COVID-19 Megathread 5: The Trumps catch COVID-19

[DabbingSanta]

Brian Kemp is not an evil man. He is doing this because he fears the long term socioeconomic consequences of being on lockdown for several months. Whether this is the right decision or not remains to be seen.

[DabbingSanta]

It's not that old people are worth less than young people, they are just more susceptible to dying. Is it really worth it trying to shut down society to "save them" when they are at the end of their lifespan anyway? My 93 year old grandmother passed last year, and she was a great lady. Good quality life until the last few weeks. She died of something easily preventable, but it was missed during much of her hospital stay. By the time we had an idea what was wrong many of her organs were failing. I was upset about this at her death bed, upset at how the health system seemingly failed her. She told me it was ok and that she had lived a long life anyway. She didn't hold any malice towards anyone, and she passed six hours later. Maybe I've strayed a little off topic but I think this is important. Death is a part of life and we can't destroy society trying to prolong the inevitable for the chronically ill and elderly. It might sound heartless to us but when you are in their boat I think the mindset changes.

[DabbingSanta]

It's not that old people are worth less than young people, they are just more susceptible to dying. Is it really worth it trying to shut down society to "save them" when they are at the end of their lifespan anyway? My 93 year old grandmother passed last year, and she was a great lady. Good quality life until the last few weeks. She died of something easily preventable, but it was missed during much of her hospital stay. By the time we had an idea what was wrong many of her organs were failing. I was upset about this at her death bed, upset at how the health system seemingly failed her. She told me it was ok and that she had lived a long life anyway. She didn't hold any malice towards anyone, and she passed six hours later. Maybe I've strayed a little off topic but I think this is important. Death is a part of life and we can't destroy society trying to prolong the inevitable for the chronically ill and elderly. It might sound heartless to us but when you are in their boat I think the mindset changes.

Do tell us where you'd draw the line.

I don't know. I don't want to play God, I think that's up to Him. I believe we can fight this disease with reasonable measures without going overboard.

[DabbingSanta]

It's not that old people are worth less than young people, they are just more susceptible to dying. Is it really worth it trying to shut down society to "save them" when they are at the end of their lifespan anyway? My 93 year old grandmother passed last year, and she was a great lady. Good quality life until the last few weeks. She died of something easily preventable, but it was missed during much of her hospital stay. By the time we had an idea what was wrong many of her organs were failing. I was upset about this at her death bed, upset at how the health system seemingly failed her. She told me it was ok and that she had lived a long life anyway. She didn't hold any malice towards anyone, and she passed six hours later. Maybe I've strayed a little off topic but I think this is important. Death is a part of life and we can't destroy society trying to prolong the inevitable for the chronically ill and elderly. It might sound heartless to us but when you are in their boat I think the mindset changes.

Do tell us where you'd draw the line.

I don't know. I don't want to play God, I think that's up to Him. I believe we can fight this disease with reasonable measures without going overboard.

That's what I meant.  What do you consider reasonable measures beyond which we shouldn't go?

I think large gatherings, concerts, schools, and the like should remain closed through the summer. Small business settings should be allowed to operate as long as they are following social distancing rules. Large office like settings should be work from home until we see an 80 to 90% reduction from peak. Restaurants should be open but take out and drive thru only. Unconstitutional travel bans and stay at home orders should be lifted. Parks should be partially open - keep playgrounds and sports fields closed but allow people to park and walk outside.

[DabbingSanta]

Today is turning out to be the deadliest day of the pandemic so far in the U.S at 2,800 deaths

 This would mean that the projected peak of April 15th was wrong. I am less optimistic this week from what I've seen than I was last week.

Deaths typically occur two weeks after infection, so I think these numbers would be reflecting new cases from April 7th.

[DabbingSanta]

Please please please do not inject bleach or other cleaning products. Don't ingest them either. I've been busy at work and honestly thought this was just a twitter rumor. Trump says the darndest things.

[DabbingSanta]

In some ways I hope Joe Biden gets elected. It will fix the Republican party and we will have a way stronger and less insane candidate in 2024. My only qualm about the Democrats getting in is that it might reinforce their authoritarian response to the pandemic. A republican Senate with Biden as president may be the best (and most likely) outcome.

[DabbingSanta]

Looking at the responses to the WI supreme Court decision on Twitter really has me thinking. The left is so out of touch these days, it is unbelievable.  They are appealing to emotions and flat out accusing conservatives of murder without thinking of the true consequences of keeping these lockdowns in place. The death models overestimated this, which is good, and we need to open up, badly, ASAP. The economic toll this will have for the next decade is already immense. The authoritarian precedent this sets is also really bad. But you look at which party is advocating for what and maybe you start to see who is for freedom and who is for tyranny.

[DabbingSanta]

It's time.

Two months is enough.

The lockdown was supposed to end after the U.S. peaked. Most areas peaked one to five weeks ago. Glad there is some bipartisan agreement. 👍

[DabbingSanta]

Looking at the responses to the WI supreme Court decision on Twitter really has me thinking. The left is so out of touch these days, it is unbelievable.  They are appealing to emotions and flat out accusing conservatives of murder without thinking of the true consequences of keeping these lockdowns in place. The death models overestimated this, which is good, and we need to open up, badly, ASAP. The economic toll this will have for the next decade is already immense. The authoritarian precedent this sets is also really bad. But you look at which party is advocating for what and maybe you start to see who is for freedom and who is for tyranny.

Yes, really, because Twitter is representative of the population at large. 🙄

No, I agree with you there. Most Democrats are not insane. The people who feel a need to share their opinion on Twitter usually have an agenda. It just feels really gross that Americans are advocating against their freedoms. Did their grandparents really fight for this?  

