The Sage Garden

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Though how funny is that sort of 'irony' from a White American, I wonder.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Like wading through treacle, except that at least treacle tastes nice:

@Simfan34 and BRTD:

This is why I suggest that most rather than all blame go to commanding figures. Folks carrying out policies at the ground level still have some moral culpability and some are probably horrible folks. But let's think this through a bit.

Even in your more extreme example what alternative does a pawn on the chessboard have but to hold their ground or march? The stubborn idealist may be willing to ruin their career, be jailed, tortured, killed, or otherwise punished to make a point of abstaining from participation in a horrific act. There are some folk willing to risk everything to abandon their duties in hopes of escaping. But when push comes to shove a soldier or agent is often selfish and submits to being reduced to representing part of a machine - a part that must either function as desired by superiors or discarded as faulty. It becomes a matter of either saving oneself or others. And even if the latter is ones preferred path, what if there are people (e.g. friends, relatives) who need them back home? How would they be affected if one were gone, or if the regime in power threatens them for leverage? I will admit we are all free to some extent, yet the people at the tip of the state's spear are often in poor positions to get everything they want.

Moreover, as parts of the aforementioned machine my (perhaps mistaken) understanding is they are conditioned to react decisively, unquestioningly, and even violently in certain scenarios without dwelling on moral dilemmas. The soldier fires as if by reflex because hesitation recklessly allows the Enemy windows of opportunity to deliver a killing blow to oneself or a comrade. Assertive dissent - especially in the presence of associates - destabilizes hierarchies needed for groups to reliably work well under adverse conditions. For the field agent, perhaps failure will affect the outcome of larger conflicts and the well-beings of many people beyond their own narrow scope of vision while carrying out missions. Who knows?

A corporatist logic is at work, you see. Every person has a specialized purpose, every order has its justifications, and for the Cause to advance everyone needs to work as if a cell in the body of a mighty, single-minded superorganism. Mix in propaganda and a lack of advanced comprehension of either international relations or politics and what you get a fair amount of the time is service-oriented workers who feel they make the world a better place - if even through morally complex, controversial means - and that enemies are dangerous and/or evil enough to deserve being cheated or harmed.

All of that, of course, is aside from what I strongly suspect is the fact that lots of armed public servants in the military and groups like the CIA put their lives on the line without personally getting involved in any shady business. Employment by the CIA for example is not by default a HP stamp on ones character. Judge folks on an individual rather than collective basis, eh? Likewise could be said of many of those who were called into service long ago for organizations that at least in part fought, inspired fear, or otherwise oppressed on behalf of authoritarian regimes.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Internet 'discussion' of circumcision should be prohibited.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

This is exactly the kind of thing I was getting at. Awful. About the only subjects that are 'worse' are rape, Israel/Palestine/etc, and the economic policies of the Third Reich.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I would like to thank everyone for proving my point.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Pretty clear that the thread should be locked. Levels of toxicity are way too high.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

With a garden it would be more a case of digging it up and starting again, but, sure.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I was thinking of being more actively destructive.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Cut it out.