2024 Third Party and Independent Candidate General discussion

[PSOL]

Surely the 13th completely irrelevant leftist splinter group with negligible ballot access will make a huge impact, even though the first 12 didn't. I could see this warranting some attention if it were a merger of existing groups, but as it stands this is yet another group starting from scratch with no ballot access splitting the already tiny pool of socialist voters in the US.

As far as leftist third parties go, there's already:

Green Party
Party for Socialism and Liberation
Peace and Freedom Party
Socialist Workers Party
Socialist Party USA
Socialist Alternative
Socialist Equality Party
Socialist Action Party
Working Class Party
and then like a dozen others which no longer run candidates but claim not to be defunct.

1,5, and 6 endorsed each other for one campaign

2,3 ran together

The WCP didn’t run a candidate and the remaining parties either ran a write in campaign or were in the ballot in less than 7 states. They also are based with branches numbering five or less and less than a hundred members among them.

The People’s party is on the ballot in 4 states already, they can get on more.

[AltWorlder]

Yeah pointing out the number of leftist third parties is irrelevant. There are multiple tiny third parties for any political alignment (there’s like two separate single-issue Legalize Marijuana parties alone). A prominent figure known to the mainstream like Coronel West running has the potential of uplifting any group he campaigns with, whether a third party or just a personal vehicle party, to ballot access.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Just makes it easier for Biden to solidify the blk vote over Mafia RFK, Cuomo and Kerry Kennedy had kids and Mario Cuomo had ties to Mob that's why he didn't run for Prez in 1992

It all makes sense now but there was two factions of the Mafia Jack Ruby faction and Frank Sinatra and the ones that wanted Kennedys dead just like Blk Panthers and Muslims had Farrakhan faction and Malcolm X factions

Jack Ruby was obviously a Godfather he had a beanies hat

[The Mikado]

I'm really disappointed in you guys for talking about all the irrelevant stuff rather than ballot access, the only question that actually matters for third party candidates and something that convinces me that the Greens, even with an irrelevant candidate, will outpoll Cornel West handily.

Why?

Greens have automatic ballot access in two major states that are going to be EXCEPTIONALLY hard for a new party to achieve it in: Texas and North Carolina. I don't see any way a party with access in Texas is outpolled by a party without access in Texas even if West does better than the Greens in every state they're both on the ballot, that's a major gap.

It'll be an interesting test to see how seriously the People's Party is to see how good they are at ballot access: Kanye West's campaign was a total slipshod disaster and got access in 18 states, missing some of the easy ones (they missed access in easy Wisconsin by showing up 10 minutes after filing closed). But once you get past 20ish states they start getting much harder. Even a relatively disciplined and rooted party like the Greens couldn't tackle ballot access in a number of tricky states like Georgia and basically has to rely on the work of previous incarnations of the party that already got them the access in Texas.

(One of the reasons why the Libertarian Party won't fade instantly even though their organization is crumbling: they have legacy ballot access in a lot of places that will take time to wither. They'll have access on over 40 ballots in 2024 even though they're clearly not intending to try hard...2028 will be when that starts showing fruit and they start losing a lot of their lines)

But yeah, I don't see any way the People's Party outpolls the Greens to become the largest left third party in America because I see no way they get on the ballot in Texas. That's just going to be way way way too many votes left on the table for them to overtake the Greens.

[The Mikado]

The upshot is if the People's Party tries, they can almost certainly get ballot access in WI and MI (and MN and NH if you consider those swing states) but no other competitive states, probably.

PA is hard, NV is hard (the Greens don't even have access there), AZ is hard, and GA is EXTREMELY hard (the Greens don't have access there either).

[PSOL]

The Green party, which was founded in the 1980s, has 25,000 dues paying members and 240,000 RVs and managed to poll ~408,000 counting write ins not tallied by Atlas. They were joined by various organizations and figures like the SP (1,500 members) and SAlt (1,000+ members). The PSL, founded in 2004, and friends (P&F, LUP) probably have 1-3,000 active members by my estimates and polled ~87,000 votes and gained ~16,000 raw votes. The WCP, founded in 2012 unofficially, which is registered in two states score an average of several thousand downballot for statewide and federal legislative races and is running for president. At some point ballot access ceases mattering and it goes to GOTV machines. The Green party was risking collapse and loss of 4 more states had they not been victorious in lawsuits, immediate signatures, and decisive action in preventing saboteurs from rendering state parties absolvent.

Cornel West most likely will be a dud candidate because no way in hell does popularity matter. Examples like Kanye and Roseanne show this time and time again. There’s also the real phenomenon of left wing democrats refusing to vote for left wing candidates because they have proven time and time again they are sheepish cowards either buying into the “close race” delusion or refusing to do something which would not make them be the “good leftists” voting blue no matter who. The DSA regularly goes after members not licking Joe Biden’s balls like they were ice cream.

[AltWorlder]

If some random bureaucrat like Evan McMullin could secure ballot access in 2016, surely Cornel West can do decently as we no longer live in pandemic times.

