2020 Census and Redistricting Thread: New Jersey

[Roll Roons]

https://newjerseyglobe.com/redistricing/for-challenge-to-n-j-congressional-map-supreme-court-asks-democrats-to-respond-to-one-count-in-gop-complaint/

Honestly, I may keep a close eye on this one. Wallace may have completely screwed himself with that comment.

[kwabbit]

https://newjerseyglobe.com/redistricing/for-challenge-to-n-j-congressional-map-supreme-court-asks-democrats-to-respond-to-one-count-in-gop-complaint/

Honestly, I may keep a close eye on this one. Wallace may have completely screwed himself with that comment.

Isn't the majority of the court Christie appointed? I think the map will be upheld, but Wallace really made the most idiotic comment possible. Interesting that the court does not want to pursue the conflicts of interest from Wallace and his wife being major recipients of Democratic funds.

The tiebreaker being very obviously biased towards the Democrats in the first place and then choosing the Democratic map for a ridiculous and flimsy reason is basically the worst look possible, but it's NJ and blatant corruption is a tradition.

Honestly, I'm surprised that the Democratic Party didn't do a more aggressive gerrymander given that everyone knew that Wallace would pick the Democratic map from the get-go. They should've given NJ-07 Plainfield at least, which would've shifted it a few points to the left with basically no negative consequences. NJ-12 is supposed to be a sort of minority coalition district but it's already like 60% non-White without Plainfield.

[Torie]

Cooked data and a breach of confidentiality. What is a court to do, when a former judge, and one of their own, goes rogue?

https://newjerseyglobe.com/redistricing/claiming-partisan-fairness-models-are-proprietary-princeton-gerrymandering-project-wont-show-their-work/

[Skill and Chance]

This actually looks really bad. 

If they throw it out, does the commission run the process again with a new tiebreaker, or do we get a court drawn map?

[BoiseBoy]

This actually looks really bad. 

If they throw it out, does the commission run the process again with a new tiebreaker, or do we get a court drawn map?

They should just pick the GOP commissioner's map. It was better anyway.

[Brittain33]

This actually looks really bad. 

If they throw it out, does the commission run the process again with a new tiebreaker, or do we get a court drawn map?

They should just pick the GOP commissioner's map. It was better anyway.

They won’t do that because the GOP commissioners deliberately drew a less-gerrymandered map because they knew they wouldn’t be picked so wanted to look good. That map was never intended to be adopted. The commission will find a way to get to the appropriate outcome.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Until Republicans support a national gerrymandering ban, my only response to this is: “Take your crocodile tears somewhere else.  What goes around comes around.”

[CookieDamage]

Yall need to realize that NJ globe site is right leaning. I'm not gonna fret until a reputable source talks about this.

[Roll Roons]

Yall need to realize that NJ globe site is right leaning. I'm not gonna fret until a reputable source talks about this.

It's still been the best source for NJ politics in the past couple years. And Wildstein is a Republican, but the site is really not partisan. You might be thinking of Save Jersey, which is unabashedly a GOP partisan site.

[ProgressiveModerate]

Welp this really has been a mess.

I personally found NJ's process and lack of transparency to be messed up from the beginning, and Wallace's comments weren't helpful. Idk what will happen at this point, though I wouldn't count on the map being overturned yet as most of what Republicans are saying sounds like heresay which may be and is likely true if that makes sense, but there's not some secret recording of Wallace saying he'd pick Dems map no matter what.

Also wonder why the court choose Wallace in teh first place too?

[CookieDamage]

Yall need to realize that NJ globe site is right leaning. I'm not gonna fret until a reputable source talks about this.

It's still been the best source for NJ politics in the past couple years. And Wildstein is a Republican, but the site is really not partisan. You might be thinking of Save Jersey, which is unabashedly a GOP partisan site.

It may not be hackish but it's still biased enough to be giving outsized prominence to this story based on that. I won't fret until a map is actually thrown out.

[Antonio the Sixth]

This whole process does seem hopelessly broken and corrupt, and should really be reformed. I'm still not sure it was uniquely broken and corrupt this time compared to previous cycles.

[StateBoiler]

Until Republicans support a national gerrymandering ban, my only response to this is: “Take your crocodile tears somewhere else.  What goes around comes around.”

I'll personally support a national gerrymandering ban when Democrats acknowledge that districts drawn that disintegrate regions to ensure the election of a person from a certain ethnicity qualifies as gerrymandering and will likewise be banned.

It's New Jersey. Why are people surprised it's corrupt?

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Until Republicans support a national gerrymandering ban, my only response to this is: “Take your crocodile tears somewhere else.  What goes around comes around.”

I'll personally support a national gerrymandering ban when Democrats acknowledge that districts drawn that disintegrate regions to ensure the election of a person from a certain ethnicity qualifies as gerrymandering and will likewise be banned.

It's New Jersey. Why are people surprised it's corrupt?

No offense, but when I say that, I mean congressional Republicans.  That’s what really matters in this context.

[Roll Roons]

Legislative map drafts being released on Monday: https://twitter.com/wildstein/status/1488931101334806540?cxt=HHwWmIC94dW836kpAAA...

At the very least, there'll be some time for public comments. Hopefully this guy is better than Wallace.

