What do you think God is?

[bedstuy]

To be honest, the strongest reason I have for believing in God is my inability to take the leap of faith that we humans have divined enough of the universe to know that we are only a bunch of biochemicals trying to replicate our molecules.

But why should we think we deserve to be more than that? We just so happen to be a process in the universe that is (only by our own measure, remember) the most self-aware on this planet. Within pre-history, we have lost a competitor species who was also self-aware but to differing degree and with a differing outlook. And as for other planets around other suns in other galaxies well then who knows. It makes little sense to think that because we hold ourselves in such high esteem, even as the world outside our own window has grown immensely, that we are special enough to matter to the universe.

We are made of matter. We shouldn’t be put off by that for the same reason we shouldn’t be put off by the fact we are animals. We are here because we are here. Life is a process, not a condition that requires a diagnosis. You don't 'have life'. You do life. You are life. Life is not a property of matter, it is not the reason for the existence of the physical matter that that assembled to make up you. Other collections of physical matter don’t have life. Life is therefore one of many things that matter does.

Aren't we lucky.

And that’s okay.

That makes a lot of sense.  Here's how I would look at it. 

Given the size of the universe, it's entirely likely that life would arise.  There are one hundred billion galaxies and our own by itself has 300 billion stars.  And, in those places where life happened, there is going to be one smartest species.  It's funny, we humans think our ability to think and reason is a trait that's more important than anything else and our superior skill in that area must have a purpose. 

But, imagine a blue whale, a blue whale might think he's the unique special animal on this planet because he's the biggest.  Bacteria might have a good claim as the most numerous creature on the planet.  A redwood might think being tallest is the key trait that makes them unique.  It's an entirely silly, selfish idea. 

Humans happen to be the smartest like redwoods happen to be tallest.  There is no basis to reason anything from there.  And, are we really lucky?  It's not like there's some lottery where disembodied spirits get assigned to be either a human or a plant or wisp of vapor on Jupiter.  Like the famous American sports proverb says, it is what it is.

[bedstuy]

Within pre-history, we have lost a competitor species who was also self-aware but to differing degree and with a differing outlook.

Are you referring to Homo (sapiens) neanderthalensis or some other homonid?  While it is possible that they were a separate species, the evidence that Neanderthals were a separate species rather than a localized subspecies that lost out as its preferred habitat disappeared is decidedly lacking.  To me it appears that a large part of the desire that they be considered so is due to the same impulses that lead to the noble savage meme.

You're being a tad pedantic over my use of the word 'species'

Ernest being pedantic, what a shock.  I actually saw a news story on this subject recently.

http://www.sci-news.com/othersciences/anthropology/science-homo-neanderthalensis-neanderthals-separate-human-species-02284.html

[bedstuy]

To be honest, the strongest reason I have for believing in God is my inability to take the leap of faith that we humans have divined enough of the universe to know that we are only a bunch of biochemicals trying to replicate our molecules.

But why should we think we deserve to be more than that? We just so happen to be a process in the universe that is (only by our own measure, remember) the most self-aware on this planet. Within pre-history, we have lost a competitor species who was also self-aware but to differing degree and with a differing outlook. And as for other planets around other suns in other galaxies well then who knows. It makes little sense to think that because we hold ourselves in such high esteem, even as the world outside our own window has grown immensely, that we are special enough to matter to the universe.

We are made of matter. We shouldn’t be put off by that for the same reason we shouldn’t be put off by the fact we are animals. We are here because we are here. Life is a process, not a condition that requires a diagnosis. You don't 'have life'. You do life. You are life. Life is not a property of matter, it is not the reason for the existence of the physical matter that that assembled to make up you. Other collections of physical matter don’t have life. Life is therefore one of many things that matter does.

Aren't we lucky.

And that’s okay.

That makes a lot of sense.  Here's how I would look at it. 

Given the size of the universe, it's entirely likely that life would arise.  There are one hundred billion galaxies and our own by itself has 300 billion stars.  And, in those places where life happened, there is going to be one smartest species.  It's funny, we humans think our ability to think and reason is a trait that's more important than anything else and our superior skill in that area must have a purpose. 

But, imagine a blue whale, a blue whale might think he's the unique special animal on this planet because he's the biggest.  Bacteria might have a good claim as the most numerous creature on the planet.  A redwood might think being tallest is the key trait that makes them unique.  It's an entirely silly, selfish idea. 

Humans happen to be the smartest like redwoods happen to be tallest.  There is no basis to reason anything from there.  And, are we really lucky?  It's not like there's some lottery where disembodied spirits get assigned to be either a human or a plant or wisp of vapor on Jupiter.  Like the famous American sports proverb says, it is what it is.

What does whether or not we have a special place in the universe have to do with whether the Divine exists?  I'll admit that one's views on the subject would affect how one perceives the Divine.

Oh, that's the clear implication of what you said.

To be honest, the strongest reason I have for believing in God is my inability to take the leap of faith that we humans have divined enough of the universe to know that we are only a bunch of biochemicals trying to replicate our molecules.

My point is that there's a disconnect between the human perspective and reality.  The fact that humans are here is remarkable from a human perspective has no real bearing on anything.  What you find remarkable is defined by your limited perspective on the universe, which would likely be shared by any living, conscious being.

[bedstuy]

What does whether or not we have a special place in the universe have to do with whether the Divine exists?  I'll admit that one's views on the subject would affect how one perceives the Divine.

Oh, that's the clear implication of what you said.

To be honest, the strongest reason I have for believing in God is my inability to take the leap of faith that we humans have divined enough of the universe to know that we are only a bunch of biochemicals trying to replicate our molecules.

My point is that there's a disconnect between the human perspective and reality.  The fact that humans are here is remarkable from a human perspective has no real bearing on anything.  What you find remarkable is defined by your limited perspective on the universe, which would likely be shared by any living, conscious being.

Exactly.  We have a limited perspective, and it is insufficient to explain life, the universe, and everything.  But that hardly implies that we have a special place in the universe.  Indeed, I would hold that if anything the argument for humanity having a special place in the universe would be stronger, not weaker, if we were self-aware beings in a universe explainable through the use of only immutable physical laws.  However in either case, the argument for having or not having a special place is inconclusive.

So, what don't you understand about what I said?