Protestors Topple Confederate Monument in North Carolina (user search)
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  Protestors Topple Confederate Monument in North Carolina (search mode)
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Author Topic: Protestors Topple Confederate Monument in North Carolina  (Read 10600 times)
Crumpets
Thinking Crumpets Crumpet
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Posts: 17,812
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Political Matrix
E: -4.06, S: -6.52

« on: August 14, 2017, 11:39:01 PM »

"But that statue has such great historical significance and meaning to the local population!"

...said absolutely no one when this happened:


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Crumpets
Thinking Crumpets Crumpet
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*****
Posts: 17,812
United States


Political Matrix
E: -4.06, S: -6.52

« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2017, 01:39:06 PM »
« Edited: August 15, 2017, 01:47:15 PM by Crumpets »

As long as we're talking failed regimes guilty of massive war crimes I'd like to see these get toppled too:
Lenin Statues in America
Las Vegas - outside Red Square Restaurant, Mandalay Bay Hotel - Headless
Atlantic City, New Jersey - in the Tropicana Casino
New York City - on top of the Red Square apartment building, E. Houston St. in the East Village[3]
Seattle - Fremont neighborhood (See Statue of Lenin (Seattle))
Head of Lenin, Los Angeles, California - outside a branch of the Ace Gallery, the Ace Museum, on the corner of La Brea Avenue and 4th Street.
Stalin:
A bust of Stalin is displayed at the National D-Day Memorial in Bedford, Virginia.


I don't know much about the other Lenin statues, but I know a lot about the Lenin Statue in Seattle, so let me explain why I think there's no comparison to be made here between it and the Confederate monuments:

- The statue was singled out for preservation because it had several unique features among Lenin statues that made it artistically significant.
- After being determined that it was not going to be destroyed, it still needed to be removed to the us from Slovakia specifically because Lenin was seen as the symbolic antithesis to the new government, just as the Confederate monuments are in the US.
- The statue has basically no meaning to local far-lefties, and despite Seattle having one of the largest Marxist blocs in the country (albeit one which is still tiny), I have never heard of any rally at the statue, it being associated specifically with Soviet Communism in their mind.
- To the rest of US, the statue is, like HisGrace noted about the statue in Vegas, essentially a symbol of Soviet kitsch. We decorate it for Christmas, we decorate it for the Fourth of July, and just for fun. In that regard, it is much more a symbol of our victory in the Cold War than anything Lenin ever personally achieved. It would be similar to a Statue of Robert E. Lee being put up at the US Grant Presidential library, or one of Jefferson Davis in the White House bathroom.
- To the vast majority of Seattlites, the statue represents our ability to make light of old conflicts, bury the hatchet with the former communist countries, and generally thumb our nose at McCarthyists. The important distinction is that nobody here feels any sort of historical allegiance to Lenin and, quite the opposite, see him as something worthy of mocking and messing with. If there were any statues in the South that were treated similarly, maybe I'd feel different about them being removed.
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Crumpets
Thinking Crumpets Crumpet
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*****
Posts: 17,812
United States


Political Matrix
E: -4.06, S: -6.52

« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2017, 12:34:05 AM »

His opinion of George W bush and the Iraq War would have been deleted by the mods for inappropriate language.

I have to say, this reminds me of my own grandpa, himself a WWII veteran, whose last words were "Damn Yankees!" after one of their wins in the 2004 playoffs, and who died within hours of Kerry conceding to Bush.
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Crumpets
Thinking Crumpets Crumpet
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 17,812
United States


Political Matrix
E: -4.06, S: -6.52

« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2017, 11:55:27 AM »

As long as we're talking failed regimes guilty of massive war crimes I'd like to see these get toppled too:
Lenin Statues in America
Las Vegas - outside Red Square Restaurant, Mandalay Bay Hotel - Headless
Atlantic City, New Jersey - in the Tropicana Casino
New York City - on top of the Red Square apartment building, E. Houston St. in the East Village[3]
Seattle - Fremont neighborhood (See Statue of Lenin (Seattle))
Head of Lenin, Los Angeles, California - outside a branch of the Ace Gallery, the Ace Museum, on the corner of La Brea Avenue and 4th Street.
Stalin:
A bust of Stalin is displayed at the National D-Day Memorial in Bedford, Virginia.

Lenin statues in vegas/atlantic city are probably more insulting to the man than tearing the things down would be.
Also In regards to the Op the statue at hand was put up in 1924 at a height of a KKK revival .
At least Seattle should go down then along with changes at these statues in the south - as well as Stone Mountain which was carved in 1916 by the Daughters of the Confederacy.

Stacey Abrams, a Democratic candidate for GA governor, has called for removing the Confederate faces from Stone Mountain.

This would be one where I might have to draw a line. That's the largest bas relief sculpture in the world, and it's not exactly one you can put in a museum. Plus, that's one that really does have a notable place in American - not just Confederate history: "Let freedom ring from Stone Mountain of Georgia." I mean, I get where they're coming from, but...
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Crumpets
Thinking Crumpets Crumpet
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 17,812
United States


Political Matrix
E: -4.06, S: -6.52

« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2017, 12:41:22 PM »

>Implying George S Patton's political opinion is relevant to any of us

He's just an example of the point I'm trying to make. 1940s American men, including the ones who served in WW2, were not a very left-wing bunch. Plenty of them would sympathize with Trump and/or the alt-right today, contrary to what today's leftists apparently think.

Thomas, if you're trying to make the point that the men born in the early 20th century and (at least among officers) late 19th century are more socially conservative than the average person in the 21st century, you're not exactly giving us a hot take here. Nor a remotely relevant one.

I think it's relevant. Leftists and their sympathizers are posting memes all over social media showing photos of American troops who served in WW2 with captions like ''violent, alt-left thugs''. The memes imply that all of the men in those photos would sympathize with the modern left today, which is an absurd assumption to make.

I don't think that's the point they're trying to make as much as that people like Charles Coughlin* and other right wing figures in the US would have painted US vets fighting the Nazis, who like you said were likely not left wing at all and probably leaned right overall, as communist sympathizers. Likewise, today we see anyone who was at the rally to oppose neo-Nazis and the KKK immediately labeled as "alt-left" or "antifa" regardless of what their own personal politics may be. The political spectrum of those who oppose Naziism is just so much broader than some would have you believe.

*I don't actually know enough about Charles Coughlin to know if this is the kind of point he would have made, but he was the first American Nazi sympathizer who popped into my head.
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