Why is Bibi so hated?

[TheReckoning]

Yeah, Bibi’s pretty bad. But is he really that much worse than any other Israeli PM’s throughout history?

[GoTfan]

Yes, he is. Aside from his odious attitudes towards Palestinisnas and the even more odious views of his allies, the man is an authoritarian on the level of Trump and Putin. Only difference is that people aren't as slavishly devoted to him.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Netanyahu's pals assassinated Rabin because he was interested in a peace agreement.
Olmert seems pretty reasonable.
Of course the recent Prime Ministers are pretty bad, but not quite as bad as Netanyahu.

[Upper Canada Tory]

Sadly, Netanyahu's unchecked hubris is the nemesis of Israel & the whole region. His inability to keep domestic tensions at bay, his unwillingness to believe and prepare for warnings about the looming October 7th attack and his chutzpah when dealing with allies like US have all contributed to Israel's current crappy situation.

He is significantly worse than most Israeli Prime Ministers - Likud has produced some of Israel's best PMs, like Menachem Begin, who made peace with Egypt and put Israel on a path of economic prosperity.

I hope ordinary Israelis can pull through this difficult time and find better leadership.

[GeneralMacArthur]

Such are the consequences of picking a dirtbag as your leader.  If nothing too challenging happens, the country may be able to make it through alright.  As soon as there's a big crisis or challenge, though, the country will be exposed for having a sack of s--t for a leader, and he won't be able to lead it through the crisis.

We saw this in the United States with Trump.  Things were rough but tolerable for the first three years, but the country went completely off the rails during Covid, and it was only thanks to a stacked bench of federal bureaucratic agencies that we were able to make it through OK despite having a totally incompetent asshole for a president.  That and the light of a Biden presidency at the end of the tunnel.

[Meclazine for Israel]

The most admired political leader on Atlas to date.

[Progressive Pessimist]

Internationally: he is going overboard in a campaign to ostensibly rid Gaza of Hamas, but to the point of becoming the perpetrator himself and removing Israel’s sympathetic look in the immediate aftermath of October 7.

Domestically: he is corrupt, aspiring to authoritarianism, enabling the Israeli far-right and further diminishing any potential of peace between Israel and Palestine, and by extension also endangering the safety of Jews abroad. He never should have won that 2022 election, no matter how scatter-brained the anti-Bibi government was.

[AtorBoltox]

It's interesting that Hamas and all Palestinian 'resistance' needs to be contextualized to the point of apologism ('the conflict didn't start on October 7') but the same logic isn't true of Israel. Netanyahu and the rise of the radical right in Israel is never understood as a natural response to decades of Palestinian and Arab violence, it's apparently just a result of the ingrained evil of all Israelis. There are no material or social factors that explain it. Every Islamist regime with a death toll 50 times higher than Israel's though, its a very complex situation and we need to understand how we in the west are totally to blame and are the only ones with any agency to make political choices.

[AtorBoltox]

Internationally: he is going overboard in a campaign to ostensibly rid Gaza of Hamas, but to the point of becoming the perpetrator himself and removing Israel’s sympathetic look in the immediate aftermath of October 7.

This didn't exist. Even putting aside the universal celebration of the attacks in the Muslim world, in the west the discourse was primarily 'the attack is bad BUT' followed by an explanation in which Israel was ultimately to blame for it. Protests against Israel began before they had even begun their military response. The decades long demonization of Israel by NGOs and international civil society, which caused the ambivalent reaction in the west to October 7, is self defeating and works against Palestinians in the long run. The 'criticism' is so over the top and in most cases false that Israelis naturally tune it out, even on the occasions its true. It's the boy who cried wolf on a global scale

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

This didn't exist. Even putting the universal celebration of the attacks in the Muslim world, in the west the discourse was primarily 'the attack is bad BUT' followed by an explanation in which Israel was ultimately to blame for it.

This isn't the case. There was an unprecedented amount of support immediately after October, including in polling (the British public, normally sceptical of both sides in the aftermath polled as pro-israel) and from institutions. The pro-palestinian protests were widely pilloried as at the very least incredibly tactless, and there was a small culture war where everyone tripped over themselves to avoid looking bad (in a similar manner to the weirdness at the begining of the russian invasion of Ukraine). At a leadership level, almost the entire west gave full support to Israel in a way that many are awkwardly walking back from. Now you can argue this is because outsiders are a bunch of squishy wets who don't like seeing the sausage being made, but it's incorrect to say October did not increase support for Israel.

