Glenn Beck now favors gay marriage

[SPC]

I hate, hate, hate the obsession over the word "libertarian."  It's such a clusterf*&).

Unlike "conservative" you can't, in American discourse at least, refer to yourself as a "moderate Libertarian.  Everyone is OCD about the word.  Many of the youngin' Libs on this board seem terribly preoccupied in determining who can and cannot claim to be members of their club.  It really doesn't make all that much sense, considering that there are libertarian-leaning parts of the electorate that don't meet rigid binary definitions, let alone realize that the word "libertarian" may even apply to them.  Not to mention that among the hyper-political, the club is pretty diverse and nonsensical, ranging from Beck to Paul.

I wrote a thread about it a couple days ago but I deleted the thread before I posted it because I know that any discussion of the term would result in horrible awfulness.  And I don't want to interfere with people being trendy.

I suppose it had more to do with the fact that libertarianism is a strict ideology compared to liberalism and conservatism. Whereas the latter two ideologies want to use the state for their own purposes, the libertarians want to minimize the role of the state. To be a "moderate" libertarian is like calling someone a "moderate" atheist.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Who ever said BillO and Beck were Christians?  I remember hearing BillO claim that the only parts of the bible that were the word of God were the letters in red.  I knew right then and there he wasn't a Christian

[Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook]

Who ever said BillO and Beck were Christians?  I remember hearing BillO claim that the only parts of the bible that were the word of God were the letters in red.  I knew right then and there he wasn't a Christian

Some people have a very board definition of Christian. Even some people who don't believe in the Bible at all are called Christians.

[Earth]

Who ever said BillO and Beck were Christians?  I remember hearing BillO claim that the only parts of the bible that were the word of God were the letters in red.  I knew right then and there he wasn't a Christian

You know you don't have to throw out the baby with the (baptismal) bathwater?

Beck can be a Christian, and still be a bad representative of such an ideology. His idiocy doesn't negate his Christian belief.

[Lunar]

I hate, hate, hate the obsession over the word "libertarian."  It's such a clusterf*&).

Unlike "conservative" you can't, in American discourse at least, refer to yourself as a "moderate Libertarian.  Everyone is OCD about the word.  Many of the youngin' Libs on this board seem terribly preoccupied in determining who can and cannot claim to be members of their club.  It really doesn't make all that much sense, considering that there are libertarian-leaning parts of the electorate that don't meet rigid binary definitions, let alone realize that the word "libertarian" may even apply to them.  Not to mention that among the hyper-political, the club is pretty diverse and nonsensical, ranging from Beck to Paul.

I wrote a thread about it a couple days ago but I deleted the thread before I posted it because I know that any discussion of the term would result in horrible awfulness.  And I don't want to interfere with people being trendy.

I suppose it had more to do with the fact that libertarianism is a strict ideology compared to liberalism and conservatism. Whereas the latter two ideologies want to use the state for their own purposes, the libertarians want to minimize the role of the state. To be a "moderate" libertarian is like calling someone a "moderate" atheist.

See, that's exactly the problem.  You don't seem to understand that there is such a a thing as a moderate libertarian, which only require a libertarian who is pragmatic with political and institutional realities, not to mention socially liberal, economically conservative types, say, business owners on Wall Street, who don't subscribe to "the state=evil" ideology, but would certainly be libertarian on the 'ole matrix score

Instead, you take the binary view.  You have to be Libertarian 100%,  which you, and I'm not exaggerating here, compare to believing in God or not believing in God

[Lunar]

Who ever said BillO and Beck were Christians?  I remember hearing BillO claim that the only parts of the bible that were the word of God were the letters in red.  I knew right then and there he wasn't a Christian

Beck's a converted Mormon, so I'm pretty sure that means he's going to hell in your book.  Anyway, moving on.

[SPC]

I hate, hate, hate the obsession over the word "libertarian."  It's such a clusterf*&).

