Poland bans abortion in the case of fetal defects

[NewYorkExpress]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-54642108

Poland's top court has ruled that abortions in cases of foetal defects are unconstitutional.

Poland's abortion laws were already among the strictest in Europe but the Constitutional Tribunal's ruling will mean an almost total ban.

Once the decision comes into effect, terminations will only be allowed in cases of rape or incest, or if the mother's health is at risk.

....

A legal challenge against the 1993 law permitting abortion in cases of severe foetal disabilities - which accounts for 98% of terminations carried out in Poland - was launched by MPs from the ruling nationalist Law and Justice party last year.

A majority of the court's judges were nominated by the same party.

[H. Ross Peron]

Was about to post this. I guess Poland has one of the strictest abortion laws in the world law, even as countries like Ireland and Chile have liberalized.

[lfromnj]

Looking at it, it seems like the similar type of judicial activism that got the US, Roe v  Wade,except in reverse.(I highly doubt even the 6-3 court will even come close to a decision like this, I think Alito is really the only one tempted enough to use the 14th amendment to declare equality for all lives or something like that)

If anyone could tell me what actually happened in the case it would be well appreciated but I am guessing they just argued all life is protected under an extreme interpretation of the Polish constitution.

[Samof94]

Looking at it, it seems like the similar type of judicial activism that got the US, Roe v  Wade(I highly doubt even the 6-3 court will even come close to a decision like this, I think Alito is really the only one tempted enough to use the 14th amendment to declare equality for all lives or something like that)

If anyone could tell me what actually happened in the case it would be well appreciated but I am guessing they just argued all life is protected under an extreme interpretation of the Polish constitution.

Duda is trying to become a dictator.

[CumbrianLefty]

Nice country.

[Former President tack50]

Looking at it, it seems like the similar type of judicial activism that got the US, Roe v  Wade(I highly doubt even the 6-3 court will even come close to a decision like this, I think Alito is really the only one tempted enough to use the 14th amendment to declare equality for all lives or something like that)

If anyone could tell me what actually happened in the case it would be well appreciated but I am guessing they just argued all life is protected under an extreme interpretation of the Polish constitution.

From the NYT article on the matter this is apparently their legal argument:

In the ruling, the tribunal’s president, Julia Przylebska, said that allowing abortions in cases of fetal abnormality legalized “eugenic practices with regard to an unborn child, thus denying it the respect and protection of human dignity.”

Because the Polish Constitution guarantees a right to life, she added, terminating a pregnancy based on the health of the fetus amounted to “a directly forbidden form of discrimination.”

[...]

The tribunal ruled, though, that abortions on the basis of fetal abnormalities violated the dignity of human life, a principle enshrined in the Polish Constitution. It further held that such abortions go against the principle of nondiscrimination and respect for human life, and that a fetus acquires those rights at conception

.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Basing the rationale on rejection of discrimination against the disabled is great to see, even though the ruling itself is obvious right-wing judicial activism.

[lfromnj]

Continuing to read the NYT article

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/22/world/europe/poland-tribunal-abortions.html

Women’s rights advocates say that the tribunal’s decision will in some cases force women to give birth to terminally ill children and amount to an effective ban on abortion — something the government has not been able to accomplish through legislation.

It is actually crazy how much this resembles Roe except in the opposite direction

Pro Life rights advocates say that the tribunal’s decision will in some cases allow women to abort at anytime and amount to an effective full legalization of abortion — something the government has not been able to accomplish through legislation.

Replaced key parts and changed it slightly. I hope this gives "living constitutionalists" atleast a forewarning of what could actually be the  reverse of Roe in the US if our judges were as shoddy as this.

[It’s so Joever]

For such a pro-life country, they do like to turn their backs on migrants.

Freedom ruling, horrible country.

[afleitch]

Terrible decision forcing those pregnant to carry to term a foetus with severe abnormalities and dealing with the psychological trauma of having to watch it die shortly afterwards. Fortunately and unfortunately women and transmen can obtain a termination in another EU state. But a human caravan in order to obtain basic medical care is utterly shameful.

[Battista Minola 1616]

I am honestly quite surprised by that 98% number.

Anyway, few things irk me more than judicial activism on abortion. I hoped it was a practice confined to the other side of the Atlantic however...

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

I am honestly quite surprised by that 98% number.

Anyway, few things irk me more than judicial activism on abortion. I hoped it was a practice confined to the other side of the Atlantic however...

It never has been. West Germany also had a history of pro-life judicial activism.

[DC Al Fine]

I am honestly quite surprised by that 98% number.

Anyway, few things irk me more than judicial activism on abortion. I hoped it was a practice confined to the other side of the Atlantic however...

It never has been. West Germany also had a history of pro-life judicial activism.

Interesting. Details?

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

I am honestly quite surprised by that 98% number.

Anyway, few things irk me more than judicial activism on abortion. I hoped it was a practice confined to the other side of the Atlantic however...

It never has been. West Germany also had a history of pro-life judicial activism.

Interesting. Details?

I came across this article awhile back that goes into German Court decisions in 1975 and 1993 that pushed back against the legislatures' attempts to liberalize abortion law:

    A Tale of Two Countries: American and German Attitudes to Abortion Since World War II
    John J. Hunt http://www.uffl.org/vol%204/hunt4.pdf

The approach of the Court generally has been that human life is in principle to be protected throughout pregnancy, but in practice is balanced with other concerns and so isn't necessarily prohibited completely.

