The Public White House: Constitutional Convention at FINAL VOTE!

[Purple State]

A very important announcement recently posted in the White House thread.

Speech Regarding the Position of Game Moderator

My fellow gamers,

Over the course of my term as President of this nation, I have found it difficult, neigh impossible, to keep one major promise that I made during the campaign. When asked repeatedly whether I could maintain the same level of activity by the GM as I had displayed during my time in the position, I answered time and time again that it would be done, that someone would step into the void and fill my shoes.

I was wrong and I apologize.

With Al's resignation as GM, I find my administration in a moment of mini-crisis. Though I have, over the past two months, sought to devolve certain powers and responsibilities from the less active GM, such as the monitoring of foreign events, it is not possible to actually make up for a woefully inactive GM. As such, the game has struggled to advance a coherent narrative that had started just a few months prior.

There is little else I can say on this matter. I have failed to uphold a standard of the utmost importance to the nation and to myself. And so now I announce an open application period for all those interested in picking up the mantle of GM where I laid it down just over two months ago. For now, please send a simple message of interest to me and I will follow up with each applicant individually.

Thank you.

~PS

[Purple State]

Announcement

I've given this thread a new look as we move into the final month and a half of this term. I'm going to engage in this thread and others even more than I have been as we work to complete the Constitutional Convention, implement Wiki reforms, reinvent the GM-SoIA-SoEA dynamic and restore the nation to economic health.

The Constitutional Convention is nearly halfway complete and it is important, given the breadth of the undertaking, that everyone begin reviewing the changes in anticipation for the popular vote that will be needed for final ratification.

A directory of completed documents is publicly available for review.

Also, the Convention welcomes outside opinions. If you have ideas for changes, whether to something already considered or not, let us know. More input can only help the process.

[Purple State]

Statement Responding to the Lies Propagated by the AndrewCT/Duke Ticket

Check out my response to AndrewCT and Duke's assertions about the Constitutional Convention below:

Constitutional Convention
The Atlasian Constitutional Convention, while a novel idea with good intentions, once again failed to achieve its designated mission. It was poorly planned, poorly communicated, and poorly run. AndrewCT will assume the role of presiding officer over the ConCon and hold a vote. If the delegates vote to suspend, the administration will implement their new reforms. First, a new vote will be held. If the voters request another ConCon, AndrewCT/Duke believe the citizens of Atlasia should decide when and how the constitutional convention should be run, not a select group of politicians. In the event of another constitutional convention, the ticket supports the relocation of the convention to the Atlasia Fantasy Election forum as opposed to being tucked away in an obscure board no one ever checks. It must be an open process to everyone, and it demands everyone be involved to truly make the process worthwhile.

I'm sorry but this entire paragraph is patently absurd. The stated intentions of the Convention have been and continue to be to consolidate the amendments and streamline the Constitution of Atlasia to make it easier to read. That is exactly what the Convention has been working on for the past few months.

In addition, the entire process has bun run in a transparent and inclusive manner. The entire work of the Convention is available on the Wiki, ulr=https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Constitutional_Convention_Completed_Documents]here[/url]. I have provided consistent updates in the People's White House thread, here. Your assertions are not only wrong, but seem to be a malicious attempt to deceive the people who overwhelmingly called for this Convention.

I know it may seem politically expedient to take shots at my administration, but don't let that lead you to stand against Atlasia at the same time.

I urge Atlasians to see past this self-serving hackery and continue to push for the successful completion of the Constitutional Convention, one of the most important steps towards simplifying Atlasia and improving the game for current and new members.

[Purple State]

Question

Am I making the game too boring for everyone?

Seriously, I have been pretty baffled by the general sense of apathy in the game at the moment. Granted game reform isn't the sexiest of causes to champion for four straight months, but my sense was that people had some energy behind improving the game. Was I mistaken? Was the will of the people more about electing a "fixer" to cleanup the game while everyone tuned out?

