should feed the poor. Believe it or not but in Norway, Sweden and in other civilized nations there are no poor people. (There are not ultra rich ones as well). Basically you can say that everyone there is on welfare. The desired formula is not too complicated. There is the GET and there is the GIVE. The GET are the various services that you get from the governments (federal, state, city) and The GIVE is what you pay to those services providers (taxes – in simple language). The GET should be egalitarian, while the GIVE should be progressive (according to the wealth of the individual). Very clear and simple.

[Shira]

Believe it or not but in Norway, Sweden and in other civilized nations there are no poor people.

Right.  Poverty is strictly an American phenomenon.

The amazing thing is the governments of Scandanavian countries say 'There is no poverty in OUR nation" then make sure that they draw the poverty line below the amount of money the government gives everyone. 

They could set the poverty line at less than $.01/yr, give everyone $.02 each year and still say there is no poverty.

Lots of governments claim to have no poverty.  The Saudis say they have no poor people in their country.

There is a clear definition of "poor". In Portugal and Greece, for example, the figures are not as good as in Scandinavia but not as bad as the US ones.

[Shira]

 Because there's no middle-men, they have extremely low prices, which of course keeps business up.

Healthcare should not be a business but an egalitarian service provided by the federal government.