Unlike "conservative" you can't, in American discourse at least, refer to yourself as a "moderate Libertarian.  Everyone is OCD about the word.  Many of the youngin' Libs on this board seem terribly preoccupied in determining who can and cannot claim to be members of their club.  It really doesn't make all that much sense, considering that there are libertarian-leaning parts of the electorate that don't meet rigid binary definitions, let alone realize that the word "libertarian" may even apply to them.  Not to mention that among the hyper-political, the club is pretty diverse and nonsensical, ranging from Beck to Paul.

I wrote a thread about it a couple days ago but I deleted the thread before I posted it because I know that any discussion of the term would result in horrible awfulness.  And I don't want to interfere with people being trendy.

I suppose it had more to do with the fact that libertarianism is a strict ideology compared to liberalism and conservatism. Whereas the latter two ideologies want to use the state for their own purposes, the libertarians want to minimize the role of the state. To be a "moderate" libertarian is like calling someone a "moderate" atheist.

See, that's exactly the problem.  You don't seem to understand that there is such a a thing as a moderate libertarian, which only require a libertarian who is pragmatic with political and institutional realities, not to mention socially liberal, economically conservative types, say, business owners on Wall Street, who don't subscribe to "the state=evil" ideology, but would certainly be libertarian on the 'ole matrix score

Instead, you take the binary view.  You have to be Libertarian 100%,  which you, and I'm not exaggerating here, compare to believing in God or not believing in God

No, I am comparing flavors of statism to believing in religion. That's an analogy. The problem with your "moderate libertarian" definition is that people who are as far from libertarian in attitude as physically possible (i.e. Rudy Giuliani, Michael Bloomberg, Bill Weld, Colin Powell, Nelson Rockefeller) get classified as "libertarian" under the "fiscally conservative, socially liberal" definition. By the way, when you speak of Wall Street business owners, are you exempting those that accepted government bailout money?

[tpfkaw]

I always considered Bill Weld to be a pretty Libertarian individual - he's one of my major influences. He even briefly had the Libertarian ballot line in New York (the only time they ever even attempted to take advantage of NY's fusion ballot) when he tried to run for governor there.

[Lunar]

eh... again, the obsession over this word.  Like, look how you need to put the phrase moderate libertarian into quotation marks.  Like, there is no legitimate ability to such thing to exist.  And again with the religion comparison.  You know you're out of touch with America when you start directly equating the two, heh

I mean, sheesh, the Wall Street thing was just to aid for visualization purposes.  Obviously wealthy people who work on Wall Street are going to favor policies that favor them.

Does Libertarianism have to equal absolutism to the ideals that you construe to define Libertarianism?  Why can't it mean something slightly less?  Does socialism only apply to politicians and voters who absolutely 100% adhere to certain principles, or is there middle ground?  What about authoritarianism?  Is Libertarian just a magic word that automatically implies absolutism?

[Vepres]

eh... again, the obsession over this word.  Like, look how you need to put the phrase moderate libertarian into quotation marks.  Like, there is no legitimate ability to such thing to exist.  And again with the religion comparison.  You know you're out of touch with America when you start directly equating the two, heh

I mean, sheesh, the Wall Street thing was just to aid for visualization purposes.  Obviously wealthy people who work on Wall Street are going to favor policies that favor them.

Does Libertarianism have to equal absolutism to the ideals that you construe to define Libertarianism?  Why can't it mean something slightly less?  Does socialism only apply to politicians and voters who absolutely 100% adhere to certain principles, or is there middle ground?  What about authoritarianism?  Is Libertarian just a magic word that automatically implies absolutism?

This attitude really frustrates me about libertarians. I consider myself a moderate libertarian, yet I would be an outsider in the modern "libertarian movement".

[tpfkaw]

ITT: Cosmo/Paleo disagreement.

[Lunar]

This attitude really frustrates me about libertarians. I consider myself a moderate libertarian,

I know of plenty of people whom I'd describe this way, but I've never seen someone use this expression before.  Is that an identifier you really use, and if so, why?  #justinterested

[??????????]

