SCOTUS overturns Roe megathread (pg 53 - confirmed)

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

What a sad day for this country. I shudder to think about what's next. Will the Court overturn marriage equality? I assume that will be the next challenge, if it isn't already in the works.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

What a sad day for this country. I shudder to think about what's next. Will the Court overturn marriage equality? I assume that will be the next challenge, if it isn't already in the works.

Same sex relations, contraception, school integration,

And maybe the economic issues as well, social security, Medicare,


The whole new deal paradigm is at risk.

Right. I am worried contraception is what will be targeted next. Clarence Thomas essentially said in his opinion that the court should re-examine the landmark cases that established the right to contraception, right to same sex marriage and right to same sex intimacy.

This really is a frightening time.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

This is a wonderful start!

Everyone who is all like "silly Dems, all we want to do is return it to the states!" ... take notice. The end goal is 100% illegal everywhere.

Oh absolutely. This is just the beginning. The end goal is to make abortion illegal under any circumstances in the United States.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

I think the least likely to be overturned is the right to contraception. I believe Kavanaugh signaled in his concurring opinion that the Roe ruling does not mean all rights are at risk. I understand Kavanaugh also said he considered Roe settled law, so I am not sure his word means anything.

I am certain that Alito, Thomas and ACB would vote to overturn same sex marriage, legalized sodomy and right to birth control tomorrow if they could, regardless of how the litigation unfolds. Roberts voted against same sex marriage in 2013, but it is unclear if he would vote to overturn the law now. I always knew Kavanaugh would be the key vote on Roe. I am disappointed and disturbed that he voted the way he did.

Even if Manchin decides to join the Democrats and ends the filibuster to pass a nationwide bill legalizing abortion, there is nothing stopping Republicans from overturning the law, or worse, banning abortion nationwide, if they win the presidency and Congress in 2024.

This is the nightmare the Supreme Court has brought on this nation.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

States cannot stop abortion pills from being mailed to someone. Granted, abortion pills do not work after X amount of time, but states cannot regulate interstate commerce. Only the federal government can. The only possibility of restricting abortion pills would be a nationwide ban on them passed by Congress, which, again, the Republicans could attempt to do if they regain control of the federal government.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

https://twitter.com/ap/status/1542504901074292737

While I support it, this will only work until the GOP gains control of the government. The Democrats better act fast because it is almost certain the GOP will gain control of one or both houses of Congress after the midterms.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Ah, looks like my state of South Carolina just introduced a bill banning all abortions except for the life of the mother. If you're raped you still have to have the child.

The bill also makes it a felony to assist a woman or help a woman travel to another state for an abortion. I'm not sure how that is constitutional or how the state plans to stop a woman from getting into a car and driving to North Carolina or wherever else abortion is accessible.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Ah, looks like my state of South Carolina just introduced a bill banning all abortions except for the life of the mother. If you're raped you still have to have the child.

The bill also makes it a felony to assist a woman or help a woman travel to another state for an abortion. I'm not sure how that is constitutional or how the state plans to stop a woman from getting into a car and driving to North Carolina or wherever else abortion is accessible.

If I did not know who you were, and your bio as it were, I would have assumed that as to the bolded sentence, you made it up out of whole cloth as an uber troll. You may not be sure counselor that criminalizing paying for the gas for a woman to drive down to Jacksonville for an abortion is an unconstitutional  burden on the right to travel, but I am.* Ditto for the woman traveling to Jacksonville paying for her own gas. This sh*t is being done as performance art to feed the ravenous appetites of the crazed base by amoral lean and hungry political actors.

*Notwithstanding that, inter alia, some, e.g., Clarence Thomas, may have the opposite opinion.

Of course, restricting the woman from traveling is unconstitutional. My statement of whether it is constitutional was said sarcastically, because it obviously is not constitutional to restrict travel. That's tantamount to saying I cannot travel to Colorado and smoke pot because pot is illegal in SC even though it is legal in Colorado.

