Do you support mandatory spousal consent for abortions?

[dazzleman]

A child comes from both a mother and a father.  Fathers should have equal rights, as well as equal responsibilities.

This is possible, of course, only in stable marriages.  That should be the ideal.

In the real world, all sorts of things get screwed up.  But I think we should stop pretending that child-bearing and child-rearing arrangements outside of stable marriages are just as good as those within stable marriages.

[dazzleman]

A child comes from both a mother and a father.  Fathers should have equal rights, as well as equal responsibilities.

This is possible, of course, only in stable marriages.  That should be the ideal.

In the real world, all sorts of things get screwed up.  But I think we should stop pretending that child-bearing and child-rearing arrangements outside of stable marriages are just as good as those within stable marriages.

So your answer is...

Hah, honestly, this is one of the few issues about which I am highly ambivalent.  I could arrive at either answer, depending upon the angle from which I look at it.

I think we need to change the paradigm around which we think of these issues, and that was more my point.  The actual yes or no answer concerns me less than the context with which society views these situations.

[dazzleman]

This person has no control over your body. What is this? The 1700s?

This is exactly what I mean when I say we need to change the paradigm around which we look at this issue.

I think that if you allow somebody to impregnate you and create a new life inside your body, you have effectively given up some degree of control over your body in that process.

I think that's just a biological fact, and all the feminazi marches in the world can't change that.

I'd also say that it's ideologically unacceptable to me to take a position that says a father has full responsibility to raise and support his child, while denying him any say over whether that child can be born.  I think that position is fundamentally unjust and discriminatory against men.

This issue is really about who pays the price when people who are supposed to make responsible choices fail to do so.  The whole 'rights' bullsh**t that the feminists put out is just a red herring.

Looked at in that broader context of responsibility and the bests interest of all parties, including the unborn child, unrestricted abortion may still be the best option, but if it is, that is for a totally different reason, one that would be a damning indictment of the adults involved.

In any case, feminism can't change biology, try as it might.

[dazzleman]

No.

I'd also say that it's ideologically unacceptable to me to take a position that says a father has full responsibility to raise and support his child, while denying him any say over whether that child can be born.  I think that position is fundamentally unjust and discriminatory against men.

Would you seriously advocate giving husbands a sort of "veto" power over a woman who chooses to continue with her pregnancy?

It's an issue that needs to be explored.  Some people have advocated absolving men of legal responsibility for children they want aborted, but which the mother won't abort.  I can't say I'm prepared to support this.

But at the same time, what if a man is ready and willing to raise HIS child?  Should the mother be able to kill his child?  I think I mentioned earlier that perhaps if the father is willing to accept full responsibility for the child, the mother could be prevented from having an abortion.  I don't see how this is different from not allowing a woman to be forced into an abortion by the baby's father, unless you don't think that men deserve equal status as parents.

I can tell you one thing; if my wife ever had an abortion without my consent, she'd be my ex-wife very quickly.

You're really saying that fathers should have all the responsibilities, but none of the rights, of parenthood.  I just can't agree with this.

I realize that often, the man in this type of situation is scum.  Often, the woman is too.   Practically speaking, many of these kids are better off being aborted than being born to these awful people, who have exhibited not a shred of responsibility, but just think about their own selfish needs and scream about their 'rights' in shrill tones.  It's not an easy issue.  But I do know that the status quo is unacceptable.

[dazzleman]

This person has no control over your body. What is this? The 1700s?

This is exactly what I mean when I say we need to change the paradigm around which we look at this issue.

I think that if you allow somebody to impregnate you and create a new life inside your body, you have effectively given up some degree of control over your body in that process.

I think that's just a biological fact, and all the feminazi marches in the world can't change that.

I'd also say that it's ideologically unacceptable to me to take a position that says a father has full responsibility to raise and support his child, while denying him any say over whether that child can be born.  I think that position is fundamentally unjust and discriminatory against men.

This issue is really about who pays the price when people who are supposed to make responsible choices fail to do so.  The whole 'rights' bullsh**t that the feminists put out is just a red herring.

Looked at in that broader context of responsibility and the bests interest of all parties, including the unborn child, unrestricted abortion may still be the best option, but if it is, that is for a totally different reason, one that would be a damning indictment of the adults involved.

In any case, feminism can't change biology, try as it might.

Wow!  Well said! 

Thanks man. 

It's good to see a guy who doesn't feel obliged to buy into politically correct feminist bulls*%t as a penance for the thousands of years that we have oppressed women (yes, I know how oppressive it is to show at Bloomingdale's while your husband is working ). 

And from Massachusetts, no less.  There's hope for our little corner of the world after all.