Egypt opens its border with Palestine, breaking the siege of Gaza

[ag]

Sunday?  first, my girlfriend was observing the Jewish Sabbath from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday....and I've never considered Sunday a Sabbath..

The capital crime is to celebrate anything that's like a Jewish Sabbath: very much like in the moderate gay marriage debate )) A gentile is not supposed to rest every 7 days. Though, there is an exception for those, who, without fully converting, renounce their false beliefs: if you renounce Jesus Christ, you still might avoid being stoned.

Though, of course, it has long been conceded that in the current sad circumstances the proper punishments can't be effected )))

[danny]

and you might was well stop trying to shake me up, I'm shake proof.  

My dear jmfsct ) I am not trying to shake you up - I am just mightily amused ))

Though, of course, it is a useful point to make that from the Israeli standpoint you are a tribal enemy, but a useful fool at the same time. Just so that you understand Israelis better, when you encounter them.

I know, you don't care - you do this because of your Faith. Since I am a non-believer, I am quite ok w/ that, as you can imagine )))))) In fact, if anything, I prefer your godly selflessness to Israeli tribalism. But the way you go about this is still mightily amusing ))))

Most Israelis would certainly not consider jmfsct an enemy. Israel has enough real enemy's, an Israel supporting Christian isn't one of them.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

and you might was well stop trying to shake me up, I'm shake proof.  

My dear jmfsct ) I am not trying to shake you up - I am just mightily amused ))

Though, of course, it is a useful point to make that from the Israeli standpoint you are a tribal enemy, but a useful fool at the same time. Just so that you understand Israelis better, when you encounter them.

I know, you don't care - you do this because of your Faith. Since I am a non-believer, I am quite ok w/ that, as you can imagine )))))) In fact, if anything, I prefer your godly selflessness to Israeli tribalism. But the way you go about this is still mightily amusing ))))

well, you have the luxury to be amused, because it was people like me whose Faith taught them to allow others to believe what they wished to believe, and it was people like me who learned the lessons which history taught regarding the dangers of state run religion, which formulated the constitution of this country and brought you the religous freedom not to believe.

So, you should pay attention to history and recognize religious tyranny when you see it, and make sure that you dont embrace it by throwing your support behind those who are willing to kill others simply because they refuse to convert....because religious tyranny does NOT recognize borders and will attempt to spread its tyranny to the whole world.

[danny]

Sunday?  first, my girlfriend was observing the Jewish Sabbath from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday....and I've never considered Sunday a Sabbath..

The capital crime is to celebrate anything that's like a Jewish Sabbath: very much like in the moderate gay marriage debate )) A gentile is not supposed to rest every 7 days. Though, there is an exception for those, who, without fully converting, renounce their false beliefs: if you renounce Jesus Christ, you still might avoid being stoned.

Though, of course, it has long been conceded that in the current sad circumstances the proper punishments can't be effected )))

Come on, no one really goes around advocating the death penalty for a religious crime anymore, much less a goy from a goy country which is just ludicrous and something that no one ever did.

[Liberté]

Come on, no one really goes around advocating the death penalty for a religious crime anymore, much less a goy from a goy country which is just ludicrous and something that no one ever did.

Ag isn't lying. While the punishments under Orthodox Judaism are obviously not meted out any longer, they remain on the books. And if civilization were to fall back to the Dark Ages, they'd probably come back into practice.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Come on, no one really goes around advocating the death penalty for a religious crime anymore, much less a goy from a goy country which is just ludicrous and something that no one ever did.

Ag isn't lying. While the punishments under Orthodox Judaism are obviously not meted out any longer, they remain on the books. And if civilization were to fall back to the Dark Ages, they'd probably come back into practice.

are you saying the Jews would force nonJews to follow Judaism?  that was never the case throughout Israel's biblically recorded history.  In fact, the Muslims and Christians living in Israeli today are the most free Muslims and Christians in all the middle east.

[Liberté]

are you saying the Jews would force nonJews to follow Judaism?  that was never the case throughout Israel's biblically recorded history.

Well, no. They simply purged the lands they conquered.

I'm saying that Orthodox Jews would probably resume executing other Orthodox Jews for religious sin.

