Pelosi: "We're capitalists, and that's just the way it is."

[136or142]

Um, she's right. The Democratic Party is not Marxist-Leninist. She's also completely right about Adam Smith who did not propose some social Darwinist Ayn Rand/Paul Ryan style system and openly called for things like universal health care and labor unions.

But she doesn't even make a gesture towards democratic socialism. And the fact she uses Adam Smith, who was a laissez-faire economist that are every Republican's wet dream, to justify her defense of neoliberalism is a slap in the face to any leftist in the Democratic Party.

She needs to retire, or else I want a primary challenge.

Adam Smith was not a laissez-faire economist: http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2010/03/adam-smith-was-not-a-laissezfaire-ideologue.html

[136or142]

Um, she's right. The Democratic Party is not Marxist-Leninist. She's also completely right about Adam Smith who did not propose some social Darwinist Ayn Rand/Paul Ryan style system and openly called for things like universal health care and labor unions.

But she doesn't even make a gesture towards democratic socialism. And the fact she uses Adam Smith, who was a laissez-faire economist that are every Republican's wet dream, to justify her defense of neoliberalism is a slap in the face to any leftist in the Democratic Party.

She needs to retire, or else I want a primary challenge.

Adam Smith was not a laissez-faire economist: http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2010/03/adam-smith-was-not-a-laissezfaire-ideologue.html

As someone who has had either the fortune of misfortune (if so it was entirely self-inflicted since it was of my own volition) of having read Wealth of Nations cover to cover, I can say I agree with this point. Adam Smith left the door open at several points for policies and organizations that would be considered in opposition to laissez-faire economics generally. Remember that a good bit of what became known as the Classical School of economics was largely driven by people to latched onto aspects of Smith's proposals and lines like the invisible hand, which was interpreted a certain way to benefit their points, were likewise applied. This was passed along through neoclassical and ultimately neoliberal economics. However, it is a mistake to pigeonhole Smith as defined in this fashion as opposed to closely reading and studying his work and trying to ascertain what he actually advocated for.

I had volumes one to five of the Wealth of Nations in two books but I couldn't understand the old English.  I gave them to a waiter acquaintance of mine who is a fourth year economics student.

I think all Adam Smith meant by the 'invisible hand' is that producers make investing decisions off of pricing signals and don't need to be told what to invest in by some central bureaucrat.

I recently read Keith Dawson's book on the Industrial Revolution in which he stated that at least as far as that went often times that was the case, but other times, as with James Watt needing more precise parts in order to build his steam engine to his required specifications, he had to prod parts manufacturers.

[136or142]

I love the responses to this just as a reflection of who we are as a political system. The left is distressed if she's telling the truth, the right is distressed that she isn't telling the truth in the first place.

I think it's also accurate to point out here that liberals like me think 'what Pelosi said is completely accurate' while further left Bernie Sanders type progressives are unhappy with what she said.

[136or142]

I love the responses to this just as a reflection of who we are as a political system. The left is distressed if she's telling the truth, the right is distressed that she isn't telling the truth in the first place.

I think it's also accurate to point out here that liberals like me think 'what Pelosi said is completely accurate' while further left Bernie Sanders type progressives are unhappy with what she said.

I was a Bernie Sanders supporter during the primaries, and I absolutely agreed with Pelosi here and believe she's doing a pretty good job of being house minority leader so far.

That kid's line of questioning was stupid and frankly cringeworthy. It's not that young people "don't believe in capitalism," we just don't blindly fawn over it. We believe Capitalism is flawed and that it is the job of the government to correct those flaws.

I think that's fair and I've written previously that Sanders himself isn't actually a socialist as he doesn't advocate the nationalization of any industries (he actually calls himself a democratic socialist which refers to workplace democracy, but I've never heard him mention that either) but I don't think that reflects the views of most of his supporters.

[136or142]

I love the responses to this just as a reflection of who we are as a political system. The left is distressed if she's telling the truth, the right is distressed that she isn't telling the truth in the first place.

I think it's also accurate to point out here that liberals like me think 'what Pelosi said is completely accurate' while further left Bernie Sanders type progressives are unhappy with what she said.

I was a Bernie Sanders supporter during the primaries, and I absolutely agreed with Pelosi here and believe she's doing a pretty good job of being house minority leader so far.

That kid's line of questioning was stupid and frankly cringeworthy. It's not that young people "don't believe in capitalism," we just don't blindly fawn over it. We believe Capitalism is flawed and that it is the job of the government to correct those flaws.

The "kid" isn't even asking Pelosi if Democrats would convert to full-on socialism. He's asking for "contrast with right-wing politics", but Pelosi just dismisses that right out of the gate as some radical assumption.

What's infuriating about this is the outright refusal by most centrists like Pelosi to actually go left on economics. I saw this throughout the primary, how liberals would constantly talk about Hillary as "a progressive who gets things done", casting opposition to any of the social democratic reformism that Bernie was proposing as some radical idea. Even if we had opportunities like promoting the redistribution of wealth within a capitalist framework, that's disregarded as "too left-wing".

I think it was in fairly liberal Oregon where the initiative this election cycle for 'single payer' health care went down 72-28%

[136or142]

Good. Hopefully the Dems never embrace socialism.

Enjoy capitalism while it still exists.

Capitalism is over. We're heading back to mercantilism for the benefit of the plutocrats.

It really worries me to see these neo-mercantilists on the march. There's nothing capitalist about closing borders, restricting trade, and shirking diversity.

Trump, at best, is advocating either mercantilism or reciprocity.

[136or142]

I love the responses to this just as a reflection of who we are as a political system. The left is distressed if she's telling the truth, the right is distressed that she isn't telling the truth in the first place.

I think it's also accurate to point out here that liberals like me think 'what Pelosi said is completely accurate' while further left Bernie Sanders type progressives are unhappy with what she said.

I was a Bernie Sanders supporter during the primaries, and I absolutely agreed with Pelosi here and believe she's doing a pretty good job of being house minority leader so far.

That kid's line of questioning was stupid and frankly cringeworthy. It's not that young people "don't believe in capitalism," we just don't blindly fawn over it. We believe Capitalism is flawed and that it is the job of the government to correct those flaws.

The "kid" isn't even asking Pelosi if Democrats would convert to full-on socialism. He's asking for "contrast with right-wing politics", but Pelosi just dismisses that right out of the gate as some radical assumption.

What's infuriating about this is the outright refusal by most centrists like Pelosi to actually go left on economics. I saw this throughout the primary, how liberals would constantly talk about Hillary as "a progressive who gets things done", casting opposition to any of the social democratic reformism that Bernie was proposing as some radical idea. Even if we had opportunities like promoting the redistribution of wealth within a capitalist framework, that's disregarded as "too left-wing".

I think it was in fairly liberal Oregon where the initiative this election cycle for 'single payer' health care went down 72-28%

No it was Colorado.  I wish we had that in Oregon!

Thanks. So, if it was in Oregon it would have gone down maybe 2-1.

[136or142]

Whether you agree with her or not, this is why a lot of people see the current Democratic Party as "Republican lite."

I don't disagree entirely with that, but I don't think it's because the Democratic Party is by and large a liberal party and not a social democratic party, I think it's because many Democrats seem to want to be such a big tent party to include people like Senator Joe Manchin who is a Democrat in name only.

In the discussion on whether we would be happy if Joe Manchin lost in 2018 I pointed out that when you try to be a big enough tent to appeal to everybody, a lot of people are going to believe you don't actually stand for anything.