Trump bans transgenders from military service

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Other countries laugh at us for fighting over things like this. This is <1% of the population we're talking about here.

So what? 0.001% of our population died on 9/11 and it dominated our national discussion for years. <1% of the population matters.

That was an attack on civilians by terrorists, not government policy that affects a tiny minority of people.

So we shouldn't care that a minority is being discriminated against?

Apparently only the majorities, the so-called "regular people," matter.

See this is the problem though. Why we absolutely should accommodate transpeople in the military, there are people who are discomforted by it. They are soldiers too. Why can't their concerns for once be heard instead of being dismissed? There are far more of them than trans. Being trans doesn't make you special. You shouldn't get a medal for it. And it definitely shouldn't be grounds for a ban.

If that makes you uncomfortable, how could you possibly make a tough decision under fire?

How many transpeople are actually physically and mentally fit? Serious question. Is the ban justified overall? No, but this has more to do with the professional whiners than the professional soldiers it effects.

I'm positively astounded by the fact that you explicitly state you do not support this move, but can't bring yourself to criticize Trump, ever.

You think Rubio or Cruz wouldn't have done this?

Were Rubio and Cruz posting stuff like this:

No. They'd still be worse though.

[Person Man]

It's all politics Trump will try to reignite the culture wars in 18/20. Bush campaign did the same in 2004.

Probably this. This and an actual war was enough for Bush in 02/04.

Yes, let's dispel with the fiction Trump's Presidency is not a logical consequence of Dubya's Presidency.

He still hasn't tried to stop medical research or go after social security, though...those are serious issues but Trump otherwise has recontinued or intensified about 90-95% of W policies.

[Santander]

It's all politics Trump will try to reignite the culture wars in 18/20. Bush campaign did the same in 2004.

Probably this. This and an actual war was enough for Bush in 02/04.

Yes, let's dispel with the fiction Trump's Presidency is not a logical consequence of Dubya's Presidency.

He still hasn't tried to stop medical research or go after social security, though...those are serious issues but Trump otherwise has recontinued or intensified about 90-95% of W policies.

If you put it that way, Obama continued most of W's policies too. The federal government is like an oil tanker - it takes a long time to turn.

[kyc0705]

Other countries laugh at us for fighting over things like this. This is <1% of the population we're talking about here.

So what? 0.001% of our population died on 9/11 and it dominated our national discussion for years. <1% of the population matters.

That was an attack on civilians by terrorists, not government policy that affects a tiny minority of people.

So we shouldn't care that a minority is being discriminated against?

Apparently only the majorities, the so-called "regular people," matter.

See this is the problem though. Why we absolutely should accommodate transpeople in the military, there are people who are discomforted by it. They are soldiers too. Why can't their concerns for once be heard instead of being dismissed? There are far more of them than trans. Being trans doesn't make you special. You shouldn't get a medal for it. And it definitely shouldn't be grounds for a ban.

If that makes you uncomfortable, how could you possibly make a tough decision under fire?

How many transpeople are actually physically and mentally fit? Serious question. Is the ban justified overall? No, but this has more to do with the professional whiners than the professional soldiers it effects.

I'm positively astounded by the fact that you explicitly state you do not support this move, but can't bring yourself to criticize Trump, ever.

You think Rubio or Cruz wouldn't have done this?

Not only will you not criticize Trump, you seem reluctant to even bring the subject of it up for discussion.

I criticized the ban. What should I do, vote for Hillary because I sympathize with a few transpeople? Jesus lol.

Voting for someone doesn't mean you have to constantly, obsessively defend them.

[Santander]

Other countries laugh at us for fighting over things like this. This is <1% of the population we're talking about here.

So what? 0.001% of our population died on 9/11 and it dominated our national discussion for years. <1% of the population matters.

That was an attack on civilians by terrorists, not government policy that affects a tiny minority of people.

So we shouldn't care that a minority is being discriminated against?

