Hurricane Katrina: Political Aftermath

[minionofmidas]

I heard somewhere that when the french started the settlement of New Orleans the city was only 1 or 2 feet below sea level. After hurricane Betsey in the 1960s, the city flooded , promping the levves being installed. I heard somewhere that it is because of this that the city is now sinking even lower into the earth. You can read more into this if you want, I dont know if I myself believe such a story

Just read the article, it explains why that is indeed what you would expect to happen. (Although it musta begun way before Betsy.)

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

It goes back to the early 20th century and the efforts of A. Baldwin Wood.  It was thanks largely to him that New Orleans drained the swamps surrounding it and filled in the crescent that had given the city its mickname.  Of course, if you dry everything out, you get subsidence.  One side effect of this flooding will be a temporary reducion in the subsidence, and maybe even a small rise.

[minionofmidas]

This is true...unfortunately a *small* rise is not going to lift the city from the floor of Lake Pontchartrain.

Not all that horribly much seems to have been happening in the past 21 hours since I last was online. I'd have sure expected to either (less likely) see the flooding halted or (more likely) an airlift out for the people in the superdome begun by now.

[AuH2O]

It doesn't surprise me jfern is blaming Republicans for the storm-- presumably he feels the GOP was to blame for the Ice Age, when mankind had barely domesticated animals-- but the reality of the situation is that New Orleans and the state of Louisiana did a piss poor job of preparing for this kind of flooding scenario.

I mean, the whole country of Holland is threatened by floods on a yearly basis and has operated superb levees for centuries. How hard can it be?

[??????????]

This is true...unfortunately a *small* rise is not going to lift the city from the floor of Lake Pontchartrain.

Not all that horribly much seems to have been happening in the past 21 hours since I last was online. I'd have sure expected to either (less likely) see the flooding halted or (more likely) an airlift out for the people in the superdome begun by now.

They are going to start busing the people in the superdome out to the houston astrodome starting tomorrow.

[Keystone Phil]

Katrina voted for the $87 billion before she voted against it.

[Wakie]

I know we're all political animals here but really guys this isn't the time to be pointing fingers and laying blame.  There are thousands of people who are now homeless, hurt, unemployed, injured, dead, and/or just generally in a bad way.

Events like this really test what a place is made of.  Hopefully the people of New Orleans will step up to the challenge the same way that the people of NYC did after 9/11.

[ag]

So, while we are at it, why not have some foresight and remove cities from other disaster-in-waiting areas? Besides cities in flood zones, there are cities in earthquake zones. Anyone for removing LA and SF? A 9-pointer is pretty much inevitable in finite time there.  

[??????????]

So, while we are at it, why not have some foresight and remove cities from other disaster-in-waiting areas? Besides cities in flood zones, there are cities in earthquake zones. Anyone for removing LA and SF? A 9-pointer is pretty much inevitable in finite time there. 

Thats why the whole idea of doing such things are impractical.

[MODU]

Heard an interesting comment today which rang so true.  Last year, people we calling for the strategic oil reserve to be opened to lower the price at the pumps, despite critics saying that wouldn't nearly make the dent that it was hyped as providing.  Now, after the storm, if the reserves were opened last year or the beginning of this year, there would not be enough oil in this time of crisis.

[RBH]

Any chance of any political shifts for the Parishes hit due to people leaving permanently?

The odds that Orleans Parish goes 80-20 for the Dems soon are good (it was 75-25 for Kerry)

[Downwinder]

Of course now isn't the time to be pointing fingers.  But there is always political capital to be gained, or to be lost, even during the most horrible disasters.  File that under the 'sad but true' category.

My observations, so far:

Gov. Blanco and Sen. Landrieu were all over television yesterday.  Where was Sen. Vitter??  Was he just not invited?


I've heard many people ask already "Where's the National Guard?  Where's the Army??"  I've heard these questions in interviews from the region, and by people in Salt Lake City. 


President Bush was right next door in Texas on vacation, flew over the region on Air Force One to the safety of DC, where he assembled the Cabinet, and had a press conference!!  This makes perfect sense to many people, but many more people won't see this as an adequate, or compassionate, response.  He probably should have been flown in for a quick photo-op, to consol some refugees, and then been on his way to the White House.  (And before anyone says it, I agree now isn't the time for a presidential visit to the region that needs to focus on survival.  But that point of view doesn't always play out among the masses.)

Bush has also said some mindless comments:

“It’s devastating, it’s got to be doubly devastating on the ground” --aboard Air Force One

"We're dealing with one of the worst national disasters in our nation's history" --press conference


Of course, when I think he's being an idiot, other people think he's showing resolve or something, so what the hell do I really know about how people will react to Bush?

[minionofmidas]

I know we're all political animals here but really guys this isn't the time to be pointing fingers and laying blame.  There are thousands of people who are now homeless, hurt, unemployed, injured, dead, and/or just generally in a bad way.

Millions.

9/11 simply doesn't compare. 9/11 was a minor incident by comparison.

[socaldem]

I know we're all political animals here but really guys this isn't the time to be pointing fingers and laying blame.  There are thousands of people who are now homeless, hurt, unemployed, injured, dead, and/or just generally in a bad way.

