The Wisconsin Cheese Showdown

[Franzl]

But you said it yourself....what do corporations have to do with public employees?

[Person Man]

Well, its still an issue of union strength against employers....its kind of an aggregate issue. 

[RI]

Corporatism is when the most powerful institution in society are the Corporations.

No, it's not. You're thinking of corporatocracy. Corporatism is something different entirely.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatism

[Person Man]

At either rate, we can say Plutocracy then...though I have seen it refered to in both ways. ..

[Insula Dei]

Fwiw, I'm hearing that if Walker gets things his way, low-ranking college professors who have a family with two children and who are the only source of income for their family'd qualify for Food Stamps. I don't know about you guys, but I think it a disgrace that those ridiculously overpaid teachers now are also going to leech of Welfare.

[The Dowager Mod]

The state troopers told to go after the dems refused and the capital police ignored the governors order to clear out the protesters, union solidarity is strong here.
As for teachers getting the "Blue Flu" i would prefer they wait until the strike is officially called.

[RogueBeaver]

Walker is not going to back down, he's done this in Milwaukee and will do it again. According to the WI Constitution all that needs to be done is separate the collective bargaining provision into its own bill, which can be passed with a simple majority. Once that's done the AWOL Dems will have to come back on the budget and everything else. Did they not remember what happened to the Texas Dems who pulled the same stunt 8 years ago? Got the boot in the next election.

"The process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service."

- Franklin Roosevelt

[Brittain33]

Did they not remember what happened to the Texas Dems who pulled the same stunt 8 years ago? Got the boot in the next election.

Which ones?

[Torie]

The state troopers told to go after the dems refused and the capital police ignored the governors order to clear out the protesters, union solidarity is strong here.
As for teachers getting the "Blue Flu" i would prefer they wait until the strike is officially called.

Refusing to enforce the law eh, assuming that it is the law? If so, the next step is the national guard. The state troopers work for the state right?  I wonder how they should be dealt with, if they are refusing to follow orders.

[Torie]

Teachers are overpaid all of sudden? What a load! My mom retired in 2005 after 30 years and made about 35k/year. If you want to cherry pick obscene salaries, you probably want to start with hedge fund managers.

Taxpayers don't pay those.

We do allow them to pay income taxes at a 15% rate instead of standard brackets because of a shameful loophole that they've lobbied to keep open. Check it out.

I bet you, just bet you, that the deficit commission, that outfit Obama is keeping his distance from that was his creation, and on which  all of his appointees signed off the plan that got a healthy majority of both parties on the commission, zeroed that one out. Wanna bet? Let's get on with it!

PS: I also suspect that it is a bit more complex than that they get a 15% rate, and I get (well I used to get) a 37.56% rate. It probably is transactionally driven, and/or some theory behind it that the taxes are paid elsewhere. Or maybe - as you suggest - it is just a swiving scandal. In any event, flush it.

[Zarn]

Lots of fake outrage on this thread...

Any teacher who deems his or her salary to be more important than the students he or she teaches should lose his or her job.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Good Midwest progressives.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Why is it even necessary to run to another state or wherever? Is there some bizarre law in the U.S that means that legislators can be forced to attend? I remember being confused over the Texas thing for the same reason.

[DrScholl]

Walker is not going to back down, he's done this in Milwaukee and will do it again. According to the WI Constitution all that needs to be done is separate the collective bargaining provision into its own bill, which can be passed with a simple majority. Once that's done the AWOL Dems will have to come back on the budget and everything else. Did they not remember what happened to the Texas Dems who pulled the same stunt 8 years ago? Got the boot in the next election.

"The process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service."

- Franklin Roosevelt

The issue is the quorum and nothing can be passed with out a proper quorum. Until they come back, Walker can't do a thing.

[Lunar]

Why is it even necessary to run to another state or wherever? Is there some bizarre law in the U.S that means that legislators can be forced to attend? I remember being confused over the Texas thing for the same reason.