[DabbingSanta]

A few days ago, I found the "LockdownSkepticism" group on Reddit. It's proof that people across the political spectrum can get along for a common cause. The rank-and-file right is learning that we don't have horns and cloven hooves like their leaders told them we did. We've all got each other's backs in fighting this.

Thank you, this is an awesome find.

[DabbingSanta]

A few days ago, I found the "LockdownSkepticism" group on Reddit. It's proof that people across the political spectrum can get along for a common cause. The rank-and-file right is learning that we don't have horns and cloven hooves like their leaders told them we did. We've all got each other's backs in fighting this.

I'm glad that you found a place where your ignorance can be validated.

Oh yes, we're the ones that have our heads up our asses. Thanks for letting us know 😊

[DabbingSanta]

I'm very encouraged to start seeing a semblance of normality resume in the Jackson suburbs.  Crowded streets/shops, restaurants seem relatively busy (still at 50% though), and less people choosing to wear face masks.

...

I genuinely cannot fathom what line of tortured reasoning brings one to the conclusion that this is something to be *encouraged by*

This is how virus-truthers feel across the country. They are scared to acknowledge the truth so they stay buried under the sand in with fictitious beliefs that everything is normal and always will be. Basically a form of denial to cope with tough situations.
It’s truly an enviable way of thinking, to be able to be so willfully ignorant for your own happiness.

Please don't generalize all of us. I have been wearing PPE including masks at grocery stores and work because I have a history of health problems including asthma, and I recommend everyone wear them while there's still significant activity in your area. We have had over 500 cases in my county including 45 deaths, and some of these have been community spread. At least half, however, have been in nursing homes and care facilities. Why imprison the general population to their homes when more direct and focused measures will do more good? As long as we keep all large gatherings (like sporting events, theaters, etc) cancelled for the foreseeable future and encourage social distancing I think we can still go on with our lives.

[DabbingSanta]

Huge spikes in Florida and Texas, but death count remains low. Will this go up to record levels in two weeks, or is this "spike" partially a result of increased testing? Obvious that reopening entirely is not working but freedom is imperative.

[DabbingSanta]

These past few months have definitely changed my perspective on things. You got a fair number of people advocating for economic destruction, erosion of civil liberties, and downright anarchy and it's become totally normalized by the MSM. I should note that these people may not realize that's what they are advocating for, either. They may be otherwise totally normal and rational people. Hell, it's totally rational to want to shut down society if you believe the narrative and think this bug is the new Black Death. What the media is keeping quiet from you is that the actual estimated death rate (by the CDC) has been revised down to 0.3%, not the 2-3% originally reported. And given the huge number of reported cases, it's very possible a significant number of us have already had coronavirus and did not even know about it.

Call me a quack all you want, but what would you think if you were reading your own posts from now at this time last year? I don't buy that whole "new normal" BS. We have survived world wars, depressions, other pandemics, terrorism, racial violence, and more. The vast majority of us will survive this and society will recover and learn better ways to prevent the spread of disease.

I know one person who tested positive and four others who had symptoms. It's definitely a bad illness and you don't want to get it, but it is so established now in our communities that we need to sit back and let it take its course. We can't just hide in our homes forever. My advice is simple. Keep your distance, wash your hands, wear a mask if it makes you feel better, and move on. I have asthma and I'm not taking my chances, but I'm not going to go around and advocate for the government to intrude in our lives. This thing needs to play out and take its course. If you are young and healthy, you don't have much to worry about. The big concern is avoiding it so you don't spread it to more vulnerable populations in your social circle.

Source on the CDC thing: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/06/05/fact-check-cdc-estimates-covid-19-death-rate-0-26/5269331002/

[DabbingSanta]

July 28th update. We have seen a large increase in deaths in the South in the last couple weeks, with Mississippi now surpassing 50 deaths per 100,000 people.  Some rural counties in the south have reported extreme rates of infection. In Lee County, AR, 1 in 10 people living in the county have tested positive. Interesting to see how isolated areas have largely avoided the ravages of the virus — for example, I can imagine if transmission was widespread in Alaska the results would be devastating, especially in the Indigenous communities.

[DabbingSanta]

78% of COVID-19 patients show signs of heart damage after recovery

We still don't know the true ravages of the virus, but if this proves accurate it may greatly impact life expectancy in the U.S. and worldwide through 2040. Let's say 50% of the population gets the virus, and 78% of those people sustain heart problems — that's over 100 million people in the States alone. There's no doubt in my mind we will start seeing a significant number of people die in the next few years, along with an extremely overwhelmed health care system.

[DabbingSanta]

...Excuse me, weren’t you the one downplaying this virus a month or so ago and saying America needs to open up?
Maybe I got my avatars mixed up, but if true, do you think it was worth it?

Here's what I said:

Brian Kemp is not an evil man. He is doing this because he fears the long term socioeconomic consequences of being on lockdown for several months. Whether this is the right decision or not remains to be seen.

It turns out opening while cases were still on the rise appears to have been a very bad idea. With that being said, it's interesting to see how Sweden has seen near record low cases this past week while other nearby European countries have seen a resurgence. Is letting the virus work through the population the way to go? I think it depends on who you ask. I will be interested to see which states get hit hard if or when the second wave sweeps through. Will Michigan and New York, states that implemented harsh lockdowns, get it worse? Will the South, which is going through it now, skip the worst impacts of the second wave? The answers remain to be seen... 

[DabbingSanta]

Active cases as of July 29th. This is a much better map to look at than the total number of confirmed cases by state, as many of these cases are months old and long resolved. This map also really highlights the outbreaks ongoing in Arizona, California, Florida, Georgia, and Texas, where I expect the death count will increase in the new few weeks.