First Stirrings of Democracy in the Middle East

[Jake]

You post too many g articles.

I will agree with Karl Marx Jr. on this.  It has to stop.  Post the link, and maybe a brief overview or don't post it at all.

[Jake]

There are two sides to every news event:

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/washpost/20050309/ts_washpost/a16165_2005mar8

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050309/ts_nm/syria_dc_1

By the way, how is Syria's occupation of Lebanon any different from the American occupation of Iraq?

Yes, Hezbollah coerces 200K together for a rally for Syria. Now, what does Hezbollah get out of keeping Syria there?  Protection so they can lob Iranian rockets into Israel.

[Jake]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Wasn't Hitler democratically elected as well? As was Ariel Sharon for that matter, and so was Bush.

Democratically elected as the leader of a minority party who manipulated an old man into appointing him Chancellor. If that's Democracy, I'll go lie down.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

India and Pakistan are Democracies, yet they love to fight wars with one another; thier at 3 and counting.

Were they Democracies when they fought? True Democracies?

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Problem is Arab countries do not have this middle class that you speak of. They largely rely on feudalistic rule, with feudal landlords and peasants, sheikhs and clans, tribes and what not. With a few select elite families controlling the factors of production. The Middle Class is very small.

Notice he said "after the development". The middle class needs to "develop.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Was the US during the 1980s not a democratic system?

They supported what terror groups again?

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Many "elected" officials have killed thier own people.

Notice your quotes around elected. In a true democracy, the people would have the ability to remove that dictator

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Alright, I'll give you this one, but this largely doesn't apply to the Mid-east as Arabs have a different structure of society.

Actually, it obviously is already applying to the middle east. Democracy in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Palestine is spreading to Egypt, Lebanon, soon Syria, Saudi Arabia.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Don't these things go against the very fundamentals of conservatism?

Free Trade is an excellent thing. The freer the markets, the freer the people

You must be logged in to read this quote.

In the third world, they do.

Name a true, third world democracy.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

These bourgeois rights include the so-called institution of universal sufferage as well. That's what poor people deal with all over the third world, my neighborhood included.

One is reminded of what Frantz Fanon once said: freedom isn't given, it must be taken. If you let them give it to you, they will give it to you in their terms. Overtly oppress a people until they demand change, then give them a little bit of "negative liberty" (this is what Bush is talking about when he uses the word "freedom") once you've them economically and psychologically where you want them, and what happens? Nothing.

So you take power in a bloody coup, kill your rivals, hold rigged elections to give the poor the chance to "vote", and then kill them because you're a maniac. Sounds like the communist system in action thus far.

[Jake]

800,000 turn out for a pro-freedom rally in Lebanon.