So hit me with your best shot. How can I make this game more interesting for everyone, right here, right now? Because heck, I'm out of ideas on how to engage you more actively than I have been.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Well, PS, there are just some obvious people who never show any interest in any kind of improvement reform, and now are attacking those, who actually dedicated themselved to this, like you, to win an election.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     The will of the people was electing the more centrist candidate with a fully formed ticket. Trying to read anything more into the intentions of Atlasian voters is an exercise in frustration, really.

[Purple State]

     The will of the people was electing the more centrist candidate with a fully formed ticket. Trying to read anything more into the intentions of Atlasian voters is an exercise in frustration, really.

That's probably true, but it does seem as though apathy is unusually high at the moment. Though it may be that I perceive apathy as higher than I had previously because of my high level of involvement as president.

It just seems as though there is a divide between the Government and Election boards that didn't quite exist when I first joined the game, and that lively debates on politics and policy are no longer as commonplace as a result.

[Vepres]

     The will of the people was electing the more centrist candidate with a fully formed ticket. Trying to read anything more into the intentions of Atlasian voters is an exercise in frustration, really.

That's probably true, but it does seem as though apathy is unusually high at the moment. Though it may be that I perceive apathy as higher than I had previously because of my high level of involvement as president.

It just seems as though there is a divide between the Government and Election boards that didn't quite exist when I first joined the game, and that lively debates on politics and policy are no longer as commonplace as a result.

Rarely is something controversial proposed, and on the rare occasion it is, a compromise passes with seven or eight votes. Of course, this has been a problem the whole time I've been here (A healthcare bill that was only slightly to the right of single-payer passed 8-2, after all), but it has worsened.

[Purple State]

Observation on the State of the Current Presidential Campaigns

This statement is primarily directed at those actually running for president and vice president in the upcoming elections:

Thus far in the campaign, the rhetoric has been heated at times. This is not a bad thing insofar as it may reengage Atlasians and demonstrate differences between the two tickets; however, it seems that the two sides are paying close attention to each other, while the rest of Atlasia tunes out.

I highly encourage each campaign to focus on reaching out to Atlasians and energizing them as the elections approach. And I will continue to use my time left in office to lay the groundwork for the next administration.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Question

Am I making the game too boring for everyone?

Seriously, I have been pretty baffled by the general sense of apathy in the game at the moment. Granted game reform isn't the sexiest of causes to champion for four straight months, but my sense was that people had some energy behind improving the game. Was I mistaken? Was the will of the people more about electing a "fixer" to cleanup the game while everyone tuned out?

So hit me with your best shot. How can I make this game more interesting for everyone, right here, right now? Because heck, I'm out of ideas on how to engage you more actively than I have been.

Yea you pretty much suck.

Just kidding.

Well actually you do and its entirely out of your control. The statement I bolded pretty much somes it up. If people are tuned out while expecting someone to be the "fixer" then the battle is lost. There will be no success in "Game Reform" unless the reform has the practicial effect of tuning people into the game. If it doesn't have that effect, it's all just wishful thinking and reform for reform sake. That was your Obama style "miscalculation". The Consitutional Convention is a prime example that you still have a hard time grasping this. The Con-Con has not by any means grabbed peoples interest and I see nothing that writing a new Consitution that will stir it. You have the progress within the convention to point to as a success, but ask yourself, "Success towards what"? If you or anyone else can point to a single benefit towards an established goal then opposing the Con-Con would be suicidal. The reason you can't is a testament as to why it really doesn't matter anymore and why no one really cares that Andrew/Duke is critical of.

A outside observer can make the case that the Con-Con has become nothing but an attraction for the superactive and no one has any interest in its actions beyond that group. As such any expectations of its effects are seriously just wishfull thinking.

Substance is important, but your failure was in not realizing the practicality side of it. I realize failure may be a tough word for this context and by no means am I saying that someone else could do better or will do better. The problem you had was that you set yourself up for failure in this regard. Getting back to practicality for a minute. You could take Marokai Blue, a policy wonk with a distastefull personality and have him burry us in facts and figures and policies to repond to them and a sledge hammer to wash it all done. But it wouldn't generate activity. The only activity generated would be the mob of Atlasian Tea Partiers looking to Tar and Feather him for it. And that would be the very thing that MB would squash as much as possible. 

