Germany megathread

[Helsinkian]

The far-right Alternative für Deutschland (AfD) party is planning to transform Germany into an authoritarian state similar to Russia, the country’s vice-chancellor and economics minister, has warned, tacitly backing calls to ban the party.

[...] Habeck appeared to support calls to outlaw the party, while stressing the risks of such a move “dangerously backfiring” were it to fail.

“The damage that a failed attempt would cause would be massive. Which is why if a case is put, it would have to absolutely 100% stand up in court. It’s something you have to consider very carefully,” the Green politician told the magazine Stern.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/17/afd-plans-to-turn-germany-into-authoritarian-state-vice-chancellor-warns

What do people seeking to ban the AfD think would happen after they have succeeded? That all the AfD voters would just shrug their shoulders and go back to voting for the established parties? Would they not simply set up a new party -- one that is more careful in its messaging but which still fundamentally believes the same things?

[Yeahsayyeah]

Well, resuming or substituting a banned Party ist a felony, so in theory that should be hard.

[CumbrianLefty]

Seriously shouldn't the real aim be "the AfD can continue, but get rid of your actual Nazis"?

[Lord Halifax]

Well, resuming or substituting a banned Party ist a felony, so in theory that should bei hard.

did you use German words on purpose?

[Yeahsayyeah]

Well, resuming or substituting a banned Party ist a felony, so in theory that should bei hard.

did you use German words on purpose?

It's a typo. Being a German whose mother tongue is German German words do usually make sense if I use them. ;-)

[Yeahsayyeah]

Seriously shouldn't the real aim be "the AfD can continue, but get rid of your actual Nazis"?

The allegation that there are "moderates" in the AfD has been shaky for a long time. It's a bit like "moderate" US Republicans where the right wing of yesterday are the "moderates" of today (see, for instance, the career of Frauke Petry).

Even the so called "moderates" are die-hard reactionaries that want to severely alter the fabric of our society to be much more discriminating and exclusive, authoritarian and so on in a way that does clash with the values of our constitution. In my opinion AfD is in essence a fascist party without the aesthetics.

Also, there is clearly a continuum from mainstream conservatism to the völkisch right. So, where to draw the line?

It's probably to late to ban the AfD, actually, as it is too entrenched as of today, but the main goal would be to destroy far-right networks that are undermining democracy in this state, to drain them of their financial means and to delegitimize the right wing talking points that get normalized and amplified by them.

[Amanda Huggenkiss]

I had been sceptical on whether the discussion about a potential ban of the AfD would be beneficiary for those who are against it. Recent events changed by mind a bit. The Brandenburg branch has indicated that it fully supports the plans which were discussed in the clandestine meeting, this is an outright endorsement of a racist worldview and, in my opinion, the smoking gun that is needed to pursue action against the party, and at least state branches should be dissolved if that is what they believe in.

[Yeahsayyeah]

In a strange story arc the initiator of the far right "secret meeting" and neo nazi activist since the late seventies, Gernot Mörig, has had contact to Sahra Wagenknecht for years that was initiated by Max Otte, former chair of the far right CDU splinter group Werteunion (Values Union).

She denies having noticed anything right wing about him. Wouldn't you probably want to check contacts initiated by someone the moment he falls rightward out of the overton window?

[Clarko95 📚💰📈]

Germany passed the new dual citizenship law this morning. Out of 639 votes cast, 382 voted in favor, 234 against, and 23 abstained

[President Johnson]

Germany passed the new dual citizenship law this morning. Out of 639 votes cast, 382 voted in favor, 234 against, and 23 abstained

Here are some more details:

https://twitter.com/dw_politics/status/1748368884795621575

[President Johnson]

Also, more mass demonstrations against AfD, the far-right and fascism. Protest in Hamburg was so overcrowded that authorities needed to close entrance. Tagesschau in the headline says just 30k, but the article says 80k and other sources quoted in the article even claim 130k.

https://twitter.com/TheLocalGermany/status/1748368610081607947

https://twitter.com/tagesschau/status/1748387313955025203

[Storr]

Also, more mass demonstrations against AfD, the far-right and fascism. Protest in Hamburg was so overcrowded that authorities needed to close entrance. Tagesschau in the headline says just 30k, but the article says 80k and other sources quoted in the article even claim 130k.

https://twitter.com/TheLocalGermany/status/1748368610081607947

https://twitter.com/tagesschau/status/1748387313955025203

Based:

"German Chancellor Olaf Scholz has compared the far-right plan to deport migrants to Nazi racial ideology, calling it "an attack on our democracy."

He has welcomed planned protests against right-wing extremism this weekend."