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Which has nothing to do with constant international pressure on them. Nothing at all.

[ag]

are you saying the Jews would force nonJews to follow Judaism?

No, the non-Jews shouldn't follow Judaism. It's enough that they renounce their false believes and in exchange they would be given a semi-decent treatment and even allowed to celebrate some Jewish holidays. They wouldn't be Jews, though. But renouncing Christ would be essential (interestingly enough, no need to renounce Muhammad - Muslims are monotheist, no problem).

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

danny, certain people hate Israel simply because it is God's chosen nation.  dont try to make sense of their hatred, they will always have some excuse.  the only way you could appease them is if you dropped dead.

there are only two major countries in this world that understand the dangers of Islam, and those are Israel and India.  America also did at one time, but America has become too politically correct to be able to see straight.

[ag]

Come on, no one really goes around advocating the death penalty for a religious crime anymore, much less a goy from a goy country which is just ludicrous and something that no one ever did.

Such are the sad times in which we live, that following the Law might be prejudicial to the Jews. So, of course, even though the Law is unambiguous - jmfct must be stoned - this shouldn't be done, as it would be bad for the Jews, and jmfcst isn't worth it. But times may change ))

Of course, you consider that to be nonsense - and you are right. But for a Jewish counterpart of jmfct it is not.

[danny]

Come on, no one really goes around advocating the death penalty for a religious crime anymore, much less a goy from a goy country which is just ludicrous and something that no one ever did.

Ag isn't lying. While the punishments under Orthodox Judaism are obviously not meted out any longer, they remain on the books. And if civilization were to fall back to the Dark Ages, they'd probably come back into practice.

Of course as long as they don't change the bible the laws will remain on the books. But that's not very meaningful. What is meaningful is what people say should be done in practice  and how they act, people can interpret the books any way they like.

[Liberté]

danny, certain people hate Israel simply because it is God's chosen nation.  dont try to make sense of their hatred, they will always have some excuse.  the only way you could appease them is if you dropped dead.

there are only two major countries in this world that understand the dangers of Islam, and those are Israel and India.  America also did at one time, but America has become too politically correct to be able to see straight.

Unbelievable.

Unbelievable.

Other hawks on Israel will admit that our support for them ultimately has to do with American national interest (as they - wrongly - define it). Not this guy. He lives in the world of the spiritual; his feet have long since left contact with the Earth. It seems that the material conditions of reality must give way, for him, to the ephemeral material of the holy.

I'm done.

[ag]

danny, certain people hate Israel simply because it is God's chosen nation.  

Danny is that very type of a secular but sectarian Jew we've been discussing. He couldn't care less about the religion bullsh**t, so he is content w/ having the great rabbis determine what Judaism is - as long as nobody gives a damn about what they say.

[ag]

Of course as long as they don't change the bible the laws will remain on the books. But that's not very meaningful. What is meaningful is what people say should be done in practice  and how they act, people can interpret the books any way they like.

Thank you! You provide a wonderful illustration to our chat w/ jmfsct )))

The problem is: he takes (his own) Law deadly seriously. When Israel wins, the rapture will happen and all Jews will convert (or perish).

[ag]

Most Israelis would certainly not consider jmfsct an enemy. Israel has enough real enemy's, an Israel supporting Christian isn't one of them.

He is not, by any means, an enemy of Israel. He is merely an enemy of the Jews - that's not the same thing ))

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

are you saying the Jews would force nonJews to follow Judaism?  that was never the case throughout Israel's biblically recorded history.

Well, no. They simply purged the lands they conquered.

in any case the purge was limited in geographical scope, it did not and does not threaten the whole world.

---

I'm saying that Orthodox Jews would probably resume executing other Orthodox Jews for religious sin.

 without a temple?

[ag]

without a temple?

Oh, the temple would be rebuilt, no problem ) Though, in any case, even if it weren't, as long as it could be done without endangering Jews, it would be done.

Now, mind it. Overwhelming majority of Israelis wouldn't want to do it, of course: because they don't care the sh**t about religion. Israeli nationalism is, mostly, secular, and, at least originally, was fairly anti-religious. But your counterparts among the Jews - that's quite another matter ))

[danny]

are you saying the Jews would force nonJews to follow Judaism?  that was never the case throughout Israel's biblically recorded history.

