$250,000 a year isn't rich!

[Torie]

No, I didn't say that. I am a mere conduit. This guy said it (the gentleman's name appears in the fourth paragraph of the article). And he apparently is speaking for his caucus! Obama, pick up the red telephone please.

You have just got to love it all - yes you do. We want it all, we want it now, and Warren Buffet and the Chinese (we are going to really show them who's boss!), and going to balance the books all by themselves!  We can just keep collecting all the goodies in the meantime. What me worry?  

Probably the "fairest" thing is to just give a special lower rate for the Big Apple don't you think?  

[Torie]

This is all the sound and fury that this thread has generated so far?  Surely we can do better than this guys.  I am just so disappointed.

Did everyone enjoy the Obama press conference by the way?  How is the millionaires tax (now that it is that, and Obama is using that number because the Senate Dem b-slapped him), going to pay for slashing the payroll tax by 3% again?  His numbers add up about as well as Cain's.  His regression analysis rather than a straight line appears however to be more in the nature of a random walk.  One would have to hire Muon2 to process it however because it is not only beyond my capacity, but even excel's!

And then that precious little bridge in Maine that is falling apart. What the F is Maine doing with its money? Where are all the gas taxes going these days that are supposed to fund this sort of thing?
Yes, I know, they are being looted. That was a rhetorical question.

And thanks Sbane for including me in the Big Apple special discount rate. Now I can buy even better and more bud, and go to Thailand to get laid more often. Fantastic!  

[Torie]

...We want it all

What is this?  A scrap of bread and a roof over the head?  Seriously Torie, try to exercise better taste in future.

Opebo, you are in charge of the "good/better taste" department. I gave that up when I started taking my testosterone shots. Surely you knew that. I may have to discount your IQ down from 131 closer to the number Gustaf gave you.

[Torie]

And thanks Sbane for including me in the Big Apple special discount rate. Now I can buy even better and more bud, and go to Thailand to get laid more often. Fantastic! 

I thought you didn't earn that much anymore. Maybe I need to reconsider. No more Thailand trips for you!!!

Well maybe I will work a bit more with a nice little tax cut. Supply side baby! 

[Torie]

And thanks Sbane for including me in the Big Apple special discount rate. Now I can buy even better and more bud, and go to Thailand to get laid more often. Fantastic! 

I thought you didn't earn that much anymore. Maybe I need to reconsider. No more Thailand trips for you!!!

And is bud really that expensive? Chump change isn't it?

Oh, and look for the trichomes, not the name. I might have mislead you earlier.

Trichomes?  I have not idea what that is, but it sounds promising!  I spend a lot of money on bud, but yes, that was also just a little rhetorical flourish. Cheers!

[Torie]

Yup, don't visit dispensaries without a magnifying glass! Trichomes are everything. Everything else is just evil, capitalist branding.

Or just eat it. I know the place with the best cookies.

Oh that is the white stuff that looks like coke, right?  Yes, everything I buy looks like a winter snow storm just blew through.  Of course!

[Torie]

Someone on $250,000 a year is certainly rich. Median household income in the U.S is about $50,000. Just for context, you know.

You do know that Wall Street makes more political contributions to Dems than Pubbies don't you?  This ain't Britain!  Who knew?

[Torie]

Smoking>eating

Haha the three of us could have a fun sesh

Smoking hash > smoking bud > eating (the body high is way too intense)

As for the title, it's true. Making 250 k a year does not make you rich, it makes you upper middle class. That doesn't mean that taxes shouldn't be raised on their bracket though, they could easily afford to be "soaked" and haven't been hit very hard by the recession.

Hash is too much for me. I like walking.

Pathetic.  I can work out for two hours! 

[Torie]

Someone on $250,000 a year is certainly rich. Median household income in the U.S is about $50,000. Just for context, you know.

You do know that Wall Street makes more political contributions to Dems than Pubbies don't you?  This ain't Britain!  Who knew?

Oh, I know all that. It just seemed that some... er... facts... would help to cast a little more light, around. You know.

Ah yes, facts are stubborn things. You're stealing my lines now, you purloiner you!