Apparently only the majorities, the so-called "regular people," matter.

See this is the problem though. Why we absolutely should accommodate transpeople in the military, there are people who are discomforted by it. They are soldiers too. Why can't their concerns for once be heard instead of being dismissed? There are far more of them than trans. Being trans doesn't make you special. You shouldn't get a medal for it. And it definitely shouldn't be grounds for a ban.

If that makes you uncomfortable, how could you possibly make a tough decision under fire?

How many transpeople are actually physically and mentally fit? Serious question. Is the ban justified overall? No, but this has more to do with the professional whiners than the professional soldiers it effects.

I'm positively astounded by the fact that you explicitly state you do not support this move, but can't bring yourself to criticize Trump, ever.

You think Rubio or Cruz wouldn't have done this?

Not only will you not criticize Trump, you seem reluctant to even bring the subject of it up for discussion.

I criticized the ban. What should I do, vote for Hillary because I sympathize with a few transpeople? Jesus lol.

Voting for someone doesn't mean you have to constantly, obsessively defend them.

Disagreeing with someone doesn't mean you have to badger them over nothing.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

I'm guessing we're good for 10 pages? 

[Yank2133]

Only good thing here is this exposes that economic anxiety was pure bullsh**t. Any person who bought that line left or right, is a sucker.

[SoLongAtlas]

I'm guessing we're good for 10 pages? 

Haha yeah. Hey let's only do a requote of one or two replies to not take up so much space if you guys wouldn't mind.

Also keep it to a certain amount of civility so it doesn't get locked.

[Beet]

This won't hurt him. Politico interviewed a few people at Trump's Youngstown rally, and one of them was a woman who voted Democratic for 60 years, but is already ready to give Trump eight years, or "as long as it takes." People like this and the forty thousand boy scouts in West Virginia will give Trump all the political cover he needs to throw transgender people under the bus.

[ProudModerate2]

Does anyone know if we have any Atlas members who are part of the LBGT+ community, and who also voted for trump ?
Who are they ? (,,,, and what is their opinion on this ? I'm curious to hear/know their side on this issue.)

[Santander]

Does anyone know if we have any Atlas members who are part of the LBGT+ community, and who also voted for trump ?
Who are they ?

Many.

[The_Doctor]

this is a dumb executive order and will have a shelf life of until the next Democratic President is elected. It's designed to rile up the social conservatives.

[Hindsight was 2020]

A part of me has the disgusting feeling Trump will win on this like Bush did in '04 but another part of me is thinking that this is a bit of a harder sell then being against gay marriage was in '04

[SoLongAtlas]

Relevant

"The Williams Institute at the UCLA School of Law estimates there are more than 15,000 transgender troops in the US military. The RAND Corporation estimates there are 1,320 and 6,630 transgender personnel in the active service and between 830–4,160 in the selected reserve.

“The full implications of that tweet are to be determined. My read of it is that it appears that those currently serving transgender troops will be forced out,” Brad Carson, the Acting Under Secretary of Defense for Personnel and Readiness from 2015-16, who help craft the policy that ended the ban a year ago. “To have a tweet reverse a DoD personnel policy is unprecedented.”

The ACLU said it is considering a legal challenge to the ban."

https://www.buzzfeed.com/coralewis/trump-transgender-military-service?utm_term=.boNg81yRq#.uqWNo26rv

[SoLongAtlas]

A part of me has the disgusting feeling Trump will win on this like Bush did in '04 but another part of me is thinking that this is a bit of a harder sell then being against gay marriage was in '04

Honestly I think it will be an easier sell. Most ppl don't care about or support gay marriage now, even a plurality of the GOP. It would be an easier sell to politicize this issue esp with regard to its relation to the military. LBG (ok fine) T (those others) - the new GOP logic going fwd, even if it's disgusting logic.

