The Wisconsin Cheese Showdown

[DrScholl]

It is so ridiculous that Republicans always have to create drama when the come into power. The message is clear that they need to back off, but we all know they never take a hint.

[cinyc]

Your over-the-top socialist propaganda makes no sense.  There is no genocide on the poor.  That is, unless in socialist doublespeak, genocide means ever-increasing life expectancy and living standards.

Their lives are used up to pay for the privileges of their owners, cinyc.  They're only killed immediately if they get out of line.

And how can you see no difference between a government that takes money from its citizens at gunpoint and a the private sector, which only takes money from those willing to spend it?

Private property is enforced at gunpoint, kinyc, with all the prisons to back it up.

The day of reckoning has arrived.  Those who pay the bloated salaries and pensions of public sector employees are sick and tired of it.  That's what Wisconsin voters said in 2010.  The governor is doing the work of the people who voted for him.

Of course, but the point is that those people are know-nothing dupes.

Yes, the people who don't believe your glorious socialist propaganda are know-nothing dupes.   Glorious socialists like you know-it-all!  Which is why every glorious socialist paradise implodes on itself like the Soviet Union or becomes a craphole like Cuba.   Glorious socialists and socialist governments do not know best.

[Franzl]

It appears they've flown to Rockford, Illinois.

[ag]

This one is going to be fun. The state capital in this case is, probably, even more liberal than normal (86% Obama in the city, 30% above the statewide average) . So, the governing Republican majority must be viewed almost as an occupation force.  It's always uncomfortable for a government to be based in such a hostile capital. They should just move )

[DrScholl]

Good for them.

[krazen1211]

Krazen, your literal words:

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I think that even in the US education now is better than it was in the Fifties.

Based on what, exactly?

[Marokai Backbeat]

What sheer nonsense. The most valuable people of society are the private sector who pay taxes into the government, not the people who take money out.

No, you've got that backwards - the rich exact their privileges from a gencide upon the poor.  Even if one prefers to be an exploiter (who wouldn't?), the whole system rests upon the back of the tortured worker, so he is absolutely necessary, and hence 'valuable'.  Happily 'poor people spring up out of the ground like mushrooms', as the old Thai saying goes, and so there are always more to use.  But there's the rub - they are useful, something a rich person by definition cannot be.

Your over-the-top socialist propaganda makes no sense.  There is no genocide on the poor.  That is, unless in socialist doublespeak, genocide means ever-increasing life expectancy and living standards.

And how can you see no difference between a government that takes money from its citizens at gunpoint and a the private sector, which only takes money from those willing to spend it?

The day of reckoning has arrived.  Those who pay the bloated salaries and pensions of public sector employees are sick and tired of it.  That's what Wisconsin voters said in 2010.  The governor is doing the work of the people who voted for him.

Oh give it a break. As Px said, there's no budget issue in Wisconsin except of the Governor's own creation by deliberately causing a budget shortfall. I seriously doubt the voters went to the voting booth with public employee salaries on their minds. Give the dishonesty a rest.

[Landslide Lyndon]

What sheer nonsense. The most valuable people of society are the private sector who pay taxes into the government, not the people who take money out.

No, you've got that backwards - the rich exact their privileges from a gencide upon the poor.  Even if one prefers to be an exploiter (who wouldn't?), the whole system rests upon the back of the tortured worker, so he is absolutely necessary, and hence 'valuable'.  Happily 'poor people spring up out of the ground like mushrooms', as the old Thai saying goes, and so there are always more to use.  But there's the rub - they are useful, something a rich person by definition cannot be.

Your over-the-top socialist propaganda makes no sense.  There is no genocide on the poor.  That is, unless in socialist doublespeak, genocide means ever-increasing life expectancy and living standards.

And how can you see no difference between a government that takes money from its citizens at gunpoint and a the private sector, which only takes money from those willing to spend it?

The day of reckoning has arrived.  Those who pay the bloated salaries and pensions of public sector employees are sick and tired of it.  That's what Wisconsin voters said in 2010.  The governor is doing the work of the people who voted for him.