I do not believe the bill in question forbids women from seeking abortions out of state, but it does forbid others from providing information on where to seek an abortion and forbids others from assisting the woman seeking an out of state abortion in any way. If I pay for gas for a women to go to Florida or NC for an out of state abortion, I am a felon and they will lock me up for 20 years if this bill is passed

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Ah, looks like my state of South Carolina just introduced a bill banning all abortions except for the life of the mother. If you're raped you still have to have the child.

The bill also makes it a felony to assist a woman or help a woman travel to another state for an abortion. I'm not sure how that is constitutional or how the state plans to stop a woman from getting into a car and driving to North Carolina or wherever else abortion is accessible.

bUT thEy cAn jUsT mOvE

I’m surprised you still have a republican  avatar tbh.

I haven't voted for a Republican, outside of my county's probate court judge, who does a great job and is not political at all, in many election cycles. I once said I kept my blue avatar out of tradition, but given how the Republican Party has gone off the rails in the last decade plus (and my off and on disappearances from Atlas forum), perhaps it is time to retire the blue avatar.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Ah, looks like my state of South Carolina just introduced a bill banning all abortions except for the life of the mother. If you're raped you still have to have the child.

The bill also makes it a felony to assist a woman or help a woman travel to another state for an abortion. I'm not sure how that is constitutional or how the state plans to stop a woman from getting into a car and driving to North Carolina or wherever else abortion is accessible.

If I did not know who you were, and your bio as it were, I would have assumed that as to the bolded sentence, you made it up out of whole cloth as an uber troll. You may not be sure counselor that criminalizing paying for the gas for a woman to drive down to Jacksonville for an abortion is an unconstitutional  burden on the right to travel, but I am.* Ditto for the woman traveling to Jacksonville paying for her own gas. This sh*t is being done as performance art to feed the ravenous appetites of the crazed base by amoral lean and hungry political actors.

*Notwithstanding that, inter alia, some, e.g., Clarence Thomas, may have the opposite opinion.

Of course, restricting the woman from traveling is unconstitutional. My statement of whether it is constitutional was said sarcastically, because it obviously is not constitutional to restrict travel. That's tantamount to saying I cannot travel to Colorado and smoke pot because pot is illegal in SC even though it is legal in Colorado.

I do not believe the bill in question forbids women from seeking abortions out of state, but it does forbid others from providing information on where to seek an abortion and forbids others from assisting the woman seeking an out of state abortion in any way. If I pay for gas for a women to go to Florida or NC for an out of state abortion, I am a felon and they will lock me up for 20 years if this bill is passed

Add a violation of the 1st Amendment to the list. So many amendments, so many violations, so little time.

Sorry if I irritated you. I did not mean to imply that you are anything other than an A+ rated lawyer in all that you do. As for this rotting old brain, my A rated days are long over. 

Oh, Torie, you never irritate me.

I did not mean to come off that way. It has been a tough time for our country and very upsetting to follow, but if I stop paying attention, that makes me no better than those enabling what is going on.

Ah, looks like my state of South Carolina just introduced a bill banning all abortions except for the life of the mother. If you're raped you still have to have the child.

The bill also makes it a felony to assist a woman or help a woman travel to another state for an abortion. I'm not sure how that is constitutional or how the state plans to stop a woman from getting into a car and driving to North Carolina or wherever else abortion is accessible.

bUT thEy cAn jUsT mOvE

I’m surprised you still have a republican  avatar tbh.

I haven't voted for a Republican, outside of my county's probate court judge, who does a great job and is not political at all, in many election cycles. I once said I kept my blue avatar out of tradition, but given how the Republican Party has gone off the rails in the last decade plus (and my off and on disappearances from Atlas forum), perhaps it is time to retire the blue avatar.

When was the last time you voted Republican for president, senator or governor

I voted for McCain in 2008 despite my reservations with Palin. I nearly voted for Romney in 2012, but decided at the last minute that Obama had done a sufficient job in his first term that he deserved re-election.

I voted for Lindsay Graham in both the primary, to defeat a tea party challenger, and the general. This was before he went off the rails and became a Trump lackey. I also voted for Nikki Haley in 2014.

