70% Americans think COVID is here to stay and it’s time to move on
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
May 06, 2024, 01:25:14 PM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Politics
  U.S. General Discussion (Moderators: The Dowager Mod, Chancellor Tanterterg)
  70% Americans think COVID is here to stay and it’s time to move on
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2
Author Topic: 70% Americans think COVID is here to stay and it’s time to move on  (Read 1693 times)
OSR stands with Israel
Computer89
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 44,875


Political Matrix
E: 3.42, S: 2.61

P P P

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« on: January 31, 2022, 06:12:53 PM »

Logged
DaleCooper
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 11,120


P P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2022, 06:16:13 PM »

It's interesting how behind the Democrats are on a lot of issues like this. Virtually everyone on the right and a supermajority of independents agree, but the Democrats are in a dead heat, and that's only the general population. Amongst Democratic politicians (and even primary voters) I bet that their numbers look more like an inverse of the independents.

The left has a similar delusion with cancel culture, where the popular opinion is plain for all to see, but Democrats simply cannot bring themselves to acknowledge it.
Logged
HillGoose
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 12,893
United States


Political Matrix
E: 1.74, S: -8.96

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2022, 06:18:11 PM »
« Edited: January 31, 2022, 06:22:29 PM by YassifyGoose »

yeah they're never going to let it end though, like we're all still gonna have to live in COVID restriction hell forever because everything only gets worse always
Logged
cvparty
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,099
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2022, 06:23:44 PM »

This is probably going to become more and more salient, and I genuinely think the state of the pandemic by November will have a significant effect on the outcome of the midterm elections
Logged
compucomp
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,578


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2022, 06:24:37 PM »

And in the same poll

-52% support mask and social distancing guidelines
-43% support vaccine mandates, while not a majority, substantially higher than 30%
-62% is very or somewhat concerned about becoming severely ill from COVID-19
-60% think that the country will not be able to get the outbreak under control and back to normal until after this year

The eye-catching 70% number is not the slam dunk you think it is. Accepting that COVID is here to stay and getting on with our lives can mean different things to different people. It's entirely reasonable to say that this means adapting to the new normal i.e. continuing to mask and reduce social contact.
Logged
Vaccinated Russian Bear
Russian Bear
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,106
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2022, 06:25:44 PM »

Quote
Dems:
Agree 47%
Disagree 51%

 Sad

Poor Joe. He can't do much given so high share of Crazy Libs in his base, and likely it is gonna hurt him 2022.
Logged
ProudModerate2
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 20,486
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2022, 06:30:20 PM »

It's interesting how behind the Democrats are on a lot of issues like this. Virtually everyone on the right and a supermajority of independents agree, but the Democrats are in a dead heat, and that's only the general population. Amongst Democratic politicians (and even primary voters) I bet that their numbers look more like an inverse of the independents.

The left has a similar delusion with cancel culture, where the popular opinion is plain for all to see, but Democrats simply cannot bring themselves to acknowledge it.

In your personal opinion, what exactly does "we just need to get on with our lives" even mean?
People like to throw "loaded" words out, like this one, and also "back to normal," but they have no exact definition of what this means.
What is your exact proposal/procedures/steps to "we just need to get on with our lives" ?
Logged
GeneralMacArthur
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 11,033
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2022, 06:39:43 PM »

"Get on with our lives" could mean any number of things.  I got the vaccine, and got on with my life.  Now the only way COVID impacts me is that I occasionally have to wear a mask, which I don't mind at all.
Logged
Vaccinated Russian Bear
Russian Bear
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,106
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2022, 06:49:20 PM »

"Get on with our lives" could mean any number of things.  I got the vaccine, and got on with my life.  Now the only way COVID impacts me is that I occasionally have to wear a mask, which I don't mind at all.

Bagdad GMAC's timeline:

Aug 2021: Afghanistan debacle isn't real!
Oct 2021: Inflation isn't real!
Jan 2022: Restrictions aren't real!
Logged
Middle-aged Europe
Old Europe
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 17,234
Ukraine


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2022, 06:50:05 PM »

And in the same poll

-52% support mask and social distancing guidelines
-43% support vaccine mandates, while not a majority, substantially higher than 30%
-62% is very or somewhat concerned about becoming severely ill from COVID-19
-60% think that the country will not be able to get the outbreak under control and back to normal until after this year

The eye-catching 70% number is not the slam dunk you think it is. Accepting that COVID is here to stay and getting on with our lives can mean different things to different people. It's entirely reasonable to say that this means adapting to the new normal i.e. continuing to mask and reduce social contact.