Well, no. They simply purged the lands they conquered.

I'm saying that Orthodox Jews would probably resume executing other Orthodox Jews for religious sin.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Which has nothing to do with constant international pressure on them. Nothing at all.

What international pressure? The international community likes to pressure Israel a lot, but never about Arab Israelis.

[ag]

What international pressure? The international community likes to pressure Israel a lot, but never about Arab Israelis.

And rightly so: Israel is (still?) a democracy within its own borders, with the due process available internally. As long as that remains the case, these things remain internal affairs of Israel.

Though, having said that, whatever I've heard about the life of Israeli Arabs makes this ex-Soviet Jew think they are the true Jews of Israel ))

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Of course as long as they don't change the bible the laws will remain on the books. But that's not very meaningful. What is meaningful is what people say should be done in practice  and how they act, people can interpret the books any way they like.

Thank you! You provide a wonderful illustration to our chat w/ jmfsct )))

those laws are only for the promised land, they do not threaten anyone outside of that land.  And those laws arent even en force.

---

The problem is: he takes (his own) Law deadly seriously. When Israel wins, the rapture will happen and all Jews will convert (or perish).

I can see we are going to have to go through this about 200 more times:

1) the rapture does NOT occur when Israel wins, rather it occurs when Israel is gravely wounded by other nations and is about to wiped from the face of the earth = "the time of Jacob's troubles".

2) the destruction of the nonChristians is NOT focused solely on Jews, rather anyone, Jewish or Gentile, that doesnt believe in Christ will be condemned.  But right before Christ returns, he's going to allow at least 144k Jews to realize their error and come to Christ.

But that is not an issue between me and Jews for today.  As for my actions, I will continue to bless Israel and allow God to deal with Israel.  I am NOT God's agent of wrath against Israel.  And anyone that attempts to harm Israel will be destoyed.

So, it doesnt matter what my religious differences are with the Jews, Israel is God's anointed, therefore I do not dare raise a hand against them.  Nor are they any threat to me, since I am not attempting to live in their God-given land.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

He is not, by any means, an enemy of Israel. He is merely an enemy of the Jews - that's not the same thing ))

danny, can you now see that you're not even the real target of this conversation?  rather it is I who is the target.

[danny]

What international pressure? The international community likes to pressure Israel a lot, but never about Arab Israelis.

And rightly so: Israel is (still?) a democracy within its own borders, with the due process available internally. As long as that remains the case, these things remain internal affairs of Israel.

Though, having said that, whatever I've heard about the life of Israeli Arabs makes this ex-Soviet Jew think they are the true Jews of Israel ))

Good, so you agree that Israel grants rights to Arabs because it's a democracy that grants rights to all its citizens because that is the kind of country it is and not because of any international pressure.

What about the life of Arab Israelis have you heard? because while I'm sure it isn't perfect, I don't think there is anything terrible about it.

[Liberté]

Good, so you agree that Israel grants rights to Arabs because it's a democracy that grants rights to all its citizens because that is the kind of country it is and not because of any international pressure.

No country, democratic or otherwise, European 'liberal' or Arabian 'socialist', simply 'grants' 'rights' from the goodness of its collective heart. Rights are fought for every day; they are won from the struggle for existence within society.

Israel doesn't grant rights at all. Israel likes to pump raw sewage into Palestinian settlements. Don't believe me? Watch the video.

[danny]

He is not, by any means, an enemy of Israel. He is merely an enemy of the Jews - that's not the same thing ))

danny, can you now see that you're not even the real target of this conversation?  rather it is I who is the target.

Regardless of who is the target, he said that most Israelis would view you as an enemy, I thought that wasn't true so I said so. Although I thought of it as an accusation that most Israelis think of non-Jews as enemy's.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

He is not, by any means, an enemy of Israel. He is merely an enemy of the Jews - that's not the same thing ))

danny, can you now see that you're not even the real target of this conversation?  rather it is I who is the target.

Regardless of who is the target, he said that most Israelis would view you as an enemy, I thought that wasn't true so I said so. Although I thought of it as an accusation that most Israelis think of non-Jews as enemy's.

no, rather he is attempting to put a wedge between you and me