"If there is one thing that must never again have any place in Germany, it's the ethno-racial ideology of the national socialists. That's exactly what the repulsive resettlement plans of these extremists are. The very thought sends a shiver down the spine."

https://twitter.com/dw_politics/status/1748431632812634554?s=20

[President Johnson]

More mass protests today, all across Germany. And it's lovely to see. I went to Stuttgart today, where several thousands of people showed their opposition to AfD, nazism, fascism and right-wing extremism. Various different groups and organizations organized the protest and all other major political parties have expressed support, especially SPD, Greens, FDP and CDU/CSU. Protest was absolutely peaceful and no incidents were reported from elsewhere so far.

[DavidB.]

"German Chancellor Olaf Scholz has compared the far-right plan to deport migrants to Nazi racial ideology, calling it "an attack on our democracy."

Quite interesting coming from the man who expressed a desire for the exact same thing in Der Spiegel on October 20th, 2023, in an article titled "We Have to Deport People More Often and Faster".

[MaxQue]

"German Chancellor Olaf Scholz has compared the far-right plan to deport migrants to Nazi racial ideology, calling it "an attack on our democracy."

Quite interesting coming from the man who expressed a desire for the exact same thing in Der Spiegel on October 20th, 2023, in an article titled "We Have to Deport People More Often and Faster".

Surely you're smart enough to see the difference between deporting criminals and deporting citizens?

[Amanda Huggenkiss]

Snip

I think Tagesschau reported 250,000-300,000 people in total across Germany. That's a crazy amount. Many cities have reported the largest crowds for any protest in history. I was in Frankfurt and the whole city was packed, with around 40,000 participants, even though it was minus 4 degrees outside. I've never seen anything like that. Makes one feel a bit better about the whole situation honestly.

[CumbrianLefty]

I think its fair to say many of the protest organisers weren't expecting the numbers that turned up.

It does appear that the revelation of this AfD "plan" has produced something visceral amongst their opponents, despite some claims of general apathy. The next few polls might be interesting to see.

[Middle-aged Europe]

"German Chancellor Olaf Scholz has compared the far-right plan to deport migrants to Nazi racial ideology, calling it "an attack on our democracy."

Quite interesting coming from the man who expressed a desire for the exact same thing in Der Spiegel on October 20th, 2023, in an article titled "We Have to Deport People More Often and Faster".

No, Olaf Scholz DID NOT express a desire for the "exact same thing".

Olaf Scholz did express a desire to deport migrants who legally have no right to be in Germany.... people who are bound to be deported anyway under the current law but where it often doesn't happen (immediately) for various reasons. This is a group of about 250,000 people we are talking here about.

The attendants of the recent right-wing nutjob conference in Potsdam want to radically change current laws to make it possible to deport millions of German citizens with migrant background... citizens who don't even necessarily have a criminal record or anything.

[CumbrianLefty]

"German Chancellor Olaf Scholz has compared the far-right plan to deport migrants to Nazi racial ideology, calling it "an attack on our democracy."

Quite interesting coming from the man who expressed a desire for the exact same thing in Der Spiegel on October 20th, 2023, in an article titled "We Have to Deport People More Often and Faster".

Very obviously its not, as even the most cursory examination will reveal.

This is remarkably careless and bad faith from you. Do better.

[Middle-aged Europe]

With 15,000 (other sources say 16,000) attendees at yesterday's anti-AfD protests, my hometown of Halle in the eastern state of Saxony-Anhalt has seen the biggest political demonstration since 1989/90:

[jaichind]

[President Johnson]

Protests continued today, over 200k in Munich (was overcrowded and closed then). Even in a town of 32k like Herrenberg a few miles from my home, fellow SPD members who attended said over 6k showed up there.

https://twitter.com/dwnews/status/1749142168910922081

[Clarko95 📚💰📈]

Went to another one in Berlin today in front of the Bundestag. Seen claims that it was 350k in Berlin and 1.4 million across Germany, but there are so many competing claims and it's also not 100% clear if these numbers are just today or cumulative across the weekend/last two weeks.


Either way, the CORRECTIV report has really scared/disgusted a lot of people:

[Middle-aged Europe]

AfD is fuming, lamenting a "left-green media campaign" against their party.

As always, when people are protesting against them it's illegitimate protest, and when people are rallying for their policies it's a legitimate protest.

[Yeahsayyeah]

AfD is fuming, lamenting a "left-green media campaign" against their party.

As always, when people are protesting against them it's illegitimate protest, and when people are rallying for their policies it's a legitimate protest.

Today, I heard some people mock this with the chant "Ich hab' einen Antifa-Tarifvertrag!" - I have a wage agreement with the Antifa. ;-)