Meanwhile in Belgium...

[StateBoiler]

The European Union is a crime against humanity.

All superstates that ignore regional concerns are.

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They can't constitutionally until 2011. There's also something about a bilingual constituency of Brussels and its suburbs that have to be split up, but the Walloons have not agreed to it unless they get something in return.


Four British-originated articles saying it might be time to call a day for the country.

Most interesting part in all of them: an idea for Brussels to become the European version of Washington, D.C.

http://www.economist.com/opinion/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9767681
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/politics/danielhannan/sep07/belgium-election.htm
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2007/09/08/dl0803.xml
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2409877.ece

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

The EU would be worse than the FedGov. The FedGov is restrained in theory at least if not practice by a constitution. The euros are used to despotic governments with no restraints so...

[freek]

Brussels seems to be the dilema in that although capital of Flanders, it's overwhelmingly Francophone. Does it have a lot of French-speaking indigenous Flemish for some reason?

Yes and No. Many Francophone inhabitants of Brussels and their suburbs have Flemish roots, their (grand)parents spoke the Brussels' (or some other town's) dialect of Dutch, although they usually never learnt 'standard' Dutch. Originally, Brussels is a Dutch-speaking city.

The (Francophone) Belgian elite saw the Dutch language as a 'peasant language' and tried after Belgian independence to 'Francophonify' the Dutch-speaking part of the population, essentially by giving them an inferiority complex. For example, Dutch-speaking parents speaking only French with their children and sending them to Francophone schools to give them a better future.

The Francophones were especially successful in the city of Brussels, where there was also an influx of Walloon civil servants and later of EU civil servants and North African immigrants. Usually, Francophone Flemish Belgians consider themselves Francophone, not Flemish.

Only since the beginning of the 20th century a counter-movement from Flemish side started, which finally culminated in the division of the country into all kinds of communities and regions, all with their own governments and parliaments. Also, more people from Brussels are bilingual French/Dutch now than in the last decades.

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Nope. And why should they? Apart from Limburg province, where the border was different, Flanders and The Netherlands are separated since the 16th century, only to be re-united in the United Kingdom of the Netherlands (1815-1830).

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Oh yes, they have 6 million inhabitants, when excluding Brussels. More than for example Norway, Finland, Ireland or Denmark. Since the Flemish economy is performing well, viability shouldn't be a problem.

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Good question. Although originally the Belgian monarchy was more popular in Catholic Flanders than Socialist Wallonia, now the situation is reversed. Although King Albert is quite popular, as was his late brother King Boudewijn, Albert's children are not. They speak Dutch with a strong French accent and many doubt if Crown Prince Filip has the intellectual capabilities for becoming King. Some scandals concerning Filip's younger brother Laurent didn't help. So, a Flanders Republic isn't unthinkable.

[freek]

They can't constitutionally until 2011. There's also something about a bilingual constituency of Brussels and its suburbs that have to be split up, but the Walloons have not agreed to it unless they get something in return.

There are no constitutional restrictions. There is however a ruling of the Constitutional Court concerning Brussel-Halle-Vilvoorde. The Wikipedia-article is quite informative: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussel-Halle-Vilvoorde

[Platypus]

Belgium will still be Belgium in ten years. In fifty, who knows.

[Јas]

Has a government been formed yet?
I had forgotten about this, but heard that the Belgian King is on a state visit here for a few days.

[minionofmidas]

No. Everybody is still pretending that Leterme has a mandate to form a government.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

No. Everybody is still pretending that Leterme has a mandate to form a government.

How long before reality sets in?

[StateBoiler]

60 to 90 days.

[Hash]

Has a government been formed yet?

[Verily]

No. Furthermore, they're back to the farcical idea that Leterme should be the one negotiating.

[Hash]

When will people really start to be pissed and it will be violent?

[opebo]

This is good news because of the trouble that the EU may have, their capital being within Flanders, but not in Flanders.  I agree completely with Lance. I hope the euro currency and the EU fall far through.  One euro at $1.10 in two years, most other currencies worth more or less the same.  I hope for an independent Flanders; totally independent, not just an EU state.

I'm not sure why you have these strange foreign exchange fantasies, but if we get back to $1.10 to the yugo in two years, I'll eat my hat.

[Verily]

When will people really start to be pissed and it will be violent?

Violent? Probably not ever. Eventually Flanders will declare independence and that will be that.

[afleitch]

When will people really start to be pissed and it will be violent?

Violent? Probably not ever. Eventually Flanders will declare independence and that will be that.

And they say the nation-state isn't important these days

[Hash]

I actually support Flemish independence now after hearing the "horror-stories" of Belgian governmental infrastructure.

[Verily]

I actually support Flemish independence now after hearing the "horror-stories" of Belgian governmental infrastructure.

Which is ironic, given that the entire system was originally put into place to appease the Flemish. (Now, of course, it's the Walloons who don't want change.)

[Filuwaúrdjan]

When will people really start to be pissed and it will be violent?

Violent? Probably not ever. Eventually Flanders will declare independence and that will be that.

What, without Brussels? No chance.

[Јas]

International Herald Tribune:
Belgium in deep political crisis as government talks collapse

"Belgium slumped into one of the deepest political crises in 50 years on Wednesday when coalition talks between Flemish and Francophone parties collapsed under the weight of incessant recriminations between leaders of the language groups.

After a record 150 days without government, Flemish parties worsened the situation by using their majority electoral clout in parliament to vote for the carve-up of a bilingual electoral district in and around Brussels.

They did so for the first time in many decades, and against the wishes of their Francophone counterparts, effectively ditching a long tradition of consensus politics.

....

Late Tuesday, government negotiator Yves Leterme put forward a compromise to Christian Democrat and Liberal parties from both sides of the language border that slices Belgium into Flanders in the north and Francophone Wallonia in the south.

Flemish negotiators accepted the plan as a basis for more talks on the language rights in and around bilingual Brussels, but their Francophone counterparts rejected it, saying it would effectively bar French-speakers from voting for Francophone parties in a Flemish area around Brussels. ...."

[Verily]

Just wondering, does any particular francophone party have a vested interest in those voters? I would guess by the fact that they're suburban than the Liberals are especially reluctant to let them go, which would help to explain why they've been unwilling to form a government without the Social Democrats (which otherwise has confused me).

[Hash]

I don't understand why the Flemish douchebag parties are doing this when they need to form a government.

[Verily]

I don't understand why the Flemish douchebag parties are doing this when they need to form a government.

Because Leterme doesn't really want to form a government, he wants Flemish independence. He's not exactly a nice guy.

[Verily]

The King has stepped in to make Leterme play nice, and of course Leterme refused.

More clarification: CD&V and N-VA have refused to take state reform off of the table despite the king's request. Vlaams Belang obviously will not negotiate with anyone without promises of heavy state reform.

[Hash]

To think that this is in Europe, not a Banana Republic...

[minionofmidas]

To think that this is in Europe, not a Banana Republic...

Not a contradiction. Look at Poland Italy Serbia.