[Purple State]

Question

Am I making the game too boring for everyone?

Seriously, I have been pretty baffled by the general sense of apathy in the game at the moment. Granted game reform isn't the sexiest of causes to champion for four straight months, but my sense was that people had some energy behind improving the game. Was I mistaken? Was the will of the people more about electing a "fixer" to cleanup the game while everyone tuned out?

So hit me with your best shot. How can I make this game more interesting for everyone, right here, right now? Because heck, I'm out of ideas on how to engage you more actively than I have been.

Yea you pretty much suck.

Just kidding.

Well actually you do and its entirely out of your control. The statement I bolded pretty much somes it up. If people are tuned out while expecting someone to be the "fixer" then the battle is lost. There will be no success in "Game Reform" unless the reform has the practicial effect of tuning people into the game. If it doesn't have that effect, it's all just wishful thinking and reform for reform sake. That was your Obama style "miscalculation". The Consitutional Convention is a prime example that you still have a hard time grasping this. The Con-Con has not by any means grabbed peoples interest and I see nothing that writing a new Consitution that will stir it. You have the progress within the convention to point to as a success, but ask yourself, "Success towards what"? If you or anyone else can point to a single benefit towards an established goal then opposing the Con-Con would be suicidal. The reason you can't is a testament as to why it really doesn't matter anymore and why no one really cares that Andrew/Duke is critical of.

A outside observer can make the case that the Con-Con has become nothing but an attraction for the superactive and no one has any interest in its actions beyond that group. As such any expectations of its effects are seriously just wishfull thinking.

Substance is important, but your failure was in not realizing the practicality side of it. I realize failure may be a tough word for this context and by no means am I saying that someone else could do better or will do better. The problem you had was that you set yourself up for failure in this regard. Getting back to practicality for a minute. You could take Marokai Blue, a policy wonk with a distastefull personality and have him burry us in facts and figures and policies to repond to them and a sledge hammer to wash it all done. But it wouldn't generate activity. The only activity generated would be the mob of Atlasian Tea Partiers looking to Tar and Feather him for it. And that would be the very thing that MB would squash as much as possible. 

You raise interesting points that I largely agree with, though I think the Convention (and there are still some aces there) is proof that even the active elite aren't tuning in. A debate I intentionally setup with a clause mandating regional legislatures was not much of a debate at all.

I do acknowledge that my initiatives failed to gin up any interest in the game over the past few months. Wiki reform and the Convention don't exactly engage people the way they used to. But I am interested to hear if you have any ideas on what I could have done to make things go the other way. Could I have (and could I still) engaged people without simply playing to the partisan divide?

In other words, is there a middle ground between what I've done and your example with a hardcore agenda from Marokai, that could have brought people into discussions without creating an acerbic and angry atmosphere?

The question may no longer be important for me, but it could have profound effects for the next administration.

[Dr. Cynic]

There is another problem with activity and that is, if you're not either in party heirarchy or running\performing in elected office... There's really very little for the average Atlasian to do unless they want to do a newspaper\commentary...

Unless I'm missing something, there is just not a lot to do if you aren't in an office.

[Purple State]

There is another problem with activity and that is, if you're not either in party heirarchy or running\performing in elected office... There's really very little for the average Atlasian to do unless they want to do a newspaper\commentary...

Unless I'm missing something, there is just not a lot to do if you aren't in an office.

True, which was why I spent most of my time in Atlasia helping build up regional legislatures. It seems as though even those have died down though over the past few months.

The entire game had slowed to a crawl since well before Marokai and I had announced our candidacy to run back in April. The whole premise under which I approached him was, I believe, "I'm bored, let's run for president/vice president." So while I will take the blame for not adequately engaging people in the last few months, I don't think of my administration as the root of the problem. This was an obvious problem well before I even decided to run.

