Semi-Presidentialism in Atlasia

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Yes I would support the German model, provided like the German model we have two chambers.

I will never support any model that deprives the Regions of their equal say in legislative matters. Absent that, preservation of the regions as stated has to be caveated with a "for now".

I would also support a Presidential system with a unicameral chamber provided the unicameral chamber had equal representation between Regional and At-large members.

Likewise absent the two chambers, the Vice Presidency would need to be caveated with a "for now" as just like Nix did in 2014 you would nuke its primary job and just like happened then and happened prior to 2013 (when Duke and I first got the VP involved with chamber admin), the position would be wracked with inactivity and ever growing calls for its abolition.

I would rather separately elect the VP, rename it as (or just create a) President of Congress, then if you want to eliminate the VP (in the non-renaming scenario), I would be open to it even.


For Historical Perspective:
Both of the "for now" caveats represent the "exclusivist/reductionist rabbit hole". Shrink the game population wise>Consolidate (in this case congress)>Abolish the VP/GM/and possibly the regions at some point if the game keeps shrinking.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Well, here go my thoughts on this. This is definitely an interesting plan that I happen to oppose.

First of all, I am always very weary of any reform for the federal government that deviates too heavily from the RL United States model of government. At the end of the day, 95%+ of players are Americans and therefore keeping it relatable to them is a decent worry to me.

Secondly, there is already a region that has a semi-presidential system of government, that being Lincoln; which introduced it in early 2019 with the Philladelphia Plan. And it hasn't been the greatest experiment. I've actually been one of its strongest proponents but even I have to recognize it has several shortcomings, like having a much less powerful governor, having power be too divided between too many people ending up unable to do anything, some arcane procedures, etc.

The regions are the place to experiment with alternate systems of government; and sadly Lincoln's experiment in semi-presidentialism has been a relative failure. I do not want for the federal government what Lincoln has; and I say this as one of the people who supported the system and as the still sitting senator for the region.

In fact, this seems to even bring back the government vs opposition dynamics of Lincoln and modeled after said regional plan.

The only point of that reform I would agree with is the switch back to unicameralism, which would make legislative activity easier. I described a lot of possible ways for Atlasia to go back to unicameralism in this thread; but none of the options are ideal.

One of your compromise ideas was the best of the lot IIRC.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Glad we are throwing out ideas, at least. Would love to see some of the nay-sayers announce what they would rather do instead.

You see folks this is the classic thing that the radicals/reductionists/exclusivists do. They make a radical reform suggestion, seek to dominate the language of reform and then when you make an alternative proposal (like I did in my post) it gets discarded and you labeled as a "do nothing obstructionist" because 1) it is not their idea or 2) it doesn't achieve their ulterior motives (back then it was usually screwing the regions over).

They always have to be defined as the "reformers" and their opponents as "obstructionists". I have supported reform at every stage over the last 12 years. Reforms to strengthen the regions, reforms to make Congress work, reforms to improve the GM, reforms to improve the VP, etc etc, but for someone who is a reductionist at heart they would rather just eliminate these things then make them work.

Then eventually they seek cancel me because I can read between the lines have 1 2 5 7 12 years of experience with this and "know to much". Early 2015 must be seen in this context to get an accurate view of the situation. Its also why I was able to predict something like Bloody July before it happened.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Why the f**k should there be 4 regions?

Seems to be something popular on discord.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

At minimum you would need a hard legislative cap for four regions to be even remotely feasible from a political stand point.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Why the f**k should there be 4 regions?

Seems to be something popular on discord.

Well bring the discussion/reasoning here then.

You think I am in charge of this discussion? I noticed it glancing by Lokcord last night. Tim Turner was making crazy maps, looked like quite a wild party but I was about to collapse from exhaustion so I stayed clear.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Why the f**k should there be 4 regions?

Seems to be something popular on discord.

Well bring the discussion/reasoning here then.

You think I am in charge of this discussion? I noticed it glancing by Lokcord last night. Tim Turner was making crazy maps, looked like quite a wild party but I was about to collapse from exhaustion so I stayed clear.

Fair. Didn’t mean to come off as rude.

I am certainly in favor of onshoring discord discussion to Atlas wherever possible, but it is hard to resist the magnetic pull of real time discussion on these chat mediums.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Someone mentioned the Lincoln Philadelphia plan. I don't know how much this plan is like Lincoln government but we shouldn't go in that direction. In this proposal like in Lincoln I don't like the different class of people, there is a majority, they have more slots, the rest is the opposition. It focuses on partisanship, the goal is take control. I prefer a legislative body when people are more equal and not divided in groups. I find it's better for participation and enjoyment for all and better discussion. 

In the old days, Talleyrand, TNF, as well as all the other usual suspects, were very much all on board with this model for organizing the then unicameral Senate.

The argument they made was that it would make elections matter more, but in a game that more often then not tilts left, that is not exactly something that can be considered in isolation and the prospect of "perpetual" second class status would discourage participation and actually harm competitive elections because of that discouragement.