Well, there is difference between "COVID is here to stay" and "it's a time to move on with our lives", so the poll's main question as presented by the OP is a bit imprecise to begin with.

I think the question whether COVID is here to stay has been settled for quite a while now, while the part with  moving on with our lives is a gradual process that has also been going for a while, but isn't really finished yet. Hence also the polling numbers posted by you above. I understand there's a mindboggling large faction in this forum who likes to pretend that the "moving on" has been concluded yesterday rather than in the future, but as I said before on similar occasions, you can't bend reality to you will no matter how hard you want it.
Logged
Calthrina950
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,919
United States


P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2022, 07:21:24 PM »

And in the same poll

-52% support mask and social distancing guidelines
-43% support vaccine mandates, while not a majority, substantially higher than 30%
-62% is very or somewhat concerned about becoming severely ill from COVID-19
-60% think that the country will not be able to get the outbreak under control and back to normal until after this year

The eye-catching 70% number is not the slam dunk you think it is. Accepting that COVID is here to stay and getting on with our lives can mean different things to different people. It's entirely reasonable to say that this means adapting to the new normal i.e. continuing to mask and reduce social contact.

Well, there is difference between "COVID is here to stay" and "it's a time to move on with our lives", so the poll's main question as presented by the OP is a bit imprecise to begin with.

I think the question whether COVID is here to stay has been settled for quite a while now, while the part with  moving on with our lives is a gradual process that has also been going for a while, but isn't really finished yet. Hence also the polling numbers posted by you above. I understand there's a mindboggling large faction in this forum who likes to pretend that the "moving on" has been concluded yesterday rather than in the future, but as I said before on similar occasions, you can't bend reality to you will no matter how hard you want it.

The reality cannot be bent, and it's obvious at this point that the new normal is going to prevail. I've said from long before that we're going to see many permanent changes because of this pandemic. An expansion in virtual learning, teleconferencing, and working from home. Regular testing and quarantines. Rolling mask mandates in some jurisdictions (or at times of the year), and a large segment of the population voluntarily wearing them everywhere in public. And so on.
Logged
MRS DONNA SHALALA
cuddlebuns
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 594
South Africa


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2022, 07:31:03 PM »

"Get on with our lives" could mean any number of things.  I got the vaccine, and got on with my life.  Now the only way COVID impacts me is that I occasionally have to wear a mask, which I don't mind at all.

Bagdad GMAC's timeline:

Aug 2021: Afghanistan debacle isn't real!
Oct 2021: Inflation isn't real!
Jan 2022: Restrictions aren't real!

I mean, in the past couple of weeks I went to a football game, the new Matrix movie, a Broadway show, dinner with friends at several restaurants, and an eSports tournament. I literally can't think of anything I could do before COVID that I can't do now, and I live in the ~*liberal hellhole*~ of NYC.

What does "getting on with your life" equal if not the above?
Logged
DaleCooper
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 11,120


P P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2022, 09:13:10 PM »

It's interesting how behind the Democrats are on a lot of issues like this. Virtually everyone on the right and a supermajority of independents agree, but the Democrats are in a dead heat, and that's only the general population. Amongst Democratic politicians (and even primary voters) I bet that their numbers look more like an inverse of the independents.

The left has a similar delusion with cancel culture, where the popular opinion is plain for all to see, but Democrats simply cannot bring themselves to acknowledge it.

In your personal opinion, what exactly does "we just need to get on with our lives" even mean?
People like to throw "loaded" words out, like this one, and also "back to normal," but they have no exact definition of what this means.
What is your exact proposal/procedures/steps to "we just need to get on with our lives" ?

My position right now is that the government should continue providing free vaccines and free boosters, as well as offer free Pfizer pills to anyone that gets COVID and needs that treatment. Every single other mitigation policy should end.
Logged
GeneralMacArthur
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 11,033
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2022, 09:23:44 PM »

"Get on with our lives" could mean any number of things.  I got the vaccine, and got on with my life.  Now the only way COVID impacts me is that I occasionally have to wear a mask, which I don't mind at all.