Since 2014, I voted for one Republican, Mark Sanford in 2016, and Charleston County's probate court judge.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Not been on the forum for a while so this may have been discussed but what do you guys think of the idea to nuke the filibuster and legalize abortion nationwide?

I guess it's kind of moot because the SC would almost surely strike that down, but that seems like a dangerous road to go down because you're setting up Republicans to not just repeal it when they get in power again but to use that precedent to ban abortion in all 50 states in Congress. As it stands it's going to be legal in the overwhelming majority of the country, especially going by population.

I don't think there is any way the SC would strike down a federal law legalizing abortion rights. The opinion issued merely stated there is no right to an abortion in the constitution. It did not rule that abortion must be illegal nationwide. It turned the decision back to elected representatives.

The only dangerous thing about killing the filibuster to pass federal legislation into law is that every 4-8 years, abortion is banned and then re-legalized, etc. There is also the possibility that the GOP will simply kill the filibuster and pass a nationwide ban if they win the presidency in 2024. I wouldn't put it passed them.

It will depend on whether the party begins to lose elections or bleeds women voters tremendously as to how bold and restrictive they want to get.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

https://twitter.com/KatAMacfarlane/status/1546206196603953153?s=20&t=P9t0bKT...

Between this and refusals to prescribe life-saving medication for autoimmune diseases, I don't know how you can look at all of this and not think it's an attack on the health of any woman of child-bearing age.

Or any expecting parents. At this rate, it is very easy to imagine my fear mongering about being detained, questioned, and possibly arrested for having a problematic pregnancy might not be too far fetched.

There’s a reason why almost every single country that does things like this are very poor.

That's where this gets messy because it will come down to how zealous a DA is in a particular district. Some DAs will refuse to enforce any sort of prosecution of women while you will find some that will because they view women as chattel and nothing more.

For now, it sounds as if prosecuting women who receive abortions out of state is off the table, but we are in the beginning innings here. As with the anti-choice movement, it is all about baby steps. Chip away at these rights one step at a time.

After all, if life begins at conception, why even make exceptions for rape, incest, or life of the mother? A fetus is a life just like anyone on this planet, right?

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

https://twitter.com/KatAMacfarlane/status/1546206196603953153?s=20&t=P9t0bKT...

Between this and refusals to prescribe life-saving medication for autoimmune diseases, I don't know how you can look at all of this and not think it's an attack on the health of any woman of child-bearing age.

Or any expecting parents. At this rate, it is very easy to imagine my fear mongering about being detained, questioned, and possibly arrested for having a problematic pregnancy might not be too far fetched.

There’s a reason why almost every single country that does things like this are very poor.

That's where this gets messy because it will come down to how zealous a DA is in a particular district. Some DAs will refuse to enforce any sort of prosecution of women while you will find some that will because they view women as chattel and nothing more.

For now, it sounds as if prosecuting women who receive abortions out of state is off the table, but we are in the beginning innings here. As with the anti-choice movement, it is all about baby steps. Chip away at these rights one step at a time.

After all, if life begins at conception, why even make exceptions for rape, incest, or life of the mother? A fetus is a life just like anyone on this planet, right?

And “life of the mother” or “self defense” isn’t really on the table because fetuses like agency. An person without agency. Can you imagine that? I imagine if you wanted to get into weird hypotheticals, where, by they way, we already are, an anti-choicer could ask you what Mr. Burns should  have done when Maggie shot him.

I suppose you could use self defense if the fetus, if left alone, would kill the woman, but one could argue agency as well. I think rape or incest exceptions are likely to be gone first as anti-choicers continue to push for zero abortions nationwide. After all, any pregnancy is a "blessing from God" and you cannot take away the humans right of the fetus simply because it was formed through rape or incest.

See where this is going? Not somewhere good.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Lol, I remember when Lindsey said the abortion issue should be left up to the states.

I hope everyone takes note that overturning Roe was not the end game. This bill is a perfect example of that.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

What is the process for a constitutional amendment in South Carolina?  Does it require a public vote?

One of the justices will retire next year and the legislature will likely stack the court with someone who will rule in the other direction.