Kanye was unhinged and didn’t actually campaign. Rosanne couldn’t secure a third party nomination. So this West might have a better shot.

[The Mikado]

If some random bureaucrat like Evan McMullin could secure ballot access in 2016, surely Cornel West can do decently as we no longer live in pandemic times.

McMullin got all the easy states and nowhere else. 11 states total.



[Mod note: image adjusted for width.  Please be careful about posting images that are too big.]

The dark states are access, light are write in status. This is literally worse than Kanye's 18 states four years later.

[PSOL]

Mods there are two threads which should be merged in this one, thank you. Anyway on established parties.

https://twitter.com/HowieHawkins/status/1665750792932925440?cxt=HHwWgIC9kanh950u...

The Green parties are meeting fraternally.

Alliance is petered out since the 2022 midterms. No new news or website updates

ASP voter results:
Peter Sonski of Connecticut, 328 – 52%
Jacqueline Abernathy of Texas, 207 – 33%
Joe Schriner of Ohio, 50 – 8%
Larry Johnson of Colorado, 24 – 4%
Erskine Levi of California , 16 – 3%

Afroman seems to be running his campaign through social media solely at https://twitter.com/ogafroman

[AltWorlder]

Alliance is petered out since the 2022 midterms. No new news or website updates

Couldn't even make it long enough to serve as a Rocky De La Fuente vehicle, smdh

[PSOL]

In light of the fact that Nina Turner has successfully bounced for the Democratic Party and is going to win, that removes one of the many possibilities of a presidential nominee. Of course, there are a looooot of personalities to choose from. In order from those I like to those I don’t:

• Abby Martin: Host of the Empire Files and Breakthrough News. Longtime activist in the DSA. Has links to the PSL inner command through her husband, Mike Prysner. If anyone is going to have a chance at nabbing the nomination of the P&FP through PSL bloc voting, it’s her. She’s going to attract most AES-supporting Marxist-Leninists, The people at The Grayzone, and the only person who can possibly wrack up the most DSA locals. The left of the People’s Party.
• Rose McGowan: Leader of Code Pink and major #MeToo figure. On accounts of the latter alone, she’s up here. Anti-imperialist social democrat.
• Cornel West: A major supporter of Sanders with links to activist groups and certain segments among the Black Left, such as the Poor People’s Campaign. Religious socialist. Theoretically could get the support of Bob Avakian’s RCP through West’s involvement with Refuse Fascism, so that’s an added 100+ circulators, doorknockers, and voters from it. I think a great person to be VP.
• Marianne Williamson: My favorite cleric. A figure notable nationwide for her 2020 presidential run, charity work in aiding the poor and sick, union busting, and copyright battles for the works of her grand master. Her baggage extends further into her actual writings; a proponent of the prosperity gospel, antivaxx stances, and the oddity of her religious beliefs. Technically not a member. Being a former Green Party supporter is also another predictable touch, so glad these elements are gone at least
• Nick Brana: Bernie surrogate who started the party. By my sources most likely the dude responsible for not forming a relationship with the Green Party. Standard social democrat and person who idolizes William Jennings Brian.
• Susan Sarandon: the odd celebrity in there. On accounts of her status of working in high institutions and her wealth, she’s on the party’s right as opposed to the apparent left position of actor Danny Glover. Bobo figure
• Jimmy Dore: E-celeb notable for controversy covered previously. Runs a very slick set of self-promotion and operations however

Ok, I was very close with my observations but I definitely missed the mark. For one running Empire Files and codePink are full time jobs. Marianne’s opportunism is apparent as was her shrewd operation that was going swimmingly till the Left’s preacher jumped in. Our black WJB has a lot of connections to the wider left and a much more pleasant personality on top of that.

Nick Brana, in knowing his worth, is trying to revive his failed project by running someone much bigger than himself. Everyone else falls in line because they don’t have the time to put in real work.

Also given how cringe mutual aid as it is practiced is, the work of several parties here in promoting it was incorrect. SAlt had the correct line and I’m sorry for doubting that.

[Continential]

What happened to Dore’s candidacy?

Anyway, the Alliance collapse makes sense as the Forward Party is a better vehicle for someone who wants to join a party which is vague centrism with plenty of strong supporters of Yang in it.

[AltWorlder]

The Alliance Party was studiously trying to not reinvent the wheel by forging alliances with local centrist independence parties to accumulate ballot access, rather than focusing on building an entirely new party on their own, but I guess that work is mooted by not having actual candidates to give that ballot access to.

[Lief 🗽]

West went out of his way to support “Brother Trump” in 2016

Citation?

https://twitter.com/cornelwest/status/635996114060050432?s=46&t=o2RmfeV6yYJk...

[PSOL]

The Alliance Party was studiously trying to not reinvent the wheel by forging alliances with local centrist independence parties to accumulate ballot access, rather than focusing on building an entirely new party on their own, but I guess that work is mooted by not having actual candidates to give that ballot access to.

The alliance party was the work of political insiders and grifters with no real connection to reality. The fact that already they are begging for candidates like the Green party does is quite sad.

