Liberal Richard Nixon revisionism vs. liberal Alexander Hamilton revisionism (user search)
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  Liberal Richard Nixon revisionism vs. liberal Alexander Hamilton revisionism (search mode)
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Poll
Question: Which is less bad?
#1
Nixon
 
#2
Hamilton
 
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Partisan results

Total Voters: 37

Author Topic: Liberal Richard Nixon revisionism vs. liberal Alexander Hamilton revisionism  (Read 2416 times)
Devout Centrist
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Posts: 10,133
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E: -99.99, S: -99.99

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« on: March 26, 2017, 06:32:51 PM »

Okay, Hamilton easily. Any attempts to downplay the sh*tfest that was Richard Nixon is appalling.

Hamilton was no doubt a hardcore conservative in the American political arena, but the United States was radically liberal by global standards. That in addition to his support for abolition makes him a better figure than Tricky Dick, even if revisionism is nonsense.
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Devout Centrist
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 10,133
United States


Political Matrix
E: -99.99, S: -99.99

P P
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2017, 07:06:07 PM »

There was no "conservatism" in the early United States. What there was was Toryism, which was associated with having opposed the Revolution and which, while clearly on the right, cut across groups that would today be viewed as all over the place on the scale of socioeconomic advantage. Inasmuch as seeking to conserve political and economic forms inherited from Britain (or replicate forms present in Britain) could be seen as "conservative", Hamilton was obviously more conservative than noted Reign of Terror apologist Jefferson, and he was indisputably reactionary and elitist regardless.

In Jefferson's America, an ideology based on urbanism, government bureaucracy, and the working class would be unfathomable; in Hamilton's America, it would be the natural left pole of national policy. And, indeed, it is.

In Hamilton's America the working class would never have gained the right to vote, and so such ideology would never stand an even remote chance.
It's hard to see how any of the framers or founders would want the working class (or at least racial minorities and women) to get the right to vote.

In Hamilton's America, you'd probably see a unitary state with an urban political class and a hereditary upper house, somewhat similar to the House of Lords with appointments. We see reflections of this with the electoral college and the general distrust in democracy that was present among Federalists. Suffrage would likely remain in the hands of property holding men, at least until reforms were enacted to change voting rights. Slavery would be illegal and it's likely agrarian interests would be diminished in their capacity, alongside rural ones as well.

In Jefferson's America, there would be a lot less power concentrated in the Federal government, an almost nonexistent army, and a consensus around an agrarian republic. There would be no central banking or really any regulations on banking entirely, and states would pay their own debts as they incurred them. Slavery would likely continue to exist and the cities would receive little influence on the affairs of surrounding communities. In addition, voting rights would probably be extended to white men that did not own land, but not beyond that. The upperhouse would likely be elected and be based around population, with slaves included as a whole person for representation purposes.

Both sides have their failings and it's important to note that both are extremely outdated. There's little one can find comforting about either. In the case of Hamilton's, a unitary state without a Bill of Rights is pretty terrifying in a modern context. Jefferson's America, if he had stayed true to his principles, would probably be a rural backwater with even worse divides between states, and cities that were never fully developed. States would have large conflicts and the US would remain these United States.
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