Bagdad GMAC's timeline:

Aug 2021: Afghanistan debacle isn't real!
Oct 2021: Inflation isn't real!
Jan 2022: Restrictions aren't real!

Uh, what?  All of those things are real.  I'm not some delusional conservative who just lives in his own reality where Trump is secretly still president.

The issue at hand is whether any of them are as bad as people make them out to be.  On the issue of Afghanistan I think the answer has clearly been a resounding NO -- we were promised there would be thousands of Americans and SIVs abandoned to be kidnapped or murdered by the Taliban and that absolutely did not happen.  In retrospect we accomplished all our goals in the Afghanistan withdrawal under incredibly difficult circumstances with minimal negative repercussions except for some really bad PR for the administration based entirely on false information and speculation that turned out to be malarkey.

Inflation is a global phenomenon caused by a variety of factors and I have full confidence in the Biden administration to bring it down, at which point you will stop pretending to care about it, just like you guys stopped pretending to care about jobs after Biden absolutely annihilated Trump's jobs numbers.

Restrictions are the focus of this thread.  But instead of actually addressing what I wrote in a mature fashion you decided to just engage with me via a cheap drive-by strawman.  What a great poster you are.
Logged
Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers
olawakandi
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 88,957
Jamaica
Political Matrix
E: -6.84, S: -0.17


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2022, 09:53:50 PM »

There are no cures for viruses so, and the virus was brought over by immigrants and it's still is coming thru with immigrated without a wall but the Rs aren't gonna build a completed wall if the get back empowered they support amnesty too, so it's nothing we can do
Logged
John Dule
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 18,427
United States


Political Matrix
E: 6.57, S: -7.50

P P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2022, 10:28:11 PM »


"Debacle" is a weird term to apply to the single greatest political event of my lifetime.
Logged
Sprouts Farmers Market ✘
Sprouts
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,770
Italy


Political Matrix
E: -4.90, S: 1.74

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2022, 11:00:01 PM »

"Get on with our lives" could mean any number of things.  I got the vaccine, and got on with my life.  Now the only way COVID impacts me is that I occasionally have to wear a mask, which I don't mind at all.

Bagdad GMAC's timeline:

Aug 2021: Afghanistan debacle isn't real!
Oct 2021: Inflation isn't real!
Jan 2022: Restrictions aren't real!

The Democrat Party has complete disdain for most people's lived experiences. Our politics are post-truth on both sides. The difference is that the Republican base is widely more accepting of that fact and well-off enough to not let it get in the way of their narrative.
Logged
Crumpets
Thinking Crumpets Crumpet
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 17,743
United States


Political Matrix
E: -4.06, S: -6.52

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2022, 11:07:25 PM »
« Edited: February 01, 2022, 12:03:20 AM by Crumpets »

The moment we just "move on" from COVID without first having improved access to at-home treatment (i.e. pretty soon) is the moment this poll becomes 70% of Americans demanding Biden do something about the overcrowded hospitals and lack of emergency and intensive care. It's a pick your poison situation.
Logged
MRS DONNA SHALALA
cuddlebuns
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 594
South Africa


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #18 on: February 01, 2022, 12:28:43 AM »

I mean, in the past couple of weeks I went to a football game, the new Matrix movie, a Broadway show, dinner with friends at several restaurants, and an eSports tournament. I literally can't think of anything I could do before COVID that I can't do now, and I live in the ~*liberal hellhole*~ of NYC.

What does "getting on with your life" equal if not the above?

Prompt: Tell me you don't have childcare or in-person work responsibilities without saying that you don't have childcare or in-person work responsibilities.

I work in person in an office, COVID is barely an issue there either. And schools have resumed in-person learning so I don't see how that's meant to be some kind of own, either.
Logged
Fmr. Gov. NickG
NickG
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,203


Political Matrix
E: -8.00, S: -3.49

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #19 on: February 01, 2022, 12:59:29 AM »

How can 70% of people say we need to “move on with our lives” when 52% in the same poll support continuing mask mandates and social distancing.  This is -not- “moving on” from covid.
Logged
DrScholl
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 18,201
United States


Political Matrix
E: -5.55, S: -3.30

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #20 on: February 01, 2022, 01:05:43 AM »

You can't just make a virus go away by screaming "I'M GETTING ON WITH MY LIFE". The logic that just issuing a verbal decree that the pandemic is over will end it is exactly why this pandemic will not go away in reality. You can symbolically declare whatever you like, but in reality that won't stop surges in the future. COVID isn't a person, it is a virus that doesn't care about symbolism. My point is that you can be "done" with COVID restrictions, but you cannot be "done" with COVID itself. You can still get sick and no politician can save you from that.
Logged
Calthrina950
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,919
United States


P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #21 on: February 01, 2022, 01:41:16 AM »

How can 70% of people say we need to “move on with our lives” when 52% in the same poll support continuing mask mandates and social distancing.  This is -not- “moving on” from covid.