Part of me wants to say that the back-to-back-to-back controversies of Ogis, Hamilton and then McCarthyist anti-sockism so poisoned the environment in the game that people simply became fed up and tuned out. That era in Atlasia was as full of hate as the era of DWTL, except that the regionalism fights were a single, drawn out controversy rooted in an ideological debate, as opposed to the more recent era, which was rooted in personal bickering.

Would anyone argue that this analysis is off base?

[Dr. Cynic]

There is another problem with activity and that is, if you're not either in party heirarchy or running\performing in elected office... There's really very little for the average Atlasian to do unless they want to do a newspaper\commentary...

Unless I'm missing something, there is just not a lot to do if you aren't in an office.

True, which was why I spent most of my time in Atlasia helping build up regional legislatures. It seems as though even those have died down though over the past few months.

The entire game had slowed to a crawl since well before Marokai and I had announced our candidacy to run back in April. The whole premise under which I approached him was, I believe, "I'm bored, let's run for president/vice president." So while I will take the blame for not adequately engaging people in the last few months, I don't think of my administration as the root of the problem. This was an obvious problem well before I even decided to run.

Part of me wants to say that the back-to-back-to-back controversies of Ogis, Hamilton and then McCarthyist anti-sockism so poisoned the environment in the game that people simply became fed up and tuned out. That era in Atlasia was as full of hate as the era of DWTL, except that the regionalism fights were a single, drawn out controversy rooted in an ideological debate, as opposed to the more recent era, which was rooted in personal bickering.

Would anyone argue that this analysis is off base?

No, in fact, it's spot on. I, myself have gotten sick of the awful sludge of Atlasia more than once and still come back for more. A bit like a masochist, I suppose. I used to serve in the NE Assembly before I had to leave... Where the hell did it go?!... I haven't even found the bloody thing since coming back as having a single post. It got so personally reprehensible to me that I just decided I wouldn't come back and yet, here I am again...

I'm close to proposing a radical solution to this problem that could even cause some backlash... There's only one group that seems to be really enjoying themselves and that's the Populares... Basically Atlasia's Tea Party... That is a sad state of affairs indeed. Nothing against most of them, because they're active, but let's be honest, a lot of the feelings of rancor come from the prickly personalities that everyone seem to have picked up. It gets so hateful and so damn personal that I think some forget that they aren't really in a public office. They like to try and hurt people or lash out at people... There may be nothing that can change that...

[Teddy (IDS Legislator)]

As a community, we've turned Atlasia into a country we are all comfortable with.

The reason things get personal is that there is no more ideology left to debate.

[Fritz]

I actually agree with several points made by Yankee.  The work you have done in game reform does little to actually encourage activity.

Teddy points out that we have become a stagnant community with nothing left to debate.  To some degree, that is true.

That is why, as President, I will work for recruitment of new Atlasians, of all political persuasions, as the primary goal of my administration.  We need new blood injected into the game to keep things interesting.  Also the primary excitement in this game is the elections, and greater numbers of voters makes for more exciting elections.

I dream of a day when 200+ votes cast in elections becomes the norm.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Question

Am I making the game too boring for everyone?

Seriously, I have been pretty baffled by the general sense of apathy in the game at the moment. Granted game reform isn't the sexiest of causes to champion for four straight months, but my sense was that people had some energy behind improving the game. Was I mistaken? Was the will of the people more about electing a "fixer" to cleanup the game while everyone tuned out?

So hit me with your best shot. How can I make this game more interesting for everyone, right here, right now? Because heck, I'm out of ideas on how to engage you more actively than I have been.

Yea you pretty much suck.

Just kidding.

Well actually you do and its entirely out of your control. The statement I bolded pretty much somes it up. If people are tuned out while expecting someone to be the "fixer" then the battle is lost. There will be no success in "Game Reform" unless the reform has the practicial effect of tuning people into the game. If it doesn't have that effect, it's all just wishful thinking and reform for reform sake. That was your Obama style "miscalculation". The Consitutional Convention is a prime example that you still have a hard time grasping this. The Con-Con has not by any means grabbed peoples interest and I see nothing that writing a new Consitution that will stir it. You have the progress within the convention to point to as a success, but ask yourself, "Success towards what"? If you or anyone else can point to a single benefit towards an established goal then opposing the Con-Con would be suicidal. The reason you can't is a testament as to why it really doesn't matter anymore and why no one really cares that Andrew/Duke is critical of.

