Senate Protest and Analysis Thread

[Ebowed]

Oh, I'm not talking about the Pacific Hive Mind

It's not like the Pacific Region is the only one to have unanimous votes.

See: Northeast Progressive Primary, Mideast Ballot Verification Amendment, etc, etc

[Јas]

I'm not sure removing the Regional Senators instead of the District Senators would be considered as much of an affront by the Regions. After all, many who voted against the Amendment appear to have done so because of concerns about the level of democracy offered by an STV system. The Regional Senators, representing Regions of widely varying population, are in that sense much less democratic than the District Senators.

Moreover, as the Regional Senators are primarily concerned with federal affairs, none of us has the time to devote to Regional activity--and nor do we have any more constitutional powers than the average citizens of the Regions. However small the power to redistrict is, it is more power vested in the Regions than the Regional Senators have in relation to their Regions specifically.

I don't know, maybe removing the Regional Senators would meet with greater opposition. It's at least worth hearing what those opposed have to say, as I doubt every single Nay voter opposes the theory of STV over FPTP.

For my own 2 cents, the region failed in the Pacific because of 1 very influential voter (in this regard I'd note that 2 Pacificans changed their votes from Aye to Nay during polling).

Changing the amendment from Regional to District Senators may actually work but it would actually mean taking away from Regional Rights, as opposed to taking away from Governor's busy-work which has recently been lauded as a "regional right".

Oh, I'm not talking about the Pacific Hive Mind, I'm talking about the voters who actually had a reason for voting Nay.

Well, in analysing the Nay voters I think one needs to consider the Pacific and Rest of Atlasia separately.

Nay voters outside the Pacific:
PolNut; Inks; Masterjedi; Tik; SPC; BRTD; Sam Spade; DWPerry; TCash; Dave Hawk; RonPaul08

Of those, Inks and SPC were the most vocal in their opposition based on their declared belief that it was an attack on regional rights. (I say declared belief because I'm not certain they themselves believe their own official argument here.) Of the Nay voters above, I think DWPerry and RonPaul08 would be most suceptable to a campaign by Inks/SPC.
Masterjedi is usually an anti-reform vote generally.
PolNut believes PR to be unsuitable for Atlasia.
Sam and Dave Hawk have declared themselves in agreement with the viewpoint of Keystone Phil and despite my attempts at rebuttal, that seems to be a fundamental point of disagreement.
I have no explanations for Tik; BRTD; and most crucially (given that winning his vote would have won the day) TCash.


Pacific Nay voters:
TexasGurl; Jesus; Everett; Rob; BrandonW; Alcon; CultureKing

I believe that Jesus (either actively or passively) was very influential in this region. I think had he voted in favour, the amendment would have passed at least 5-3 here. It is in this region that switching to abolish regional senators may prove more supportive as Jesus may be more inclined to approve whence re-districting is not threatened.

FTR, I don't subscribe to the view that the Pacific has a hive mind mentality. The region is more politically homogenous than most others but it has a number of members more than willing to take a stand alone.

[Verily]

I suppose "Hive Mind" is a bit ungracious, but arbitrary voting based on someone else's vote is clearly not a sign of a healthy political atmosphere.

[Sam Spade]

TCash and Ron Paul08 are former governors, lest we forget.  They may view the redistricting power as quite important.  DWPerry has a tendency to be nay-oriented and the support of Inks and SPC quite frankly will exert more influence than yours, with all due respect. 

[Jake]

I suppose "Hive Mind" is a bit ungracious, but arbitrary voting based on someone else's vote is clearly not a sign of a healthy political atmosphere.

"Hive Mind" is exactly correct however.

And I've always wondered whether Alcon is simply Jesus's attempt to return to the forum's good graces.

[bgwah]

I suppose "Hive Mind" is a bit ungracious, but arbitrary voting based on someone else's vote is clearly not a sign of a healthy political atmosphere.

You're confusing the Northeast Region with the Pacific Region.

[The Dowager Mod]

I voted first so who did i copy?

[Verily]

I voted first so who did i copy?

No specific individuals were mentioned.

[Sam Spade]

And I've always wondered whether Alcon is simply Jesus's attempt to return to the forum's good graces.

Jake speaks truth to power.

[bgwah]

And I've always wondered whether Alcon is simply Jesus's attempt to return to the forum's good graces.

Jake speaks truth to power.