In my view, it seems as a majority of the public-sharply polarized along partisan lines-want to "move on with our lives" by living within the "new normal", which entails incorporating mask mandates and social distancing. In other words, people don't want to return to lockdowns or to widespread restrictions on business and social activity, but they don't want to fully return to the norms of pre-pandemic life either. I've gradually come to accept that this is the will of the majority.
Logged
T'Chenka
King TChenka
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 13,170
Canada


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #22 on: February 01, 2022, 06:31:30 AM »

You can't just make a virus go away by screaming "I'M GETTING ON WITH MY LIFE". The logic that just issuing a verbal decree that the pandemic is over will end it is exactly why this pandemic will not go away in reality. You can symbolically declare whatever you like, but in reality that won't stop surges in the future. COVID isn't a person, it is a virus that doesn't care about symbolism. My point is that you can be "done" with COVID restrictions, but you cannot be "done" with COVID itself. You can still get sick and no politician can save you from that.
Yep. The grandiosity, narcissism and hubris is really breathtaking. The human race collectively is not God. We don't call all of the shots on this planet.
Logged
Starry Eyed Jagaloon
Blairite
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,835
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #23 on: February 01, 2022, 07:43:27 AM »
« Edited: February 01, 2022, 07:53:57 AM by Apparently Juche »

Alrighty, I'm going to do an overly-long text wall of a post articulating my thoughts about Covid and why I'm on the hard-reopen vanguard of the Democratic Party. Please ignore if this is all too self-indulgent...


You can't just make a virus go away by screaming "I'M GETTING ON WITH MY LIFE". The logic that just issuing a verbal decree that the pandemic is over will end it is exactly why this pandemic will not go away in reality. You can symbolically declare whatever you like, but in reality that won't stop surges in the future. COVID isn't a person, it is a virus that doesn't care about symbolism. My point is that you can be "done" with COVID restrictions, but you cannot be "done" with COVID itself. You can still get sick and no politician can save you from that.

Here's the thing. The ideal world is one without Covid in it. At one point, we thought mRNA vaccines would get us to that world. And in reality, they've gotten us close enough for people who want to protect themselves. People who don't want to protect themselves can deal with the fallout--and we don't need to make policy for them. Covid spread *does not matter* if vaccinated people aren't dying. Because the vaccines are pretty damn good.

But perhaps more importantly, the tradeoff between restrictions and freedom is very different than in 2020. In 2020, the deal was "we have restrictions until a vaccine is released to protect the vulnerable. Once the vaccine is out, everyone can go back to normal." The cost-benefit calculation is different now. In 2020, the rational choice was to wait a few months until vaccines came out to lift restrictions. We had an immediate, clear solution that would reduce Covid risk. There was a short-term payoff to delaying reopening. No such solution exists today. There is no particularly good reason to expect Covid circulation to be lower in 2024 than it is right now. There is no new vaccine coming--we already have the vaccine. Therefore, the abstract benefit of delaying stuff into the future has been eliminated. I think this is where your argument breaks down. There is no medium-term amount of time over which we can expect Covid risk to meaningfully fall. If this is as safe as things can be, it is not reasonable to expect people to make choices that will minimize spread and save lives. The cost, unlike in 2020, is simply not worth the benefit because you can promise no hard end date after which life will return to 2019. "Don’t do X for some defined period of time after which X will become dramatically safer" (i.e. March 2020-May 2021) is very different than “don’t do X indefinitely.” (i.e. any restriction after May 2021).

Therefore, the only rational choice--in decision making, in risk mitigation, in anything--is to treat Covid like it is, indeed, "done." If future surges cannot be stopped by the mRNA vaccines we all have today, there is no reason to make any effort to stop them.