Edit: I can already see the ads, "Warren (or whoever Dem) supports wasteful money on reassignment operations instead of more funding for our troops, vote (insert Trump) in November"

Same thing in 18 to gin up the culture warriors.

[All Along The Watchtower]

IIRC, General Mattis was the driving force behind this, no?  

He pushed back against an outright ban but helped to delay a decision on it. I'm assuming Trump in his tweet "with the generals" was the JCS and SecDef. Curious to see how that one was decided, split or unanimous.

Yeah I mean I'm not really behind this decision but I doubt Trump just decided on his own without both the JCS and Mattis supporting it.

A more likely culprit for driving force on this decision: the Vice President.

[JohnCA246]

A president incapable of doing anything but attacking people from twitter and occasionally speaking to supporters. What a person.

[Mike Thick]

Conversations I've had with IRL relatives about this are leading me to believe that many think transgender people only enlist to get medical care, because it's so expensive. Anecdotal, but perhaps insightful into the political calculus here...

[Gass3268]

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[Santander]

Conversations I've had with IRL relatives about this are leading me to believe that many think transgender people only enlist to get medical care, because it's so expensive. Anecdotal, but perhaps insightful into the political calculus here...

I doubt that, as they could get insurance with any job.

[SoLongAtlas]

Conversations I've had with IRL relatives about this are leading me to believe that many think transgender people only enlist to get medical care, because it's so expensive. Anecdotal, but perhaps insightful into the political calculus here...

I doubt that, as they could get insurance with any job.

Catch here is that any job has a ton of prereqs now (college for most, tech skills, etc.) The mil, esp on the enlisted side, so long as you aren't a criminal, smoke weed, shoot up, etc., you can get in.

Many consider the mil as a safer bet, esp those right out of HS.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

IIRC, General Mattis was the driving force behind this, no?  

He pushed back against an outright ban but helped to delay a decision on it. I'm assuming Trump in his tweet "with the generals" was the JCS and SecDef. Curious to see how that one was decided, split or unanimous.

Yeah I mean I'm not really behind this decision but I doubt Trump just decided on his own without both the JCS and Mattis supporting it.

A more likely culprit for driving force on this decision: the Vice President.

Neh, Pence would delight in a cool down period where nothing controversial happens for a month or so.  

[Mike Thick]

Conversations I've had with IRL relatives about this are leading me to believe that many think transgender people only enlist to get medical care, because it's so expensive. Anecdotal, but perhaps insightful into the political calculus here...

I doubt that, as they could get insurance with any job.

Many plans don't cover reassignment. Also, what VirginiaModerate said.

To be clear, I totally disagree -- just thought that it shows how some of the voters this is going to rile up think.

[Santander]

Conversations I've had with IRL relatives about this are leading me to believe that many think transgender people only enlist to get medical care, because it's so expensive. Anecdotal, but perhaps insightful into the political calculus here...

I doubt that, as they could get insurance with any job.

Many plans don't cover reassignment. Also, what VirginiaModerate said.

To be clear, I totally disagree -- just thought that it shows how some of the voters this is going to rule up think.

It certainly is an interesting viewpoint that I hadn't thought of.

[SoLongAtlas]

Conversations I've had with IRL relatives about this are leading me to believe that many think transgender people only enlist to get medical care, because it's so expensive. Anecdotal, but perhaps insightful into the political calculus here...

I doubt that, as they could get insurance with any job.

Many plans don't cover reassignment. Also, what VirginiaModerate said.

To be clear, I totally disagree -- just thought that it shows how some of the voters this is going to rule up think.

It certainly is an interesting viewpoint that I hadn't thought of.

Many folks enlist just for the medical care, esp those in poorer parts of the South and Appalachia. Usually the base will have an on-site medical and dental clinic, if not full on hospital. It's a VA style set up but smaller and for AD SMs. So yeah this would def be a thing, those wanting the reassignments and transition treatments would go there first, or the major hospitals near the base, like Balboa in SD, for example.