Yes.

http://www.slate.com/id/2285532/

"The chief clerk shall immediately call the roll of the members, and note the absentees, whose names shall be read, and entered upon the journal in such manner as to show who are absent with leave and who are absent without leave. The chief clerk shall furnish the sergeant at arms with a list of those who are absent without leave, and the sergeant at arms shall forthwith proceed to find and bring in such absentees."

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Really with the way this is played, this is just going to really bite Walker and the Republicans in the ass. As noted most people know at least one public sector and know how ridiculous the "overpaid" nonsense is, especially with teachers. I have a tough time seeing Wisconsin being to the right of North Dakota on this where the vast majority of people would find that claim rather comical.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Why is it even necessary to run to another state or wherever? Is there some bizarre law in the U.S that means that legislators can be forced to attend? I remember being confused over the Texas thing for the same reason.

Yes.

http://www.slate.com/id/2285532/

"The chief clerk shall immediately call the roll of the members, and note the absentees, whose names shall be read, and entered upon the journal in such manner as to show who are absent with leave and who are absent without leave. The chief clerk shall furnish the sergeant at arms with a list of those who are absent without leave, and the sergeant at arms shall forthwith proceed to find and bring in such absentees."

That is absolutely and utterly insane.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Would that be possible without the cooperation of the local government of Madison though? Because they obviously wouldn't.

[DrScholl]

I believe the state patrol could bring them in, which is why they left the jurisdiction.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

And there you have another reason why Walker isn't messing with police unions.

[Lunar]

Why is it even necessary to run to another state or wherever? Is there some bizarre law in the U.S that means that legislators can be forced to attend? I remember being confused over the Texas thing for the same reason.

Yes.

http://www.slate.com/id/2285532/

"The chief clerk shall immediately call the roll of the members, and note the absentees, whose names shall be read, and entered upon the journal in such manner as to show who are absent with leave and who are absent without leave. The chief clerk shall furnish the sergeant at arms with a list of those who are absent without leave, and the sergeant at arms shall forthwith proceed to find and bring in such absentees."

That is absolutely and utterly insane.

I'm not sure how many states have these laws, but they do seem to be rather impractical, don't they?

[krazen1211]

Refusing to enforce the law eh, assuming that it is the law? If so, the next step is the national guard. The state troopers work for the state right?  I wonder how they should be dealt with, if they are refusing to follow orders.

Article IV, §7
   Organization of legislature; quorum; compulsory attendance. Section 7. Each house shall be the judge of the elections, returns and qualifications of its own members; and a majority of each shall constitute a quorum to do business, but a smaller number may adjourn from day to day, and may compel the attendance of absent members in such manner and under such penalties as each house may provide.

[krazen1211]

Really with the way this is played, this is just going to really bite Walker and the Republicans in the ass. As noted most people know at least one public sector and know how ridiculous the "overpaid" nonsense is, especially with teachers. I have a tough time seeing Wisconsin being to the right of North Dakota on this where the vast majority of people would find that claim rather comical.

No, not really.



In what is a combination of sad, amusing, and ironic, it looks like the liberals have destroyed public education in Madison, Milwaukee, and some other towns.

Madison Schools at least appear to be perpetually closed now since the teachers won't work anymore. I guess the next generation of leftists isn't getting an education anymore, and all those liberals are paying property taxes for, well, nothing.

[krazen1211]

Why is it even necessary to run to another state or wherever? Is there some bizarre law in the U.S that means that legislators can be forced to attend? I remember being confused over the Texas thing for the same reason.

The US and many state constitutions have such a provision.


Article IV, §7
   Organization of legislature; quorum; compulsory attendance. Section 7. Each house shall be the judge of the elections, returns and qualifications of its own members; and a majority of each shall constitute a quorum to do business, but a smaller number may adjourn from day to day, and may compel the attendance of absent members in such manner and under such penalties as each house may provide.

[krazen1211]

The issue is the quorum and nothing can be passed with out a proper quorum. Until they come back, Walker can't do a thing.

Wrong; they can pass anything non budget related with a 50% quorum.

Time to gerrymander.