[CumbrianLefty]

I am honestly quite surprised by that 98% number.

I suspect the definition used may be just a little "flexible".

[America Needs a 13-6 Progressive SCOTUS]

Bad. Not only is Abortion an important option when the fetus would otherwise be defective, its the only moral option in some of the more extreme cases.

[Leading Political Consultant Ma Anand Sheela]

The original piece of judicial activism was the ruling that struck down the more liberal abortion law in 1997 on dubious grounds (the dissenting opinion is very funny, just pages and pages of 'there is no inherent logical connection between these things you're citing in support of your position, you're making things up'). Despite that, and much to the chagrin of the left, over the decades the settlement created by that ruling gained acceptance. This ruling, which is basically an overt declaration of culture war designed in a lab to radicalise moderates, was only made possible by PiS stacking and manipulating the constitutional court and even putting extremely partisan frontline politicians on it to make it politically pliable and then using it push through a piece of culture war red meat to reward hardcore supporters for their loyalty. Obviously this bears little resemblance to Roe - not everything is about America.

I am honestly quite surprised by that 98% number.

I suspect the definition used may be just a little "flexible".

Possibly, but access even in cases where the law permitted it before now has tended to vary from region to region and even hospital to hospital. It will possibly have been easiest to obtain one where the fetus is clearly not viable anyway.

[Samof94]

A bit unrelated, but their populist President has Covid-19.

[H. Ross Peron]

A bit unrelated, but their populist President has Covid-19.

Recent development?

[Samof94]

A bit unrelated, but their populist President has Covid-19.

Recent development?

Yes

[afleitch]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/30/pro-choice-supporters-hold-biggest-ever-protest-against-polish-government

100k to the streets.

Duda realising that forcing women to carry to term and give birth to children with terminal defects to watch them die might be seriously f-cked up after all.

[lfromnj]

The original piece of judicial activism was the ruling that struck down the more liberal abortion law in 1997 on dubious grounds (the dissenting opinion is very funny, just pages and pages of 'there is no inherent logical connection between these things you're citing in support of your position, you're making things up'). Despite that, and much to the chagrin of the left, over the decades the settlement created by that ruling gained acceptance. This ruling, which is basically an overt declaration of culture war designed in a lab to radicalise moderates, was only made possible by PiS stacking and manipulating the constitutional court and even putting extremely partisan frontline politicians on it to make it politically pliable and then using it push through a piece of culture war red meat to reward hardcore supporters for their loyalty. Obviously this bears little resemblance to Roe - not everything is about America.

I am honestly quite surprised by that 98% number.

I suspect the definition used may be just a little "flexible".

Possibly, but access even in cases where the law permitted it before now has tended to vary from region to region and even hospital to hospital. It will possibly have been easiest to obtain one where the fetus is clearly not viable anyway.

I mean the original ruling in the US was actually Griswold v CT having to do with birth control and was made on dubious grounds and it was used to form the base argument for Roe v Wade. Infact we even have a dissenting opinion from Griswold from Hugo Black, who was actually one of the more expansive justices when it came to constitutional civil rights after World War 2 atleast and willing to very liberally apply the first amendment to the states which was a unique legal idea at that time, but generally one that holds true.

Justices Hugo Black and Potter Stewart dissented from the Court's decision. Both justices' dissents argued that because the U.S. Constitution does not expressly mention privacy in any of its provisions, the Court had no basis to strike down Connecticut's Comstock Law.[15] Black's dissent concluded: "I get nowhere in this case by talk about a constitutional 'right of privacy' as an emanation from one or more constitutional provisions. I like my privacy as well as the next one, but I am nevertheless compelled to admit that government has a right to invade it unless prohibited by some specific constitutional provision."[17]

I don't think Roe was as political when made as abortion wasn't as big of an issue but IIRC when the NY legislature tried to legalize it there was a lot of opposition. Obviously there wasn't any court packing for Roe although it was a  swan song or aftershock of the liberal lean of the Warren Court.  I know Europeans here hate the comparison to America but in this scenario I feel as far as I can tell it is valid to compare 2 judicially activist decisions that went in opposite directions for the same issue.

Infact as you said the decision created by Roe has gained acceptance in the legal world now largely due to the principle of stare decisis. I still don't understand why its unfair to compare this case to Roe v Wade

[Tender Branson]

That’s an extremely bad decision.

While there are some fetal defects that can lead to a somewhat acceptable life later, there are also very serious fetal defects that only lead to endless pain and suffering for that fetus, child and parents.

[Estrella]

TVP, the Polish public television, keeps being very informative, neutral and not at all a mouthpiece of the government:

https://twitter.com/WiadomosciTVP/status/1322617312231522313

Opposition politicians call on people to go out to the streets despite restrictions on gatherings during the epidemic. They hope that it will pave them a way to power.

https://twitter.com/tvp_info/status/1322579369018183681

Did German Antifa beat up people in Warsaw? Analysis of recording.

https://twitter.com/WiadomosciTVP/status/1322615285170450437

Hanged effigies of right-wing politicians, calls to burn their homes and more frequent attacks, also using knives - that's the picture of the so-called Women's Strike. Its activists attack churches, priests and believers.

[afleitch]

That’s an extremely bad decision.

While there are some fetal defects that can lead to a somewhat acceptable life later, there are also very serious fetal defects that only lead to endless pain and suffering for that fetus, child and parents.

There are fetal defects that lead to almost immediate death. The cruelty is the point.