Oh give it a break. As Px said, there's no budget issue in Wisconsin except of the Governor's own creation by deliberately causing a budget shortfall. I seriously doubt the voters went to the voting booth with public employee salaries on their minds. Give the dishonesty a rest.

Dude, it's not the first time Republicans choose to ignore reality when it doesn't fit their ideology. I bet that if you ask cinyc he will tell you in detail how social security is bringing the budget to its knees and tax cuts pay for themselves.

[krazen1211]

you can probably merge this with the other thread.

[Landslide Lyndon]

It appears they've flown to Rockford, Illinois.

Not any more.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/02/wis-dem-legislator-we-are-no-longer-at-hotel-in-rockford-and-focus-should-be-on-the-issues.php

[Ban my account ffs!]

you can probably merge this with the other thread.

Ummm... and what, exactly, does this have to do with "desperate teachers' unions force Madison schools to cancel classes"?

[memphis]

What sheer nonsense. The most valuable people of society are the private sector who pay taxes into the government, not the people who take money out.

No, you've got that backwards - the rich exact their privileges from a gencide upon the poor.  Even if one prefers to be an exploiter (who wouldn't?), the whole system rests upon the back of the tortured worker, so he is absolutely necessary, and hence 'valuable'.  Happily 'poor people spring up out of the ground like mushrooms', as the old Thai saying goes, and so there are always more to use.  But there's the rub - they are useful, something a rich person by definition cannot be.

Your over-the-top socialist propaganda makes no sense.  There is no genocide on the poor.  That is, unless in socialist doublespeak, genocide means ever-increasing life expectancy and living standards.

And how can you see no difference between a government that takes money from its citizens at gunpoint and a the private sector, which only takes money from those willing to spend it?

The day of reckoning has arrived.  Those who pay the bloated salaries and pensions of public sector employees are sick and tired of it.  That's what Wisconsin voters said in 2010.  The governor is doing the work of the people who voted for him.

Oh give it a break. As Px said, there's no budget issue in Wisconsin except of the Governor's own creation by deliberately causing a budget shortfall. I seriously doubt the voters went to the voting booth with public employee salaries on their minds. Give the dishonesty a rest.

Worth pointing out that the same crap is playing out at the federal level. Except the deficit spending is producing so much interest that the entire nation's future is compromised. The GOP has literally destroyed the nation for a few decades of lower taxes on richers. Unbelieveable!

[Lief 🗽]

American Heroes, all fourteen of them. It's good to know that some politicians in this country still care about the increasingly impoverished American worker.

[cinyc]

Oh give it a break. As Px said, there's no budget issue in Wisconsin except of the Governor's own creation by deliberately causing a budget shortfall. I seriously doubt the voters went to the voting booth with public employee salaries on their minds. Give the dishonesty a rest.

Because a self-interested left-wing interest group's analysis on an ultra left-wing website states there is no Wisconsin budget shortfall, there must not be a budget shortfall in Wisconsin except because of that no-good, evil Republican governor.   Let's ignore reality and believe budget projections from self-interested interest groups.   Who cares that almost every state has a budget deficit - Wisconsin must be special because the special interest groups decreed it so.  And who cares that more impartial sources have said yes, Wisconsin has a huge deficit.   And who cares if even the outgoing DEMOCRATIC governor said Wisconsin had a huge deficit?  

Talking Points Memo is ALWAYS right because it's so "progressive"!  And "progressives" can't be wrong!

[cinyc]

That argument is so tired and bloated.  You can easily go without paying taxes.  Just don't work or buy anything or own property!

The same could be said about the private sector.... where purchasing food from a grocery store is "voluntary"... but if you didn't do it.. like not working, owning property, or buying anything at all... would make life much harder.

So just because you get to choose which grocery store you go to... doesn't make it any more voluntary.

Yeah, it's so easy to dodge paying any taxes - I just have to not earn, buy or own anything.  I guess I could just die - but wait... there's a tax on that too.

I get to choose what groceries I want to buy at the store I want at the time I want.  Or I can choose to buy seeds and grow my own food.  I can choose which private actors to deal with.  I can't choose which federal taxes to pay, short of leaving the country or going to jail for not paying them.