Events like this really test what a place is made of.  Hopefully the people of New Orleans will step up to the challenge the same way that the people of NYC did after 9/11.

In retrospect, I kinda started the discussion in a bad way, but when I started it it wasnt at all clear that the worst had happened and that N.O. would flood...it just seemed like a rather large hurricane that MIGHT turn into a mega disaster....

Still, I still think that there are important political issues at stake here.  The federal government, imo, has a big role to play in aid in disaster relief and to support preventative measures (like the infrastructure repairs that the N.O. Times-Picuyne has noted on a number of occasions had been denied, partly because of the costs of war).  And if the government is going to play that role, tax levels are going to need to increase.

More broadly, the need for a government that can effectively work to prevent and to respond to disasters is illustrative, imo, of the broader need for competent governmental leadership in a number of areas including health care and responding to economic crises.  In fact, historically, disasters (like the Johnstown flood and others) have worked as a catalyst for a larger government role in many areas.  Certainly, the government may not do a good job in responding to natural disasters, healthcare or economic crises...but, imo, that is an indication that the government needs to try harder and refine its public administration rather than get out of business altogether as libertarians suggest... after all, if government is gutted beyond repair, how, pray tell, is society going to respond to such crises?  (

The same argument, imo, applies re the need for a robust govt able to deal with the challenge of terrorism)....

[Platypus]

careful Lewis

[minionofmidas]

careful Lewis

Compare the damage done. Compare the number of people affected. Compare the long-time ramifications (and no, only the inevitable ones. War on Terror doesn't count.)
As to the number of people killed, we don't know the truth yet, but I suppose they'll be essentially in the same league, so on that front, no, 9/11 was not a minor incident.

[MODU]

I would say 9/11 and New Orleans are ultimate catastrophies in different ways.  9/11 was a war-time attack which hit our economic system right at a vulnerable time when our economy was trying to come back from a recession.  This of course led to war.

New Orleans was a natural attack on the population, wiping a city off the map.  The people will be sent all over the US to start new homes and new lives (one of my friends made it to VA last night and have decided to stay up here and find a job rather than going back to Louisiana).  Outside of the port in New Orleans, the city will become nothing less than a mere shadow of it's former self.  It will not become the residential mecca for so many as in the past.

Body counts?  They'll probably be close to each other if the mayor of New Orleans is right about his projection.  Lasting economic effect?  About the same, since both will impact the economy on a national level.  However, they are two different tragedies affecting "life" in different ways.

[Ben.]

The Big Problem is that global factors mean this will, in all likelihood, happen again within the next decade… so do we rebuild or retreat?

Anything that is rebuilt stands a high risk of being under the same threat of near annihilation within the next ten years.

I honestly don’t think that rebuilding a conurbation of the same size as New Orleans was, is either sensible or practical.   

[MODU]

Nope, they should not attempt to rebuild New Orleans as it was.  Make it back into the port town that it historically was, but move most of the residential and tourism stuff away and to higher ground (where it should be).

[Ben.]

Nope, they should not attempt to rebuild New Orleans as it was.  Make it back into the port town that it historically was, but move most of the residential and tourism stuff away and to higher ground (where it should be).

That's what I was thinking, but didn't know how people might take it.

The old town and the working port can be saved and should be IMHO... but a conurbation of that size which is likely to be swept away again within the next ten years or so... its just not sensible IMHO and it would probably be best to move the residential areas inland onto higher ground… perhaps even as far a field as Baton Rouge way.     

[MODU]

The following is funny, but also very true, and I wish some people would actually follow the advice mentioned (requires audio.  Rated-R for language.):

"Hurricane Katrina Update"

Gotta love animated squirrels with smarts.

[KEmperor]

Nope, they should not attempt to rebuild New Orleans as it was.  Make it back into the port town that it historically was, but move most of the residential and tourism stuff away and to higher ground (where it should be).

That's what I was thinking, but didn't know how people might take it.

The old town and the working port can be saved and should be IMHO... but a conurbation of that size which is likely to be swept away again within the next ten years or so... its just not sensible IMHO and it would probably be best to move the residential areas inland onto higher ground… perhaps even as far a field as Baton Rouge way.     

You realize that all the tourism stuff is down in the Quarter?

[minionofmidas]

Nope, they should not attempt to rebuild New Orleans as it was.  Make it back into the port town that it historically was, but move most of the residential and tourism stuff away and to higher ground (where it should be).

That's what I was thinking, but didn't know how people might take it.

The old town and the working port can be saved and should be IMHO... but a conurbation of that size which is likely to be swept away again within the next ten years or so... its just not sensible IMHO and it would probably be best to move the residential areas inland onto higher ground… perhaps even as far a field as Baton Rouge way.     

You realize that all the tourism stuff is down in the Quarter?

Which is a good thing as that's one of the highest areas in the city...which is probably why it is the oldest part of the city.

[riceowl]

You gotta feel for the president when you realize that in his administration alone he's had both the worst interior attack and possibly the worst natural disaster of American History.

[TheresNoMoney]

You gotta feel for the president when you realize that in his administration alone he's had both the worst interior attack and possibly the worst natural disaster of American History.

He had the information to prevent one and help neutralize the other. 44% cut in spending for flood control in New Orleans.