[Torie]

Ah yes, facts are stubborn things.

As both Lukács and Reagan argued, they are actually stupid things.

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What are you going to do about it? Sue me?

Well since the loser does not pay the winner's attorney's fees in the former colonies ... 

[Torie]

So you don't think people already go where the jobs are? So if one wants to do a job that is in the Bay Area, and not get screwed, too bad for them, huh?

Well the job will go unfilled if no applicants want to work for the wage offered and live in San Fran.  When that happens either the wage will go up or the company will move.  As more companies relocate their staff there will be less demand for housing, food, gas, etc and prices will come down.

People that live in NYC and San Fran are a special interest.  Our tax code has already been wrecked by special interests why start catering to more?

Well I sort of like the idea of getting a tax cut when I move into a really chic neighborhood myself. Deal with it! Life is just so beautiful. I  can't stand it! 

[Torie]

Collin County, Texas!  I'd rather live in hell right next door to my pal Mark Twain!

By the way, I really love sbane's ideas. You see, the litigation potential is just so awesome. It's even better than a tax cut - yes it is.  Yummy.

[Torie]

What is so terrible about "yummy?" Pray tell, how have I sinned -  the better so that I shall sin no more?

[Torie]

Collin County, Texas!  I'd rather live in hell right next door to my pal Mark Twain!

By the way, I really love sbane's ideas. You see, the litigation potential is just so awesome. It's even better than a tax cut - yes it is.  Yummy.

Oh god, please don't let that become a staple of your vocabulary like "puppy" and "pubbie".

It's Pubbie - and don't you like cute little baby dogs that poop on your carpet?  Are you human?

[Torie]

In the boom, Hispanics were buying 700K box homes of 1500 square feet in the most problematical of neighborhoods fueled by all those subprime loans, in the great OC. The ending was not a  happy one. 

[Torie]

It would be nice if income taxes factored in cost of living.  The guy making 50k in Alabama paying the same rate as the guy in NYC is just not fair.

That is such an Atlas post that it makes me sick.

What?

I think he is hinting at what I posted at the same time. You don't get a tax break for choosing to live somewhere with a high demand for housing and necessities.

Yes it's been fun. I was amazed that my initial throw away joke about a Big Apple discount to kick Chuck a bit where it might hurt, got such real traction. But once the ball got rolling, it was just such a blast to ride!  

[Torie]

It is perfectly fair. Now we are going to subsidize those in desirable living locations? CoL is demand based. You guys are a trip.

I was thinking this too. The 'tax cut' is akin to a subsidy and would create a positive feedback loop increasing demand and increasing COL.... which would result in decreasing tax rates....

Until the rates hit zero, and it would stop.   Well assuming high neighborhoods don't then qualify for the income tax credit.

[Torie]

Prop 13 is a truly evil idea that has enriched me immensely.

My property tax rate that I pay on a triplex that I bought in 1979?  It's about 0.25% of market value ($2,362/$950,000).  The rate for the next guy to buy it is about 1.15%.  So I get about an 80% discount - year after year - forever.  Heck the discount up to the first million dollars of value can be passed on to your heirs! So "forever" does not contain too much hyperbole in it; no it doesn't. 

That's but one property, albeit the most extreme.  When I made this comment at a GOP meeting last year, everybody thought I was a Marxist by the way. The anger was palpable.  The moral of the story?  Greed all too often trumps conscience, and most don't even want the issue broached. It's just so rude! Who knew?  

Does anyone want to defend this?  

I won't list a host of other problems beyond the one of equity. I don't want to risk the tl/dr thing. 

[Torie]

Wouldn't it be nice anvi if we could discipline ourselves to spend the more money more wisely concomitantly with a more robust revenue stream? You know, like actually getting to be able to actually read those hordes of inner city kids (and a lot of somewhat more upscale kids who really can't manage to put together a coherent sentence except when they get lucky) on whom we spend about 10K a head on now?  That won't in all probability be happening - either.

[Torie]

The reason they cannot read Torie, is because of the privilege of the rich.