Even some people who don't believe in the Bible at all are called Christians.

How exactly does that work?

[Lunar]

Even some people who don't believe in the Bible at all are called Christians.

How exactly does that work?

In America, there's no official regulatory agency that determines who is authentically Christian or not.  You can call yourself anything you want to be.

[??????????]

Even some people who don't believe in the Bible at all are called Christians.

How exactly does that work?

In America, there's no official regulatory agency that determines who is authentically Christian or not.  You can call yourself anything you want to be.

Ok, I'm a liberal then.. hey, it's America!

[Zarn]

I call myself libertarian, and I'm pro-life. My libertarianism stems from my anti-death penalty, non-Muslim hating/ free religion, anti-excessive drug law, pro-homosexual marriage/ pro-homosexual rights, anti-mommy (welfare) and daddy (vigilance/ power of personality) state views. I'm sure I'm forgetting a lot of things. My pro-life stance is not based upon religion. The Pope has zero influence on whether I am pro-life or not, unless perhaps he would make an argument as individual and not the Pope.

To say I was conservative would be silly. If my views were mapped out on a grid (and they were more than enough times), I would be in the libertarian quadrant. So, I'm simply libertarian.

[SPC]

I call myself libertarian, and I'm pro-life. My libertarianism stems from my anti-death penalty, non-Muslim hating/ free religion, anti-excessive drug law, pro-homosexual marriage/ pro-homosexual rights, anti-mommy (welfare) and daddy (vigilance/ power of personality) state views. I'm sure I'm forgetting a lot of things. My pro-life stance is not based upon religion. The Pope has zero influence on whether I am pro-life or not, unless perhaps he would make an argument as individual and not the Pope.

To say I was conservative would be silly. If my views were mapped out on a grid (and they were more than enough times), I would be in the libertarian quadrant. So, I'm simply libertarian.

I wouldn't doubt that you are a libertarian, given that you are admittedly anti-statist.

[Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook]

Even some people who don't believe in the Bible at all are called Christians.

How exactly does that work?

I forget the name of the group, but they only believe the Bible as a metaphor for other things. They believe it can apply to our lives, so that's probably what makes them Christians.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Even some people who don't believe in the Bible at all are called Christians.

How exactly does that work?

illogically

[Earth]

Even some people who don't believe in the Bible at all are called Christians.

How exactly does that work?

I forget the name of the group, but they only believe the Bible as a metaphor for other things. They believe it can apply to our lives, so that's probably what makes them Christians.

I think you mean moderate, level headed Christians?

[Zarn]

Christianity is based upon the Abrahamic God and Jesus, not the Bible. It cannot even be said that it is based upon the Trinity, since there are Christians who do not have mainstream views on it.

[??????????]

Christianity is based upon the Abrahamic God and Jesus, not the Bible. It cannot even be said that it is based upon the Trinity, since there are Christians who do not have mainstream views on it.

Taking the bible out is like taking the flour out of bread.

[Zarn]

Christianity is based upon the Abrahamic God and Jesus, not the Bible. It cannot even be said that it is based upon the Trinity, since there are Christians who do not have mainstream views on it.

Taking the bible out is like taking the flour out of bread.

You must not be Catholic.

[??????????]

Christianity is based upon the Abrahamic God and Jesus, not the Bible. It cannot even be said that it is based upon the Trinity, since there are Christians who do not have mainstream views on it.

Taking the bible out is like taking the flour out of bread.

You must not be Catholic.

No I am but I don't completely buy the bible is a metaphor line.

[Zarn]

Christianity is based upon the Abrahamic God and Jesus, not the Bible. It cannot even be said that it is based upon the Trinity, since there are Christians who do not have mainstream views on it.

Taking the bible out is like taking the flour out of bread.

You must not be Catholic.

No I am but I don't completely buy the bible is a metaphor line.

Good for you, but you clearly then cannot speak for all Christians on the Bible.