[memphis]

That argument is so tired and bloated.  You can easily go without paying taxes.  Just don't work or buy anything or own property!

The same could be said about the private sector.... where purchasing food from a grocery store is "voluntary"... but if you didn't do it.. like not working, owning property, or buying anything at all... would make life much harder.

So just because you get to choose which grocery store you go to... doesn't make it any more voluntary.

Yeah, it's so easy to dodge paying any taxes - I just have to not earn, buy or own anything.  I guess I could just die - but wait... there's a tax on that too.

I get to choose what groceries I want to buy at the store I want at the time I want.  Or I can choose to buy seeds and grow my own food.  I can choose which private actors to deal with.  I can't choose which federal taxes to pay, short of leaving the country or going to jail for not paying them.

It's the GOP plan, cinyc. They've said as much. Starve the beast and whatnot.

[Sam Spade]

The protesters in Madison are of course heroes, and I hope that they inspire similar protests in other cities.

I hope it inspires the issuance of pink slips to them, myself. Different strokes for different folks.

As do I.

So why should these people be fired for making too much, SS?  You make more than them and are not fired.

They're public employees, lazy as sh!t and don't know anything.

Why thanx for making that assumption of me.

Be thankful he didn't call you f****ts.

Hard to call a woman that term.  Especially Texasgurl, who I've known on the forum for many years.  You, on the other hand...

I have a serious question for Texasgurl - what do you of the employees who lied and "called in sick" when they really went out to protest?  You see, in the real world, i.e. the private sector world, that's grounds for termination on its face.  Moreover, what does that tell us about the teachers - doesn't it say that they care more about themselves than the learning of their students?

As for the original comment, I'm sure you know I enjoy making blanket generalizations for amusement - not every public employee is lazy and knows nothing, maybe that's just NYC. 

And as for the larger public employee union issue, Torie is, as usual, 100% right on this sort of thing and I see no reason to extrapolate on his excellent thoughts.

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

Horrible People for blocking a good piece of legislation. The GOP agenda in these state is not extreme considering that they were elected to right the wrong of fiscal insanity that Wisconsion has had with the radical progressive agenda. So to say it, I'm for the employee but in times like this sacrifices must be made. Allow teachers to opt out of being in unions.   The right has made her sacrifices for a long time. Now the left must make many of their own.

[Insula Dei]

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A couple of things:

-How is the private sector any more 'real' than the public sector? Do you have to pay your managers millions in order to be real? I'd say that the Banking sector for example is Cloud Cuckoo Land more than anything.

-Teachers are the one segment of the population where a sense of citizenship should above all be present. Union activity, far from an evil conspiracy against millionaire bankers, is a citizen's way of defending his own position in society.

-This is about the future of education. Teachers might also be interested in, you know, getting a normal wage and a decent pension, but more importantly they're currently fighting to keep education in Wisconsin at a semi-decent level.

[krazen1211]

Worth pointing out that the same crap is playing out at the federal level. Except the deficit spending is producing so much interest that the entire nation's future is compromised. The GOP has literally destroyed the nation for a few decades of lower taxes on richers. Unbelieveable!

Kind of a curious theory, given how interest costs on debt was at historical lows in 2009 and only swells about 3 years from now...

[krazen1211]

you can probably merge this with the other thread.

Ummm... and what, exactly, does this have to do with "desperate teachers' unions force Madison schools to cancel classes"?

The discussion was picked up there.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Not fired for making too much money... fired for skipping out on their jobs.  Did you really need to resort to a strawman argument to attempt to prove a point?

They're striking, Inks.

Yes, and causing schools to have to shut down in the process.  So, they would be fired for not going to work, not because they make too much money.  Glad you realized the true reason for why they should be fired.

[Person Man]

All soldiers in the war against Corporatism.

[Franzl]

All soldiers in the war against Corporatism.

ugh....what?

[Person Man]

Well, unions are an important counter balance to the strength of corporations as an American institution, even if they are public unions whose employees are not corporations.  Corporatism is when the most powerful institution in society are the Corporations. Another word for it is "Socialism with Chinese Characteristics" (Where the state-run economy is operated vicariously through publically financed private corporations).