"Get on with our lives" could mean any number of things.  I got the vaccine, and got on with my life.  Now the only way COVID impacts me is that I occasionally have to wear a mask, which I don't mind at all.

Bagdad GMAC's timeline:

Aug 2021: Afghanistan debacle isn't real!
Oct 2021: Inflation isn't real!
Jan 2022: Restrictions aren't real!

I mean, in the past couple of weeks I went to a football game, the new Matrix movie, a Broadway show, dinner with friends at several restaurants, and an eSports tournament. I literally can't think of anything I could do before COVID that I can't do now, and I live in the ~*liberal hellhole*~ of NYC.

What does "getting on with your life" equal if not the above?

Life is 90% of the way back to normal. Those on the right who think that it is still April 2020 in blue states are entirely detached from reality, but that also does not mean it is 100% of the way back to normal. And because--as I said above--risk mitigation against Covid is not rational, we need to be 100% of the way back to normal.

Here's some stuff that is still happening:
  • Concerts, conventions, speaking events, and big gatherings are still being cancelled because organizations don't want to host during Covid.
  • People--particularly kids in K12--who are exposed to Covid often have to isolate for a full week.
  • Asymptomatic people with breakthrough cases have to isolate for five days.
  • Millions of people are still working from home as big employers (and federal agencies, particularly in Washington) push back a return to the office by 2-3 months every 2-3 months. This is particularly decimating to all the businesses that rely on bustling downtowns and office workers to serve.
  • Schools, universities, and most businesses still have mask mandates. Many schools also have weekly testing requirements.
  • In-person Social Security offices have been 100% closed for two full years. For people without reliable internet access (usually poor and old), this is devastating--and erodes trust in our state capacity.
  • You have to wear a mask on the train, on airplanes, and going grocery shopping.
  • Service sector workers have to wear masks 8-10 hours per day, every day.
  • Transpacific travel is still entirely shut down. (Not our fault, but still). Even where international travel is open, people have to get a PCR test before every flight.
  • And crucially, RULES KEEP CHANGING. Back in 2017, I could plan 6-36 months ahead with some certainty. I knew what my life would look like. But two years of constant fluctuation from institutions breaks down the trust and the certainty people need for stability in their lives. And this breeds a constant, toxic feeling of precarity in everything we do.

None of these are individually a big deal, but collectively they add up. I think it has been reflected politically. Right now, Joe Biden should be very popular and Americans should be very happy. It's the roaring twenties 2.0. For most people alive today, 2020 was the worst year of their life. It was destabilizing, it was miserable, it was lonely, and it was desperate. Things are better. Even with inflation, most people are doing at least as well as they were in 2019. We can now do *most* of the things we could do in 2019. We have the fastest GDP growth of recent times anywhere in the world. Forget BBB for a moment--everyday voters should approve of Biden 60-40 on the merits of "life isn't like 2020" alone. More importantly, questions like "Is America getting better or worse?" should have 75-80 percent of people answering "better." But for some reason, that isn't happening. I believe it is because two years on, these constant, individually small but collectively immiserating vestiges of the pandemic are sapping the national spirit and making people feel like their lives aren't that great--even though materially, they are.

Biden and Harris have appropriately rejected the worst instincts of the lockdowners, but they haven't articulated a specific date at which life will be exactly like February 2019. A date where masks will not be required anywhere--even airplanes. A date where nobody will have to isolate for testing positive. A date where absolutely no services that were once offered in person are offered only virtually. I know that Covid-19 hawks feel that masks are a no-big-deal low-cost intervention. If we're being entirely rational, it's correct that they don't cost anything. But they offer us extraordinarily marginal protection compared to vaccines so they're frankly not worth bothering with. I was 100% on board with mask mandates right up until May 2021 when everyone had access to the vaccines. I was fine with a national law and fines for non-compliance. But today, they're an unceasing visual and tactile reminder of the misery of the pandemic. Everytime you don't see someone's face, it puts you back in that unpleasant bunker mentality. They don't allow you to look forward and feel optimistic about our current national state, even though there's a lot to be optimistic about. I do not believe most people will feel like we've put the pandemic behind us until we stop seeing (and wearing) masks everywhere we go. Especially on the faces of the President and Vice President.