As for the Muslim world, maybe we have different memories because my understanding was hamas never looked more isolated and weak immediately after October. They were at public odds with various anti-israel axis members, and even seemingly with themselves - they were the dogs who had caught the car and looked set to be ran over. Now a few months in, it is almost certain hamas will carry on regardless of whether gaza is fully occupied, and it is America's allies that are now shifting uncomfortably.

[CumbrianLefty]

Yes, in actual fact the small minority (and it *was* a small minority, indeed that is a very generous description) in the West who lauded the October 7th atrocities as "resistance" and finger wagged at others that "this is what REAL opposition to imperialism looks like!", were almost universally reviled - not just by the political mainstream, but also many who would normally be fellow travellers.

Days afterwards, Keir Starmer said in his set piece speech at the Labour conference "this party is with Israel" and received a prolonged standing ovation - there was no audible dissent.

People who want to blindly support Netanyahu's every act to the bitter end (a position they are entitled to take, of course) should not be allowed to rewrite history to make them feel better about doing so.

[TheReckoning]

Internationally: he is going overboard in a campaign to ostensibly rid Gaza of Hamas, but to the point of becoming the perpetrator himself and removing Israel’s sympathetic look in the immediate aftermath of October 7.

Bibi was really hated prior to October 7x

[Fubart Solman]

Internationally: he is going overboard in a campaign to ostensibly rid Gaza of Hamas, but to the point of becoming the perpetrator himself and removing Israel’s sympathetic look in the immediate aftermath of October 7.

Bibi was really hated prior to October 7x

I used to hate Bibi. I still do, but I used to, too.

[Antonio the Sixth]

because he sucks

[CumbrianLefty]

because he sucks

Sometimes the simple answers are the best ones

[Mike88]

Because he represents the worst in politics.

[ingemann]

because he sucks

Yes, whatever people think about the newest Gaza War, let’s not forget how he spend the first half of 2023. Also even if you happened to be a pro-Israeli hawk on the entire Israel-Palestine conflict, he has completely failed in protecting Israel.

I’m more curious about who in their right mind could have a positive view of Bibi.

[GMantis]

While all that was said about Netanyahu here is certainly true, there's an additional factor that has yet to be mentioned, despite (or because) its great significance. That is the accusation leveled at Netanyahu by the more moderate supporters of Israel that he's responsible for the brutality with which this war was has been led. Nothing could be further from the truth - Netanyahu's views of the conflict are fully shared by the overwhelming majority of Israel's population, with many (perhaps most) believing that he's not going far enough. Any conceivable Israeli government would prosecute the war in essentially the same fashion. The same is true regarding the overall solution of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Netanyahu has certainly done his best to sabotage such a solution, but any government likely to be elected in Israel wouldn't budge an iota from the status quo he has imposed.
But admitting these facts would present a significant conundrum for the above mentioned moderate supporters - they'd have to recognize that changing the government of Israel wouldn't help at all and that the country as a whole would have to be penalized to forced them to change their way. And since this is inconceivable for these people, they have to pretend the problem is Netanyahu, hence much of the rhetoric against him.

[Hindsight was 2020]

While all that was said about Netanyahu here is certainly true, there's an additional factor that has yet to be mentioned, despite (or because) its great significance. That is the accusation leveled at Netanyahu by the more moderate supporters of Israel that he's responsible for the brutality in which this was has been led. Nothing could be further from the truth - Netanyahu's views of the conflict are fully shared by the overwhelming majority of Israel's population, with many (perhaps most) believing that he's not going far enough. Any conceivable Israeli government would prosecute the war in essentially the same fashion. The same true is true regarding the overall solution of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Netanyahu has certainly done his best to sabotage such a solution, but any government likely to be elected in Israel wouldn't budge an iota from the status quo he has imposed.
But admitting these facts would present a significant conundrum for the above mentioned moderate supporters - they'd have to recognize that changing the government of Israel wouldn't help at all and that the country as a whole would have to be penalized to forced them to change their way. And since this is inconceivable for these people, they have to pretend the problem is Netanyahu, hence much of the rhetoric against him.