A outside observer can make the case that the Con-Con has become nothing but an attraction for the superactive and no one has any interest in its actions beyond that group. As such any expectations of its effects are seriously just wishfull thinking.

Substance is important, but your failure was in not realizing the practicality side of it. I realize failure may be a tough word for this context and by no means am I saying that someone else could do better or will do better. The problem you had was that you set yourself up for failure in this regard. Getting back to practicality for a minute. You could take Marokai Blue, a policy wonk with a distastefull personality and have him burry us in facts and figures and policies to repond to them and a sledge hammer to wash it all done. But it wouldn't generate activity. The only activity generated would be the mob of Atlasian Tea Partiers looking to Tar and Feather him for it. And that would be the very thing that MB would squash as much as possible.  

You raise interesting points that I largely agree with, though I think the Convention (and there are still some aces there) is proof that even the active elite aren't tuning in. A debate I intentionally setup with a clause mandating regional legislatures was not much of a debate at all.

I do acknowledge that my initiatives failed to gin up any interest in the game over the past few months. Wiki reform and the Convention don't exactly engage people the way they used to. But I am interested to hear if you have any ideas on what I could have done to make things go the other way. Could I have (and could I still) engaged people without simply playing to the partisan divide?

In other words, is there a middle ground between what I've done and your example with a hardcore agenda from Marokai, that could have brought people into discussions without creating an acerbic and angry atmosphere?

The question may no longer be important for me, but it could have profound effects for the next administration.

Off course there would be middle ground. The politics of the day would set the goal posts of what is mainstream and what isn't. What matters is that there is a level of partisanship and competition. A level of political jockeying.

Hardcore debate isn't the problem. Politics is meant to be intense. Even in the European Countries where the parties are far more centrist, there is still a heavy amount of intense and even personal intensity. You problem was not being too centrist as opposed to being too liberal. That was just an example. Your problem was you pushed some policy changes but those were relatively quiet and took a back seat too the "Game Reform". The adjenda can be from anywhere on the ideological spectrum. Though the more centrist it is, the less debate and less intensity there will be. Game Reform is important and even critical but it can't be the primary or sole focus of an administration. Otherwise you are left with a "Where is the beef?" problem. "Beef" as in what will make changes to current policy that are very political in their debate (in some cases very ideological).

There is another problem with activity and that is, if you're not either in party heirarchy or running\performing in elected office... There's really very little for the average Atlasian to do unless they want to do a newspaper\commentary...

Unless I'm missing something, there is just not a lot to do if you aren't in an office.

True, which was why I spent most of my time in Atlasia helping build up regional legislatures. It seems as though even those have died down though over the past few months.

The entire game had slowed to a crawl since well before Marokai and I had announced our candidacy to run back in April. The whole premise under which I approached him was, I believe, "I'm bored, let's run for president/vice president." So while I will take the blame for not adequately engaging people in the last few months, I don't think of my administration as the root of the problem. This was an obvious problem well before I even decided to run.

Part of me wants to say that the back-to-back-to-back controversies of Ogis, Hamilton and then McCarthyist anti-sockism so poisoned the environment in the game that people simply became fed up and tuned out. That era in Atlasia was as full of hate as the era of DWTL, except that the regionalism fights were a single, drawn out controversy rooted in an ideological debate, as opposed to the more recent era, which was rooted in personal bickering.

Would anyone argue that this analysis is off base?

No, in fact, it's spot on. I, myself have gotten sick of the awful sludge of Atlasia more than once and still come back for more. A bit like a masochist, I suppose. I used to serve in the NE Assembly before I had to leave... Where the hell did it go?!... I haven't even found the bloody thing since coming back as having a single post. It got so personally reprehensible to me that I just decided I wouldn't come back and yet, here I am again...