The rich have some plot to saddle the kids with union protected un-cannable incompetent teachers who got a C average in third rate former teaching colleges and worse?

[Torie]

The reason they cannot read Torie, is because of the privilege of the rich.

The rich have some plot to saddle the kids with union protected un-cannable incompetent teachers who got a C average in third rate former teaching colleges and worse?

Do you imagine that a) such supposedly poor teachers could make privileged children 'learn less', or b) that genius teachers could somehow wrest the children of the poor from their class-ignorance?

The fact is, Tory, that blaming the teacher for children being thus-and-so is like blaming the plumber for a case of diarrhee.

It's "Torie." You need to study up more opebo, a lot more, on the education industry. JMO.

[Torie]

Prop 13 is a truly evil idea that has enriched me immensely.

My property tax rate that I pay on a triplex that I bought in 1979?  It's about 0.25% of market value ($2,362/$950,000).  The rate for the next guy to buy it is about 1.15%.  So I get about an 80% discount - year after year - forever.  Heck the discount up to the first million dollars of value can be passed on to your heirs! So "forever" does not contain too much hyperbole in it; no it doesn't. 

That's but one property, albeit the most extreme.  When I made this comment at a GOP meeting last year, everybody thought I was a Marxist by the way. The anger was palpable.  The moral of the story?  Greed all too often trumps conscience, and most don't even want the issue broached. It's just so rude! Who knew?  

Does anyone want to defend this?  

I won't list a host of other problems beyond the one of equity. I don't want to risk the tl/dr thing. 

Yes, Prop. 13 is pretty horrible. It benefits long term homeowners and corporations at the expense of new homeowners and companies. Why should a new homeowner paying much more for their house also have to pay higher property taxes? It's blatantly unfair. If you inherit why should you pay lower taxes than someone who actually earned the money for their house? Prop. 13 has certainly contributed immensely to unaffordable housing in California. With low taxes, existing homeowners are less likely to sell. With property taxes being a much less significant source of revenue than sales tax, cities much prefer retail businesses over housing.

Yes, I am not selling anything - ever. That is one of the problems. Fraud is another. Folks dump stuff in trusts, and don't bother to tell anyone when the trustee croaks, and some new set of beneficiaries are getting the money. It just goes on and on and on.  The suck list is just immense!

[Torie]

The reason they cannot read Torie, is because of the privilege of the rich.

The rich have some plot to saddle the kids with union protected un-cannable incompetent teachers who got a C average in third rate former teaching colleges and worse?

I was actually thinking that educational level was closely tied to socioeconomic status of the community, that kids who are poor and have poorly educated parents are far more likely to be low-performing in public schools than kids from stable, middle-or-upper class families in more affluent neighborhoods , and that solving this problem would result in a more equitable distribution of wealth, which the rich don't want, obviously....

But your theory sounds much more plausible.

Sure poor kids start off with a handicap, which is why they need the best and most charismatic teachers, hired and fired on merit, who make very high salaries. My cousin runs Sesame Street. She tells me that at age 5, the vocabulary of an upper middle class kid is about 10 times as large (or something like that) as some poor kid whose parents are not educated. So you can see the problem right off the bat. Heck I was reading by the time I showed up to school (no I did not read and understand words like "purloin" and the like at 5, but I was on my way ). 

[Torie]

Ya, ya, ya, but what you really need are very good and talented teachers. There is a huge data base supporting what I am saying. The rest is noise - including class size. Yes, it would be nice if we could transform these lower class families or broken families, and make them whole with middle class values, but we have been trying for decades, and throwing trillions of dollars at it, and mostly what we have managed to do, is make successful working class families move up a notch or two, and so on. But lifting the bottom is tough. This one fix is the laser beam approach that will get you by far the most bang for the buck. Trust me. This issue was a major hobby of mine for about a decade, and I read almost everything there was to read on the topic, and gave speeches on it.

There is an art to excellent teaching by the way (beyond knowing the material, which is of course a given, and all too often absent). I can elaborate on that a bit if you would like. I would make a very good teacher these days btw. Yes I would. 

[Torie]

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Well you actually got rather close to the truth on something here opebo. Well done!