It's interesting how behind the Democrats are on a lot of issues like this. Virtually everyone on the right and a supermajority of independents agree, but the Democrats are in a dead heat, and that's only the general population. Amongst Democratic politicians (and even primary voters) I bet that their numbers look more like an inverse of the independents.

The left has a similar delusion with cancel culture, where the popular opinion is plain for all to see, but Democrats simply cannot bring themselves to acknowledge it.

You're probably right, but do we really have to treat the phrase "cancel culture" like an appropriate combination of words for adult political culture? It's a real pet peeve. We have a word from zoomer slang (cancel) and threw culture on the end (which isn't correct word choice) and now have boomer pundits uncritically repeating it ad nauseum. The whole thing feels surreal.
Logged
Calthrina950
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,919
United States


P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #24 on: February 01, 2022, 09:23:27 AM »

Alrighty, I'm going to do an overly-long text wall of a post articulating my thoughts about Covid and why I'm on the hard-reopen vanguard of the Democratic Party. Please ignore if this is all too self-indulgent...


You can't just make a virus go away by screaming "I'M GETTING ON WITH MY LIFE". The logic that just issuing a verbal decree that the pandemic is over will end it is exactly why this pandemic will not go away in reality. You can symbolically declare whatever you like, but in reality that won't stop surges in the future. COVID isn't a person, it is a virus that doesn't care about symbolism. My point is that you can be "done" with COVID restrictions, but you cannot be "done" with COVID itself. You can still get sick and no politician can save you from that.

Here's the thing. The ideal world is one without Covid in it. At one point, we thought mRNA vaccines would get us to that world. And in reality, they've gotten us close enough for people who want to protect themselves. People who don't want to protect themselves can deal with the fallout--and we don't need to make policy for them. Covid spread *does not matter* if vaccinated people aren't dying. Because the vaccines are pretty damn good.

But perhaps more importantly, the tradeoff between restrictions and freedom is very different than in 2020. In 2020, the deal was "we have restrictions until a vaccine is released to protect the vulnerable. Once the vaccine is out, everyone can go back to normal." The cost-benefit calculation is different now. In 2020, the rational choice was to wait a few months until vaccines came out to lift restrictions. We had an immediate, clear solution that would reduce Covid risk. There was a short-term payoff to delaying reopening. No such solution exists today. There is no particularly good reason to expect Covid circulation to be lower in 2024 than it is right now. There is no new vaccine coming--we already have the vaccine. Therefore, the abstract benefit of delaying stuff into the future has been eliminated. I think this is where your argument breaks down. There is no medium-term amount of time over which we can expect Covid risk to meaningfully fall. If this is as safe as things can be, it is not reasonable to expect people to make choices that will minimize spread and save lives. The cost, unlike in 2020, is simply not worth the benefit because you can promise no hard end date after which life will return to 2019. "Don’t do X for some defined period of time after which X will become dramatically safer" (i.e. March 2020-May 2021) is very different than “don’t do X indefinitely.” (i.e. any restriction after May 2021).

Therefore, the only rational choice--in decision making, in risk mitigation, in anything--is to treat Covid like it is, indeed, "done." If future surges cannot be stopped by the mRNA vaccines we all have today, there is no reason to make any effort to stop them.


"Get on with our lives" could mean any number of things.  I got the vaccine, and got on with my life.  Now the only way COVID impacts me is that I occasionally have to wear a mask, which I don't mind at all.

Bagdad GMAC's timeline:

Aug 2021: Afghanistan debacle isn't real!
Oct 2021: Inflation isn't real!
Jan 2022: Restrictions aren't real!

I mean, in the past couple of weeks I went to a football game, the new Matrix movie, a Broadway show, dinner with friends at several restaurants, and an eSports tournament. I literally can't think of anything I could do before COVID that I can't do now, and I live in the ~*liberal hellhole*~ of NYC.

What does "getting on with your life" equal if not the above?

Life is 90% of the way back to normal. Those on the right who think that it is still April 2020 in blue states are entirely detached from reality, but that also does not mean it is 100% of the way back to normal. And because--as I said above--risk mitigation against Covid is not rational, we need to be 100% of the way back to normal.