Thevwar would be brutal no doubt but I don’t see a more moderate Israeli government using openly genocidal/collective punishment rhetoric or tactics

[GMantis]

While all that was said about Netanyahu here is certainly true, there's an additional factor that has yet to be mentioned, despite (or because) its great significance. That is the accusation leveled at Netanyahu by the more moderate supporters of Israel that he's responsible for the brutality in which this was has been led. Nothing could be further from the truth - Netanyahu's views of the conflict are fully shared by the overwhelming majority of Israel's population, with many (perhaps most) believing that he's not going far enough. Any conceivable Israeli government would prosecute the war in essentially the same fashion. The same true is true regarding the overall solution of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Netanyahu has certainly done his best to sabotage such a solution, but any government likely to be elected in Israel wouldn't budge an iota from the status quo he has imposed.
But admitting these facts would present a significant conundrum for the above mentioned moderate supporters - they'd have to recognize that changing the government of Israel wouldn't help at all and that the country as a whole would have to be penalized to forced them to change their way. And since this is inconceivable for these people, they have to pretend the problem is Netanyahu, hence much of the rhetoric against him.

Thevwar would be brutal no doubt but I don’t see a more moderate Israeli government using openly genocidal/collective punishment rhetoric or tactics

Maybe they would use more measured rhetoric, but I highly doubt that they would use different tactics. It's not as if any but a small minority of Israelis see any problems with these tactics. Consider Lapid, probably the most moderate of any potential Israeli leaders and yet he openly celebrated the mass deaths in Gaza and fully backed the prosecution of the war. So what can Benny Gantz, Netanyahu's most likely successor be expected to do, when he boasted of killing Arabs long before the current war and has been just as adamant as Netanyahu in not allowing a two-state solution?

[CumbrianLefty]

You surely mean they would use much the same *strategy* - I can certainly see a PM like Gantz not using identical *tactics* to Bibi. He wouldn't be so beholden to the genuine loony right either.

This is a bit like the debate over Putin and Russia isn't it - in both cases any likely successor is also going to be a "hardliner". But that generalisation maybe conceals as much as it reveals.

[Santander]

He is literally the longest-serving PM in Israel history. Obviously, a divisive leader who's been around forever is going to be uniquely hated.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Internationally: he is going overboard in a campaign to ostensibly rid Gaza of Hamas, but to the point of becoming the perpetrator himself and removing Israel’s sympathetic look in the immediate aftermath of October 7.

This didn't exist. Even putting aside the universal celebration of the attacks in the Muslim world, in the west the discourse was primarily 'the attack is bad BUT' followed by an explanation in which Israel was ultimately to blame for it. Protests against Israel began before they had even begun their military response. The decades long demonization of Israel by NGOs and international civil society, which caused the ambivalent reaction in the west to October 7, is self defeating and works against Palestinians in the long run. The 'criticism' is so over the top and in most cases false that Israelis naturally tune it out, even on the occasions its true. It's the boy who cried wolf on a global scale

Case in point...see pppolitics and Snowstalker's posts on October 7. And those are just the ones that weren't deleted!

Snowstalker was even truthing about if the attack even happened and accusing it of being a false flag.

[GMantis]

You surely mean they would use much the same *strategy* - I can certainly see a PM like Gantz not using identical *tactics* to Bibi. He wouldn't be so beholden to the genuine loony right either.

Why not? The tactics used in this war were designed by the military of which Gantz was not long Chief of the General Staff. It's unlikely that he'd have any significant objectives to their conduct.

This is a bit like the debate over Putin and Russia isn't it - in both cases any likely successor is also going to be a "hardliner". But that generalisation maybe conceals as much as it reveals.

Not really a comparable situation. As far as is known, starting the war was mostly Putin's private obsession rather than something really wanted by the Russian elites as a whole. Its actual popularity is almost certainly substantially exaggerated, considering how distorted these polls are likely to be in an authoritarian country where opposition to the war is prosecuted. This is definitely not the case in Israel. As was remarked half-jokingly, the Moscow-Tel Aviv flight is just as heavily booked when war breaks out in Russia and in Israel.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

I assume the post-bibi aim will indeed be to essentially throw him and his allies over the board with all the unpopular things that Israel has done in the war, and there will be a great effort to ensure gantz is presented as the adult in the room. And in all honesty, if this leads to an altered israeli government in the future, I think this creative reading of history is probably for the best.