Young Muslim attitudes and the denial of the left in Britain (user search)
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  Young Muslim attitudes and the denial of the left in Britain (search mode)
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Author Topic: Young Muslim attitudes and the denial of the left in Britain  (Read 10960 times)
Filuwaúrdjan
Realpolitik
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Posts: 67,797
United Kingdom


« on: August 15, 2006, 11:10:29 AM »

It's interesting to note that you've generally ignored most of the findings from the poll (some of which, such as the general lack of respect for the MCB, are very interesting) and have instead focused on a few findings, which are generally minority viewpoints anyway.

To make a few specific comments:

There can be no compromise between our law and Sharia law on anything.

O/c it's not as though there is any political pressure whatsoever from more than a tiny minority of Muslims (see how many votes the now, basically, defunct Islamic Party of Great Britain got) for the introduction of Sharia law.

It's rather like the rest of society and the death penalty.

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A minority cannot just integrate itself into society; society has to integrate the minority. As this poll, and all others on the general subject, shows, most Muslims want to integrate into society. That they, on the whole, have struggled to do so is more a comment on society and on local housing policies than anything else.

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There are several reasons for the greater integration of Sikhs and Hindus, most of which have a lot to do with why they came here in the first place, and where they settled.
It's also important to remember that London Sikhs and London Hindus are a lot more affluent than London Muslims (outside London Sikhs and Hindus are not noticeably more integrated than Muslims; a quick look at some maps of religious groups in Leicester is quite telling).

The current problems of segregation-by-housing that blight most minority groups in inner-city areas, is largely a legacy of racist housing policies from local authorities over a period of decades (and in the case of East London, the brutal forced Gentrification of the LDDC and it's open abuse of complusory purchase orders).

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Don't be absurd; of course it's a race issue. The Asian groups that have had the worst time of it as far as segregation goes (Kashmiris, Gujaratis, Bangladeshis) all happen to be Muslim, but that they are all Muslim is not the reason for their problems with segregation.

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Only after about 100 or so years. The Anti-Irish vote in Northern England only started to decline in the '60's (and even the Protestants who didn't vote out of Anti-Irish prejudice were still very hostile to the Irish).

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I'm sorry, but is that a joke? West Indians and Africans are about as badly integrated as Kashmiris and Bangladeshis.

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They were better able to integrate, because society was more prepared to integrate them (o/c some of the groups you mentioned are certainly not integrated).

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US and THEM is perhaps not the best attitude to have if you care seriously about integration.

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It's easy and happens to be, partly, true. Of one sort of alienation; but no the sort of alienation that leads to terrorism. O/c the spectre of terrorism has nothing to do with the poorest sections of the various Muslim communities here; the background of the 7/7 attacks and the would-be-attackers recently has been overwhelmingly middle class.

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Actually the geninue, active, extremism that you are so worried about is almost exclusively an educated, middle class phenomenon. I say "almost" because a significant minority have also been converts to Islam (something that the media hasn't really picked up on much, but should have as it seems to be important).
It's a serious problem, and needs to be dealt with.

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Clearly all the people who seem to think that I'm a terrorist because I have a beard and darker skin then them are not at all racist or Islamophobic.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2006, 12:25:34 PM »


Good

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Not really; most of that has been more to do with worries over extremism, alienation and so on, rather than actual integration (even if the word has been used from time to time).
The issue of genuine integration (and not just of Muslims, but of all minorities) isn't something that gets discussed a lot, although IMO it should do.
The main problem as far as that goes is housing IMO; if people are physically segregated, they can easily become mentally segregated as well.

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Not always, no. Although the one often leads to the other.
But I think it's fair to call the reactions of a lot of people towards people who look like they might be Muslims, both racist and Islamophobic. It also happens to be completely irrational.

And while an extremist minority of Muslims and their actions are, and should be, a real concern, they aren't the only people we should be concerned about right now; A mosque got burned down in Basingstoke recently, and I think another was attacked in Chester. O/c the more of that sort of stuff there is, the more Muslims get alienated from the rest of society and etc...
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Filuwaúrdjan
Realpolitik
Atlas Institution
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Posts: 67,797
United Kingdom


« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2006, 01:51:25 PM »

Looking over the despatches poll again, I spotted a voting intentions question.
It including the usual assortment of don't knows, won't says and flat out wont's, but removing all those the sample size is still an acceptable 522.

Anyways, the figures with those that didn't name a party being removed are:

Labour 50.7%
LDems 23.2%
Tories  13.8%
Respect  6.1%
Greens   3.6%

Which fits in quite well with the overall pattern of wards with large Muslim populations in the recent local elections.
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Filuwaúrdjan
Realpolitik
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 67,797
United Kingdom


« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2006, 11:08:46 AM »

Multiculturalism = completely useless. Either let in and assimilate or don't let in ast all.

Go away, you're spoiling an interesting thread Angry

Yeah, he does that a lot. Best to just ignore him.
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