You won't tell Dave, will you...?

[Sam Spade]

And I've always wondered whether Alcon is simply Jesus's attempt to return to the forum's good graces.

Jake speaks truth to power.

You won't tell Dave, will you...?

Dave and I don't exactly have a "personal relationship", if you know what I mean. 

[Peter]

For the record, I did designate Jesus as my successor as Supreme Overlord of the FEC when I decided to move on from the position.

[bgwah]

And I've always wondered whether Alcon is simply Jesus's attempt to return to the forum's good graces.

Jake speaks truth to power.

You won't tell Dave, will you...?

Dave and I don't exactly have a "personal relationship", if you know what I mean. 

So you're just phuck buddies?

[Sam Spade]

And I've always wondered whether Alcon is simply Jesus's attempt to return to the forum's good graces.

Jake speaks truth to power.

You won't tell Dave, will you...?

Dave and I don't exactly have a "personal relationship", if you know what I mean. 

So you're just phuck buddies?

Not any less than you and Alcon are. 

[DownWithTheLeft]

Just a suggestion/comment to Senator SoS:

How do you plan to fund NPR?

[Ebowed]

How do you plan to fund NPR?

Presumably through the National Endowment for the Humanities, which already receives federal funding.

[DownWithTheLeft]

How do you plan to fund NPR?

Presumably through the National Endowment for the Humanities, which already receives federal funding.

Would be the funding be sufficent?  If we are endowing money toward something why aren't we already using it up already?

[Speed of Sound]

In response to DWTL:

Expect every bill I make that has anything to do with money at all to completely disregard numbers, as a message to the uselessness money issues have become of the lack of action on revising/removing the budget. It is to remind us that under this system, trillions of dollars can be shifted without any effect on the game at all.

[afleitch]

In response to DWTL:

Expect every bill I make that has anything to do with money at all to completely disregard numbers, as a message to the uselessness money issues have become of the lack of action on revising/removing the budget. It is to remind us that under this system, trillions of dollars can be shifted without any effect on the game at all.

^^^^^^^

A point I was making at the time and that I agree with

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

In response to DWTL:

Expect every bill I make that has anything to do with money at all to completely disregard numbers, as a message to the uselessness money issues have become of the lack of action on revising/removing the budget. It is to remind us that under this system, trillions of dollars can be shifted without any effect on the game at all.

And even without a budget, expect me to vote against every single bill that deals with monetary issues without a price tag.

[DownWithTheLeft]

In response to DWTL:

Expect every bill I make that has anything to do with money at all to completely disregard numbers, as a message to the uselessness money issues have become of the lack of action on revising/removing the budget. It is to remind us that under this system, trillions of dollars can be shifted without any effect on the game at all.

Don't take it as a criticism, however, I expect this may become a problem on the senate.  As we saw with the Legalization of LSD Bill (and others of course) determining where money comes from and where it goes creates a problem

[Speed of Sound]

If the senate wont make itself take on this issue, Im going to continue to push this. The senate must be responsible and wrangle this embarrassment, and I will fight for it until I am drug out of office.

[Verily]

If the senate wont make itself take on this issue, Im going to continue to push this. The senate must be responsible and wrangle this embarrassment, and I will fight for it until I am drug out of office.

The proper term would be "dragged"

And I've come around to agreeing with you. I think we can debate whether a bill is a frivolous cost without actually ascribing a price tag to everything. It just takes judiciousness on the part of the Senators.

[Speed of Sound]

If the senate wont make itself take on this issue, Im going to continue to push this. The senate must be responsible and wrangle this embarrassment, and I will fight for it until I am drug out of office.

The proper term would be "dragged"

And I've come around to agreeing with you. I think we can debate whether a bill is a frivolous cost without actually ascribing a price tag to everything. It just takes judiciousness on the part of the Senators.

Well, I suppose that is a fair deal, and Grammar Nazi.

I am not opposed to having prices add later, but Im not gonna get piky, since there arent numbers to get picky with since we have no idea where our budget or currency are.

[Peter]

For the event that redistricting drags on and on, could a Senator please put this on the legislation introduction thread as a potential stop-gap measure.

Second November-December Act
7 December, 2007 is hereby renamed 31 November, 2007.
In effect this means that the first Friday in December is the 14th instead of the 7th, thus delaying elections until the 21st. I cite the precedent of last years November-December Act.