West went out of his way to support “Brother Trump” in 2016

Citation?

https://twitter.com/cornelwest/status/635996114060050432?s=46&t=o2RmfeV6yYJk...

Not everything authentic is good.

Anyway the craziest thing just happened, the Socialist party went full 180 on aesthetics and have became very much a Marxist-Leninist party. Whether this is a genuine turn or similar to the WWP trick is debatable, but that makes them the only nominal communist party with elected officials in a loooong time. It’s good that red is in fashion.

[Agonized-Statism]

Still leaning toward Hawkins if he runs, but considering West. Not sure why he didn't run Green.

[PSOL]

Still leaning toward Hawkins if he runs, but considering West. Not sure why he didn't run Green.

Because the Green Party per the words of the People party are “too socialistic” and have an “ossified bureaucracy” that they can’t immediately take over.

https://twitter.com/LavenderGreens/status/1664009582669348864?cxt=HHwWgIDS3cX535...

https://twitter.com/nick_brana/status/1665943288967462917?cxt=HHwWioDQrYimz54uAA...

2023 is going off strong

[Vice President Christian Man]

West went out of his way to support “Brother Trump” in 2016

Citation?

https://twitter.com/cornelwest/status/635996114060050432?s=46&t=o2RmfeV6yYJk...

I still wouldn't classify that as an endorsement. It reminds me of the way Sanders talked about George Wallace in a 1972 article which was far from an endorsement.  And West has been very critical of Trump both while he was in office and after.

[Lief 🗽]

Could Brother West win Vosem’s vote??
https://twitter.com/cornelwest/status/23848928873021440?s=46&t=o2RmfeV6yYJk0...

[GM Team Member and Deputy PPT WB]

Had West run for the Dems I probably would give him my vote. Right now the only reason I’m considering Williamson is more in spite of rather than because of her. I just want a more progressive delegation to the DNC.

edit, maybe not with all the pro-russia BS now. Why the hell are so many leftists garbage on foreign policy

[Stranger in a strange land]

Had West run for the Dems I probably would give him my vote. Right now the only reason I’m considering Williamson is more in spite of rather than because of her. I just want a more progressive delegation to the DNC.

edit, maybe not with all the pro-russia BS now. Why the hell are so many leftists garbage on foreign policy

Because their understanding of foreign policy begins and ends with "America Bad".

But in all seriousness, this is a BIG problem I have with DoreKnobs, Marinanne-stans, Krystal Ball fans, and now seemingly Cornell West: if your flagship policies are abandoning Ukraine, opposing vaccine mandates, and holding hands and singing Kumbaya with January 6 Insurrectionists, then I honestly don't care how good you are on other issues. These three are a complete deal-breaker.

[PSOL]

Had West run for the Dems I probably would give him my vote. Right now the only reason I’m considering Williamson is more in spite of rather than because of her. I just want a more progressive delegation to the DNC.

edit, maybe not with all the pro-russia BS now. Why the hell are so many leftists garbage on foreign policy

Because their understanding of foreign policy begins and ends with "America Bad".

But in all seriousness, this is a BIG problem I have with DoreKnobs, Marinanne-stans, Krystal Ball fans, and now seemingly Cornell West: if your flagship policies are abandoning Ukraine, opposing vaccine mandates, and holding hands and singing Kumbaya with January 6 Insurrectionists, then I honestly don't care how good you are on other issues. These three are a complete deal-breaker.

The latter three don’t do this at all and “abandoning Ukraine” isn’t apart of their platform.

Cornel West and Marianne Williamson’s base understand they don’t benefit from worldwide collapse just to benefit a select few shareholders and the MIC, and so does most of the country. Not their fault some of you do.

[PSOL]

Well, questions made prior are being answered, Cornel West is seeking the Green party endorsement. This primary season just got interesting.

[Canis]

Had West run for the Dems I probably would give him my vote. Right now the only reason I’m considering Williamson is more in spite of rather than because of her. I just want a more progressive delegation to the DNC.

edit, maybe not with all the pro-russia BS now. Why the hell are so many leftists garbage on foreign policy

Because their understanding of foreign policy begins and ends with "America Bad".

But in all seriousness, this is a BIG problem I have with DoreKnobs, Marinanne-stans, Krystal Ball fans, and now seemingly Cornell West: if your flagship policies are abandoning Ukraine, opposing vaccine mandates, and holding hands and singing Kumbaya with January 6 Insurrectionists, then I honestly don't care how good you are on other issues. These three are a complete deal-breaker.

Mariannes stance is continued support to Ukraine, West supports ending all foreign aid and closing all military bases
If you watch his democracy now interview he paints the picture that america pushed Russia into this situation by expanding nato which ignores the fact all those eastern European countries asked to join NATO out of fear of Russian aggression. I have great respect for Cornell west and agree with him on 90% of the issues but he's dead wrong about Ukraine.
 

[Shaula🏳️‍⚧️]

Well, questions made prior are being answered, Cornel West is seeking the Green party endorsement. This primary season just got interesting.

I highly doubt they would endorse him cause of how swampy the Green Party is. Only maybe if he gets a ton of media attention.