[BoiseBoy]

https://twitter.com/wildstein/status/1489264868653821952?s=20&t=3znwzvY90A-1...

[Roll Roons]

F**k this. What a joke.

[Antonio the Sixth]

I have to say, I don't know about the merits of this particular case, but the whole process is in need a serious overhaul. Give NJ a real nonpartisan commission, like in CA or MI.

[CookieDamage]

Ctfu yall really thought the map would be struck down

[kwabbit]

The GOP needs to get its own Marc Elias. It seems like the Dems win every redistricting lawsuit and the GOP wins none.

[CookieDamage]

The GOP needs to get its own Marc Elias. It seems like the Dems win every redistricting lawsuit and the GOP wins none.

Or Maybe yall can support universal fair redistricting and ban gerrymandering. That way no one has to rely on lawsuits

[kwabbit]

The GOP needs to get its own Marc Elias. It seems like the Dems win every redistricting lawsuit and the GOP wins none.

Or Maybe yall can support universal fair redistricting and ban gerrymandering. That way no one has to rely on lawsuits

I do support that. All the gerrymandered maps should get struck down, not just the GOP ones.

Do partisan Democrats even support universal fair redistricting? Given the anger about AZ and CO and the enthusiasm for the Hochulmander, I'm skeptical. It seems like Torie is the only Red av really decrying Democratic gerrymandering, and most of the rest just wanted fair maps when they thought the GOP would gain from redistricting and are just fine with gerrymandering when it goes the other way.

Anyone who supports a gerrymander and says "Well if Republicans supported fair maps we wouldn't have to do this" obviously does not care about a fair redistricting process in the first place.

[Virginiá]

Do partisan Democrats even support universal fair redistricting? Given the anger about AZ and CO and the enthusiasm for the Hochulmander, I'm skeptical. It seems like Torie is the only Red av really decrying Democratic gerrymandering, and most of the rest just wanted fair maps when they thought the GOP would gain from redistricting and are just fine with gerrymandering when it goes the other way.

A big part of that is because the people who follow this on the Dem side know that it's only for that state, so thinking Democrats get burned in a state they control while Republicans are taking seat after seat in states they control creates a feeling of losing the battle. With the fact that national reform is further away than ever, there is a belief that Democrats have to gerrymander in the states they control to offset Republican gerrymandering. Really hard not to be sympathetic to that, particularly for a Democrat who came of age before 2010 and saw the effect partisan gerrymandering had on elections. There isn't anything necessarily wrong with believing it has to be national reform or bust, given the results so far at the state level.

If a national gerrymandering ban / commission bill had passed and every state was doing the same thing more or less, this wouldn't feel like such a zero-sum game with high stakes.

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

The GOP needs to get its own Marc Elias. It seems like the Dems win every redistricting lawsuit and the GOP wins none.

Or Maybe yall can support universal fair redistricting and ban gerrymandering. That way no one has to rely on lawsuits

I do support that. All the gerrymandered maps should get struck down, not just the GOP ones.

Do partisan Democrats even support universal fair redistricting? Given the anger about AZ and CO and the enthusiasm for the Hochulmander, I'm skeptical. It seems like Torie is the only Red av really decrying Democratic gerrymandering, and most of the rest just wanted fair maps when they thought the GOP would gain from redistricting and are just fine with gerrymandering when it goes the other way.

Anyone who supports a gerrymander and says "Well if Republicans supported fair maps we wouldn't have to do this" obviously does not care about a fair redistricting process in the first place.

I mean fair maps by only one side is a recipie for permenant disadvantage. After all the dems gerymanderong the resulting Congressional map is basically on par with a national fair map with the median district only being s fraction of a point to the right or left of biden popular vote margin.

[Torie]

Do partisan Democrats even support universal fair redistricting? Given the anger about AZ and CO and the enthusiasm for the Hochulmander, I'm skeptical. It seems like Torie is the only Red av really decrying Democratic gerrymandering, and most of the rest just wanted fair maps when they thought the GOP would gain from redistricting and are just fine with gerrymandering when it goes the other way.

A big part of that is because the people who follow this on the Dem side know that it's only for that state, so thinking Democrats get burned in a state they control while Republicans are taking seat after seat in states they control creates a feeling of losing the battle. With the fact that national reform is further away than ever, there is a belief that Democrats have to gerrymander in the states they control to offset Republican gerrymandering. Really hard not to be sympathetic to that, particularly for a Democrat who came of age before 2010 and saw the effect partisan gerrymandering had on elections. There isn't anything necessarily wrong with believing it has to be national reform or bust, given the results so far at the state level.

If a national gerrymandering ban / commission bill had passed and every state was doing the same thing more or less, this wouldn't feel like such a zero-sum game with high stakes.

I get that for Illinois, where there are no laws being abused or defied. That is not the case in NJ and NY, where the legal process was gamed and abused, and the law defied (the NY CD map being utterly outrageous). Where the Pub were in control, and constrained by law, putting aside DeSantis, they respected the law in Florida (with a friendly court to boot), and did pretty well in Ohio. And then there is NC where a Dem court thinks the state copying and pasting of the federal equal protection clause outlaws Pubmanders, which is an abuse of judicial power imo.