I'm close to proposing a radical solution to this problem that could even cause some backlash... There's only one group that seems to be really enjoying themselves and that's the Populares... Basically Atlasia's Tea Party... That is a sad state of affairs indeed. Nothing against most of them, because they're active, but let's be honest, a lot of the feelings of rancor come from the prickly personalities that everyone seem to have picked up. It gets so hateful and so damn personal that I think some forget that they aren't really in a public office. They like to try and hurt people or lash out at people... There may be nothing that can change that...

But that is the point. Intensity is the life blood of politics. The problem with intensity is that we have a bunch of children (more based on emotional development then age) who take things too far. They don't know where to set the boundaries or they have to win at all costs whether its for the good of either the issue they are dealing with or game play. I frankly have immersed totally game play and issues to the point where I make many decisions based off what will be the most interesting. If I achieve everything I want, I can't get it because I already have it. You don't baked the cake that is already made. So pushing for a utopianistic society that is adhereing to ones ideology 100% is political suicide once you have it and detrimental to the game.

I actually agree with several points made by Yankee.  The work you have done in game reform does little to actually encourage activity.

Teddy points out that we have become a stagnant community with nothing left to debate.  To some degree, that is true.

That is why, as President, I will work for recruitment of new Atlasians, of all political persuasions, as the primary goal of my administration.  We need new blood injected into the game to keep things interesting.  Also the primary excitement in this game is the elections, and greater numbers of voters makes for more exciting elections.

I dream of a day when 200+ votes cast in elections becomes the norm.

I still agree with you, just like I did last July. The trouble was in working to bring that about (well I actually did the least in terms of quanity of recruits in that period) I managed to recruit our friend from BAkersfield. You don't know who you are getting. And at times when sending those recruitment PMs I feel like a combination of a snake oil salesmen and a telemarketer. Most sane people wouldn't join this place if they knew what they were getting into.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

As a community, we've turned Atlasia into a country we are all comfortable with.

The reason things get personal is that there is no more ideology left to debate.

Half the problem is fear. Fear that if they push what they want, Atlasians left leaning electorate will forever destroy their future in Atlasia. When is the last time we had a Pro-Life President? Keystone Phil. Now without getting into all the things that made his administration not so good, why did he win while no other such conservative can get close?

Whatever the case there are many Conservatives who aren't comfortable with current policies but feal trapped. So I would have to disagree with your assessment there about everyone being comfortable where it is. Marokai is not comfortable, he wants to go more leftward, he has told me in the past. Yet he went negative and crossed the line the most.

[Marokai Backbeat]

As a community, we've turned Atlasia into a country we are all comfortable with.

The reason things get personal is that there is no more ideology left to debate.

Whatever the case there are many Conservatives who aren't comfortable with current policies but feal trapped. So I would have to disagree with your assessment there about everyone being comfortable where it is. Marokai is not comfortable, he wants to go more leftward, he has told me in the past. Yet he went negative and crossed the line the most.

You must be imagining things then, because the only thing Marokai "wants" is a proper running game. I merely just propose things I like or have an understanding of, because otherwise, I wouldn't be proposing anything at all.

[Vepres]

As a community, we've turned Atlasia into a country we are all comfortable with.

The reason things get personal is that there is no more ideology left to debate.

Half the problem is fear. Fear that if they push what they want, Atlasians left leaning electorate will forever destroy their future in Atlasia. When is the last time we had a Pro-Life President? Keystone Phil. Now without getting into all the things that made his administration not so good, why did he win while no other such conservative can get close?

Whatever the case there are many Conservatives who aren't comfortable with current policies but feal trapped. So I would have to disagree with your assessment there about everyone being comfortable where it is.

