Bush vs. the left on Islam

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Bush is far more pro-Islam than any leftist. He has said the term "Religion of Peace" far more than anyone else. Bush has met with many prominent Islamic leaders from both the US and Middle East. Bush is friendly with almost all Islamic countries, the only Muslim country not on good terms with the Bush admin now is Iran. And the Bush admin rolled over on the issue of Islam in the Iraqi Constitution.

When has Bush EVER been criticial of Islam?

The fact is, the left is far more anti-Islam than Bush.

[MODU]

Why should he be critical of Islam?  That's like asking why he isn't critical on Judaism or Buddhism.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Because right wingers (like dazzleman) keep claiming that the left is always defends Islam and it's PC to claim that Islam can never be criticized, but what actually happens claims to the contrary.

[MODU]

Well, that's just one person's view on the issue, much like mine is.  Islam is not bad, no matter what people claim.  Now, a select few who commit crimes in the name of Islam are.  There is a big difference between the culture and the individual.

[??????????]

MODU,

The whole Islamic "culture" is rife with violence towards women, children, jews and various other non-believers. The whole 'religion' was founded by a man who was a pedophile and poligamizer. Ever since its inception Islams goal has been regional conquest with the future goal of conquest of Europe mainly. The only way this 'religion' has any hope of getting better is to modernize a bit or for this 'religion' to be thrown into the dustbin of history.

[angus]

The fact is, the left is far more anti-Islam than Bush.

of course it is.  and more anti-christian.  and more anti-jew.  and more anti-hindu.  more anti-religion in general.  why they have chosen this path, I don't know.  but as a political strategy it has been a failure.  granted, these faith-based initiatives are a bit controversial, and I'm not sure weakening the separation between church and state is healthy for society, but beyond that, it's possible to be completely uninvolved in religion personally, but not to be an outright bigot toward them.  muslims or anyone else, for that matter.  I agree that Bush has not been particularly critical of Islam.  And I admire him for that, since it would only worsen the view in the muslim world of the Great Satan.  Let's hope his successor, whomever it may be, will not be critical of religion either.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

angus, while that may apply to some such as opebo, it obviously does not to me, since I'm Christian.

[MODU]

MODU,

The whole Islamic "culture" is rife with violence towards women, children, jews and various other non-believers. The whole 'religion' was founded by a man who was a pedophile and poligamizer. Ever since its inception Islams goal has been regional conquest with the future goal of conquest of Europe mainly. The only way this 'religion' has any hope of getting better is to modernize a bit or for this 'religion' to be thrown into the dustbin of history.

Yet most of the hardcore elements of Islam are not practiced or followed by the majority, such as a lot of the hardcore Jewish and Christian elements.  The unfortunate thing is that most of the people in the West are only exposed to Islam through the news or through horror stories.  In real life, that's a near 180 from what the majority of Islamics believe or practice/approve of.

[??????????]

MODU,

The whole Islamic "culture" is rife with violence towards women, children, jews and various other non-believers. The whole 'religion' was founded by a man who was a pedophile and poligamizer. Ever since its inception Islams goal has been regional conquest with the future goal of conquest of Europe mainly. The only way this 'religion' has any hope of getting better is to modernize a bit or for this 'religion' to be thrown into the dustbin of history.

Yet most of the hardcore elements of Islam are not practiced or followed by the majority, such as a lot of the hardcore Jewish and Christian elements.  The unfortunate thing is that most of the people in the West are only exposed to Islam through the news or through horror stories.  In real life, that's a near 180 from what the majority of Islamics believe or practice/approve of.

Well a great many of my family came from the region of the world now known as the "west bank". And they can attest to the fact that both Islam and Judiasm had their violent elements. Israel in its early days was very very violent to those who lived on "their" land but the Islamics living there aren't much better either. Both sides have run off all the moderates and now all thats left is extremists killing each other off.

[phk]

From www.MuslimsForBush.com

A VIBRANT FAITH

“Islam is a vibrant faith. Millions of our fellow citizens are Muslim. We respect the faith. We honor its traditions.”

- President Bush, October 11, 2002

911 – BUSH DEFENDS MUSLIMS

Shortly after September 11th 2001, a horrible day for all, President Bush swiftly defended the religion of Islam, in calling it a religion that is “peaceful.”

President Bush's Roundtable with Muslim Leaders -

"All Americans must recognize that the face of terror is not the true faith -- face of Islam. Islam is a faith that brings comfort to a billion people around the world. It's a faith that has made brothers and sisters of every race. It's a faith based upon love, not hate."

- President Bush,
September 10th, 2002

President Bush's Eid Iftaar Dinner

“The charity, discipline and sacrifice practiced during Ramadan in America makes America a better, more compassionate country….And the heartfelt prayers offered at this time of year are a blessing in many lives and they're a blessing to our nation.”

- President Bush, October 28th, 2003

[Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon]

Bush is pro-human.  Bush supports Muslims who agree with democracy and human rights.

The left is simply for any revolutionary movement that opposes democracy, human rights, and western civilization.

[Speed of Sound]

Id say im friendlier to Islam than Bush is, but many leftists have this unusaul dislike for Islam (which is wierd because of the 'everyones equal' thing they like to preach) overal, id say its a tie.