Here's some stuff that is still happening:
  • Concerts, conventions, speaking events, and big gatherings are still being cancelled because organizations don't want to host during Covid.
  • People--particularly kids in K12--who are exposed to Covid often have to isolate for a full week.
  • Asymptomatic people with breakthrough cases have to isolate for five days.
  • Millions of people are still working from home as big employers (and federal agencies, particularly in Washington) push back a return to the office by 2-3 months every 2-3 months. This is particularly decimating to all the businesses that rely on bustling downtowns and office workers to serve.
  • Schools, universities, and most businesses still have mask mandates. Many schools also have weekly testing requirements.
  • In-person Social Security offices have been 100% closed for two full years. For people without reliable internet access (usually poor and old), this is devastating--and erodes trust in our state capacity.
  • You have to wear a mask on the train, on airplanes, and going grocery shopping.
  • Service sector workers have to wear masks 8-10 hours per day, every day.
  • Transpacific travel is still entirely shut down. (Not our fault, but still). Even where international travel is open, people have to get a PCR test before every flight.
  • And crucially, RULES KEEP CHANGING. Back in 2017, I could plan 6-36 months ahead with some certainty. I knew what my life would look like. But two years of constant fluctuation from institutions breaks down the trust and the certainty people need for stability in their lives. And this breeds a constant, toxic feeling of precarity in everything we do.

None of these are individually a big deal, but collectively they add up. I think it has been reflected politically. Right now, Joe Biden should be very popular and Americans should be very happy. It's the roaring twenties 2.0. For most people alive today, 2020 was the worst year of their life. It was destabilizing, it was miserable, it was lonely, and it was desperate. Things are better. Even with inflation, most people are doing at least as well as they were in 2019. We can now do *most* of the things we could do in 2019. We have the fastest GDP growth of recent times anywhere in the world. Forget BBB for a moment--everyday voters should approve of Biden 60-40 on the merits of "life isn't like 2020" alone. More importantly, questions like "Is America getting better or worse?" should have 75-80 percent of people answering "better." But for some reason, that isn't happening. I believe it is because two years on, these constant, individually small but collectively immiserating vestiges of the pandemic are sapping the national spirit and making people feel like their lives aren't that great--even though materially, they are.

Biden and Harris have appropriately rejected the worst instincts of the lockdowners, but they haven't articulated a specific date at which life will be exactly like February 2019. A date where masks will not be required anywhere--even airplanes. A date where nobody will have to isolate for testing positive. A date where absolutely no services that were once offered in person are offered only virtually. I know that Covid-19 hawks feel that masks are a no-big-deal low-cost intervention. If we're being entirely rational, it's correct that they don't cost anything. But they offer us extraordinarily marginal protection compared to vaccines so they're frankly not worth bothering with. I was 100% on board with mask mandates right up until May 2021 when everyone had access to the vaccines. I was fine with a national law and fines for non-compliance. But today, they're an unceasing visual and tactile reminder of the misery of the pandemic. Everytime you don't see someone's face, it puts you back in that unpleasant bunker mentality. They don't allow you to look forward and feel optimistic about our current national state, even though there's a lot to be optimistic about. I do not believe most people will feel like we've put the pandemic behind us until we stop seeing (and wearing) masks everywhere we go. Especially on the faces of the President and Vice President.


It's interesting how behind the Democrats are on a lot of issues like this. Virtually everyone on the right and a supermajority of independents agree, but the Democrats are in a dead heat, and that's only the general population. Amongst Democratic politicians (and even primary voters) I bet that their numbers look more like an inverse of the independents.

The left has a similar delusion with cancel culture, where the popular opinion is plain for all to see, but Democrats simply cannot bring themselves to acknowledge it.

You're probably right, but do we really have to treat the phrase "cancel culture" like an appropriate combination of words for adult political culture? It's a real pet peeve. We have a word from zoomer slang (cancel) and threw culture on the end (which isn't correct word choice) and now have boomer pundits uncritically repeating it ad nauseum. The whole thing feels surreal.

This is one of the best written posts I've ever seen about the current situation here, and I fully agree with what you have to say here. You've articulated well what my viewpoints have been for a long time. I'm one of those service sector workers who has to mask up whenever I'm working, and I'm getting sick and tired of it. I'm getting sick and tired of seeing masks, of hearing about new cases, of hearing about quarantines, of hearing about virtual learning-about all of it. The virus is never going to go away, but I don't want to be stuck living in pandemic mode for the rest of my life.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.081 seconds with 12 queries.