Which is why I won't make any effort to suppress even my most controversial views if I am elected to the Senate

You have made an excellent point. The Atlasian right never has influence (at least, not since I've been here and, from my understanding, for quite some time before then as well). After all, except for free trade agreements, I don't believe I have ever seen a truly conservative/libertarian piece of legislation pass, or even come close. The fact is, the right is not happy, but we cannot win unless we give in the center-left social democracy that has dominated this game for so long. In all my Senatorial campaigns, I have publicly expressed my ideas and views and did so much more so than many of my opponents, and still lost.

The other problem, which is very closely related, is that moderates aren't really moderates in office. How many people with 'E' scores in the low negatives or even low positives basically take a piece of socially democratic legislation, make a few tweaks to it, then all vote for it. The example I always give is the healthcare bill. It had lots of debate to be sure, but ultimately the final bill was single-payer minus the banning of private insurance. Franzl and afleitch, two self proclaimed moderates (actually, afleicth is a self-proclaimed conservative) voted for it.

Compare this to real life US politics. The moderates refused to vote for healthcare reform until many changes were made to it. The right, instead of quietly sitting on the sidelines mumbling to themselves like in Atlasia, was fired up and attacking the legislation all the time.

The problem is, most "moderates" are, when in the Senate, on the left. So, Teddy isn't far off, a majority (I'd guess 55%-60%) of voters are content with the status quo ideologically.

@PS and Dr. Cynic: With all due respect, I believe that our problem is the lack of ideological clashes and drama and scandal. People are too nice, too compromising, too pragmatic.

[Marokai Backbeat]

You are viewing this game, bizarrely, through the eyes of the American political spectrum, which is warped beyond all belief and by no means the norm. Franzl has watered down many things I've proposed in the past. Afleitch too. They are moderates, they're just European moderates.

Atlasia is not America.

Besides, this constant talking about how Social Democracy is the status quo is asinine. Plenty of my proposals in the last few months have been rejected. Plenty of my past proposals were twisted beyond recognition. Of the JCP Senate delegation, a grand total of one is a self-proclaimed Social Democrat. The reason the healthcare bill passed so easily in the end was because you view things through the warped perspective of an American ideologue. The rest of the world enjoys a strong public healthcare system in some form or another.

And honestly, what's hilarious is that while you spend an entire post there complaining about how "moderates" aren't your specific American definition of "moderate" you talk about the "right wing" as if they're just some fair little group. The "right-wing" you speak of in Atlasia are borderline Anarchists.

It's also hilarious that you talk about how things are never close in the Senate. Do you pay any attention whatsoever?

One of Hans' proposals just failed by 4-5, even after being moderated to an almost unrecognizable degree.

The SEDZI Act that I penned scraped by passage 5-4 with one abstaining.

My regulatory proposals toward the Oil industry were rejected by a vote of something like 4-6.

The tax bill to bring internet sales in line with regional sales taxes barely passed with a vote of 5-4 and one abstaining.

Quite frankly you don't know what the hell you're talking about. This woe-is-me tripe from the "right-wing" (aka the anarchists) has been going on for months now. Your criticism of the Senate for passing or rejecting everything by large majorities is observably untrue (you seem to have a pattern of disagreeing with empirical evidence) and your whining about the evil Social Democratic status-quo (remember by bill to stop tax breaks to companies moving jobs overseas? yeah, failed) is also BS.

You can argue some sort of wonky academic point. You can argue theories until you turn blue in the face. But you cannot, and I stress again, cannot, argue with what actually happened.

[Vepres]

Marokai, your whole post is deeply flawed.

Firstly, you consider it bizarre that I am viewing the game through the American spectrum. You say that is "warped" and "not the norm". The vast majority of Atlasians happen to Americans, and all of us are posters on a website called the US Election Atlas.

You strawman the Atlasian right as all borderline anarachists. I could easily call the Atlasian left borderline socialist, and be just about as right (i.e.: not at all). Your argument is based on the whole premise that the right is "too extreme" because Atlasia is on a "European political spectrum". As long as you hold that fallacious premise, nobody can refute you.

You talk about water down legislation and stuff. True, that happens. The fact remains that that legislation is still left of center. You're describing the problem. The game is a tug o' war between the center and the left, while the right (which is probably 40-some% of players) sits on the sidelines.