[phk]

Id say im friendlier to Islam than Bush is, but many leftists have this unusaul dislike for Islam (which is wierd because of the 'everyones equal' thing they like to preach) overal, id say its a tie.

Islam is quite an outright anti-Leftist/Western religion.

[Speed of Sound]

Id say im friendlier to Islam than Bush is, but many leftists have this unusaul dislike for Islam (which is wierd because of the 'everyones equal' thing they like to preach) overal, id say its a tie.

Islam is quite an outright anti-Leftist/Western religion.

doesnt mean i dont support their right to preach it. Some of my best friends are anti-leftist. I dont care.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

 

Bush is pro-human. Bush supports Muslims who agree with democracy and human rights.

You mean like the Saudis? Yeah, they're really big on democracy and human rights.

The left is simply for any revolutionary movement that opposes democracy, human rights, and western civilization.

False. I basically support any revolutionary movement that's leftist, or Christian if it's in a country where such a movement is needed (such as Sudan and Lebanon). These movements are definately for democracy, human rights and western civilization, at least moreso than who they fight. The Lebanese were right to kick the Syrians out because it's better for the Christians, and the Christians in Sudan are right to fight the evil anti-Christian regime. I also support any leftist movement against any right wing regime, such as the FMLN and the Guatemalan group in my sig, although those were mostly in the 80s and few are around now. They were also for democracy and human rights in comparison to the awful regimes they were fighting.

Id say im friendlier to Islam than Bush is, but many leftists have this unusaul dislike for Islam (which is wierd because of the 'everyones equal' thing they like to preach) overal, id say its a tie.

Islam is quite an outright anti-Leftist/Western religion.

doesnt mean i dont support their right to preach it. Some of my best friends are anti-leftist. I dont care.

They have a right to preach it, but that doesn't mean we have to support it.

My attitude on Islam is largely the same as fundamentalist Christianity, such as the crap Robertson and Falwell preach. Islam is quite a repressive religion if you look at its effects in the countries it's in. Now if you look at the Christians in predominately Muslim countries, they are far more progressive, and largely produce the alcohol and porn there. It's easy to see why I thus have a dim view of Islam. Sure I agree with the "everyone's equal" deal, but Islam obvious doesn't if you look at its treatment of women.

[Citizen James]

Bush is pro-human.  Bush supports Muslims who agree with democracy and human rights.

The left is simply for any revolutionary movement that opposes democracy, human rights, and western civilization.

Yanno, it always amazes me how someone can say something so intelegent and sensible, then turn around in the next line and say something completely brain dead.

I absolutely agree with your first paragraph.   I think many Dems also support Muslims who agree with democracy and human rights.

The difference lies in beliefs as to how to encourage democracy, human rights, and western values.

The left/right spectrum is fairly useless in this regard, as opinions of hardcore conservatives range from the  isolationism of many paleoconservatives (take care of our own and let the other nations work things out for themselves), to the nearly Maoist attitude of neoconservatives (political power comes out of the barrel of a gun.)

Now the closest thing I could see to a 'far left' position would be the whole 'bomb them with butter' idea.   Something of a hippy fantasy, the idea there is that if we give them the resources they need to survive, and teach them about democracy, they'll eventually come around.  Not quite as insane as 'they'll love us if we kill enough of them', and nowhere near as insane as the hintings of genocide that some of the folks at the more authoritarian end of the spectrum keep hinting at, but not really practical or effective either.

Pragmatists, or 'moderates' of a variety of stripes tend to focus on a variety of methods - using both carrot and stick as needed to encourage and discourage various developments.  Set up a system of free elections and get better trade deals.  Turn a blind eye to terrorists training in your wilderness and we might toss over a cruise missile or two on your facilities after we introduce the terror trainees to our very efficent special forces troops (or just let them have a few extra missiles too).

[opebo]

The fact is, the left is far more anti-Islam than Bush.

of course it is.  and more anti-christian.  and more anti-jew.  and more anti-hindu.  more anti-religion in general.  why they have chosen this path, I don't know.   

Isn't it obvious?!  Religion is by far and away the number one problem in the world today - the main source of violence, oppression, and intolerance.  Most importantly the religious wish to control us and eliminate our personal freedoms (particularly sexual freedoms).  

The religious are the enemy, angus.  I should hope liberals would oppose their mortal enemy.  To do otherwise would be foolish.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Interesting. This poll is tied.

[MasterJedi]

Interesting. This poll is tied.

Bush, and not anymore.

[Bandit3 the Worker]

The fact is, the left is far more anti-Islam than Bush.

It's more complicated than that.

Bush and other non-Muslim conservatives support right-wing policies in general. As a result, they are usually on the same side as right-wing Muslims. For instance, they're against gays and they support censorship.

However, because Bush and his ilk support right-wing policies, they are generally hostile to non-right-wing Muslims. Just as Bush's ilk is hostile to non-right-wing non-Muslims.

[DanielX]

I would say that Bush is more friendly to Islam as a whole than the leftists are, while the left is more friendly to the terrorists and their ilk than Bush is.

This is of course using stereotypical definitions of 'the left', and ignoring many like Lieberman and Dershowitz.