Puerto Rico status referendum - June 11

[Virginiá]

Yes on the taxes, fixed the number above.

Your argument for denying statehood to PR is nil to begin with anyways. American citizens on American soil that is not D.C. want statehood. They should get it. If we're going to start precluding statehood to fiscal prosperity, then we should start jettisoning fiscally-challenged states from the union. Do we start with Kansas?

It baffles me how many people are so willing to disenfranchise fellow American citizens for any number of perceived shortcomings. Debt. Location. You name it. DC "shouldn't" get it because some time ago people decided it be a federal district and that means some guy's decision hundreds of years ago means it should never be changed and hundreds of thousands of citizens should never get representation. Never mind the fact that at least 2 states with less people than DC get full representation.

Or how Puerto Rico shouldn't get statehood because they have economic problems, despite the island being full of American citizens. Really? Any other excuses to throw out there? They are Americans and they deserve the right to give input into our federal government. It doesn't matter how bad the economic situation is. This should be a fundamental right that transcends all of that.

And no doubt most of the time these excuses come from people who already enjoy full voting rights and representation. Just the usual "i got mine, so screw you" attitude.

[Virginiá]

Puerto Rico, if it votes for statehood, should be accepted as our 51st state. Full stop. I think there are fair arguments against statehood for D.C. and some of the smaller Pacific territories, primarily that we already have too many tiny states who wield outsized influence in the Senate over more populous ones

I can understand some arguments against statehood for DC but I am 100% behind 2 Senators/1 Rep for the district. If they can't get that, which would take a Constitutional amendment, then statehood is the only option and it shouldn't be denied. Although, reasonable levels of autonomy for DC is also an issue statehood would solve. Right now, Congress meddles far too much in their business.

As for the various territories - that is a good point, and I would argue that maybe they deserve representation as a whole, meaning 2 Senators / 1 Rep to represent all the territories. I'm unsure if Puerto Rico should be lumped in together with them, but looking at the combined population of the other territories - Roughly ~375,000 going by Wikipedia, I can see an argument for it at least.

Either way, I still think something should be done. I don't think anyone in America should be deprived of representation like this.

[Virginiá]

I absolutely hate it when the train of thought goes like "there has to be some sort of "political tradeoff" for the basic recognition and fair treatment of other American citizens."

I couldn't agree with this more. I think that as a last-ditch option, such a compromise could be reached simply to give these disenfranchised people a voice after so long without one, but only after all other options have been exhausted. Republicans are not entitled to one new state for each Democratic-leaning state created, and the idea that either party is entitled to such a thing is absurd. It's not like in the case of DC/PR/etc we want to split up existing states for partisan purposes. These are people who have a legitimate desire and claim for such representation in the union.

It's long been my opinion that as soon as Democrats have the power to do so, they should give statehood (or at least full representation) to at least DC and Puerto Rico. At least from a strategic perspective, I've never understood why Democrats didn't go for this in 2009, but meh. In the end, if Republicans want to kick scream and cry, let them. Just make sure America knows what they are whining about - how "unfair" it is to Republicans that Americans be given fair representation.

[Virginiá]

I really do think it would be a shame if, out of frustration, citizens in Puerto Rico turn away from statehood out of frustration with the federal government. It is not like states don't get screwed as well. Remaining a territory of the United States and not a state is not going to help them long-term. They need people in Congress who can fight for their interests.

That being said, I do understand their frustration. It's just a fking travesty that Puerto Rico is ignored and marginalized like this.

[Virginiá]

How is the national mood in Puerto Rico, you ask?

https://www.facebook.com/fusionmedianetwork/videos/1911510175541618/

Very angry

Are there any polls right now that could give us some insight into this referendum?

I'm wondering if this vote is going to be against statehood. I can certainly understand the anger down there, but if Puerto Rico does not continually push for statehood, it'll probably never happen. Voting to remain a territory, or get independence, or anything but statehood only hurts any future chances of becoming a state.

[Virginiá]

The Puerto Rican government has declared a sort of bankruptcy. The island's economy is now officially shot. Congress doesn't give a hoot.

It's totally absurd and very sad how this has all played out. Why can't Congress help these people? They are Americans ffs. This is the problem I have with territory/other status(es). Either make them a state and give them the benefits of one, or cut them loose.

Instead, Congress puts the Island through economic hell with savage austerity measures (eg, doing something we have seen time and time again completely fail elsewhere in the world)

[Virginiá]

Yeah, mostly to FL. That's why Hillsborough voted the way it did this year. It's leaking into Pinellas too. A ton going to TX and GA as well.

If I could indulge my inner hack for a moment here - who exactly do they blame for this issue? Party-wise, do you think 4 years of Trump presiding over Puerto Rico's worsening problems is going to turn mainland Puerto Ricans further against Republicans? I understand if they may not look at it through the same partisan lens, but if you had to guess - ?

[Virginiá]

23rd Amendment has to be repealed - otherwise, that rump federal district ALSO gets 3 electoral votes.

I don't see a problem with that. It can always be legislated in some way to allocate those EVs to whichever party wins the popular vote. While it should be repealed if DC were made a state, I don't think it should hold up the process.

[Virginiá]

Why is statehood even being considered given their financial situation?

Why would it not be? These are American citizens we're talking about. We shouldn't even be debating this. It should have been done years ago. And that is without considering that the federal government has played, and continues to play a large part in the financial ruin of Puerto Rico.

We ought to do what is right and provide them the full benefits of a state. No more bs conditions or debate. Make them a state and give them fair representation in the federal govt, or cut them loose entirely.

[Virginiá]

So, if we have about half in with around 500,000 ballots cast, we are looking at around a million ballots cast overall or 500,000 less than the governor's race in 2016. Unfortunately, it seems as if turnout may be too low for Republicans to see a true mandate in favor of statehood...

I think they would find a reason to reject it no matter what the turnout or vote share is. In the end, it boils down to partisan politics, and someone like Mitch McConnell is only concerned with winning elections. Giving Puerto Rico 2 Senators would, in his opinion, make things unreasonably difficult for Republicans.

I think statehood for Puerto Rico (or DC) will be up to Democrats to implement, whenever that may be.

[Virginiá]

I know Democrats are desperate for ways to make poor whites irrelevant, but this is just sad.

Not everything is about partisan politics. Some people in this country may just happen to believe that all Americans should get fair representation, and not be written off just because they live in a federal district or a territory that America refuses to give a crap about. Since people in America can't ever seem to agree on anything anymore, a constitutional amendment appears out of the question, and that leaves statehood as the only real option. Further, in PR's case, statehood would offer them more options to deal with their debt - debt that the federal govt helped cause, btw.