I challenge you to find any piece of legislation passed since the summer of 2009 (when I arrived) that is truly right-wing (besides free trade agreements). I don't want some token tax cuts, as our tax system is still, on the whole, very left-wing. Name one piece of legislation that appreciably reduced the size of government. The debates here are about how much to increase government, not whether or not we should increase it at all.

The discussion was about why activity and enthusiasm was so low, I gave you an answer. The right feels it can't truly pass any legislation or win more than a handful of senate seats, and thus largely sits on the sidelines in most debates. Thus, they lose motivation in the game. The left then has no true opponent to debate, only moderates to "work with". That demoralizes them. The moderates become demoralized because they have no foils to themselves.

Imagine if the political norm is Atlasia was the reverse? Just think if every piece of legislation that passed decreased the size of government, that the so-called moderates ended up voting for legislation that, while watered down, still decreased the size of government. Just imagine that the last time a President who wasn't moderate or right-wing was a complete failure from over two years ago. Look at it from our perspective.

Now, I ask you, can you think of a better reason that interest is so low here besides things related to what I've laid out?

[Dr. Cynic]

@ Vepres

I sure don't mind ideological arguments. I do mind when people bicker and act like it's a real office so they take offense to everyone and then you get the personal namecalling and insults. That is what is bullsh**t. Now, there are people here who engage in that practice and it drags everything down into the gutter.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

The problem is large numbers of Atlasian voters are American including yourself the last time I checked (Just making sure you didn't relocated to North Korea or anything). And many of them, especially on the right are entirely uncomfortable with European style politics and prefer a more solid Right wing then exists on the Continent. It may not be what you want or what anyone wants but in the words of Walter Cronkite, "Thats the way it is". As such we need a hybrid of both and we will struggle atll a comfortable mixture is arrived at. Unless you can control people's hearts and minds you can't control people's politics, Marokai. Yet one more reason people aren't interested, especially on the right, which I mentioned earlier. You don't want activity Marokai. Thats the problem. You have ideology to create and evoke it from people but then you respond to aggressively that it discourages debate.


What actually happens and what people perceive are two very different things. Last time I checked politics is all about perception. Unless you can controll perceptions, then what people perceive and what really happens will never be congruent. Activity is controlled and determined by what people perceive, what they perceive their future and the amount of interest to be.

And lastly defeating bad bills is not the same as actually being able to push for and pass good conservative legislation without being treated as some kind of dangerous villain. Of course in your mind there is nothing acceptable or even remotely worthwhile in terms of conservative legislation. Thats perfectly fine that you beleive that, but crusading against people for thinking otherwise is not healthy for this game, Marokai.


The reason your worthless "Stop giving tax breaks to outsourcing companies" failed is because its an entirely bs arguement created by for and off politicians to run populist campaigns. Its election year pandering, not good policy. There is no such thing as a "tax break for sending jobs overseas". And you will never avoid having a tax break that has the "unintentional effect" of causing some outsourcing. You can't create a bill that will achieve what you want without costing us jobs in other sectors or hurting us in some other way. Its always been that way too. At the very least the Atlasian Senate couldn't come up with a way to shape or word it that would solve that flaw with that legislation.

I thought you said you were comfortable, not you are complaining about stuff not passing, which is it?

[Teddy (IDS Legislator)]

I think one of the reasons the game fails TBH is the whole fact that it is american. US politics was designed to allow individuals rights and the ability to stand up for good bills. While that is a "good" thing it is not very "fun".

Compare to example, Canada.

Political Parties here are private entities. The Leader can throw you out of the party - for life - by decree. Therefore if you are an MP, you want to be in the party, because Independents very rarely get elected here. When your party has a majority that effectively means that your leader is Dictator. Of course, he must keep his party happy, or the party and it's MP's can toss the leader aside. All the action takes place in Parliament, in the House of Commons, where you have legislators, cabinet members, and the nation's leader all at one another's throats day in day out. Now that is fun, but not very productive.