Nazi prison guard living in Tennessee gets deported

[The Arizonan]

https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/20/us/nazi-guard-deported-trnd/index.html

It’s a travesty that this goosestepper evaded justice for so long. If he lived in my neighborhood, it would’ve been a different story.

[brucejoel99]

Acting Attorney General Monty Wilkinson said in a statement Berger's deportation "demonstrates the Department of Justice's and its law enforcement partners' commitment to ensuring that the United States is not a safe haven for those who have participated in Nazi crimes against humanity and other human rights abuses."

As a Jewish American, this statement would hold a lot more weight with me if we hadn't waited 'til 1979(!) to create the DOJ's Nazi-finding office & then slowly found & deported extremely old men who'd already lived very safe & full lives in the U.S. after having been young enough to barely even qualify for drafting into low-level military service at the war's end in the 1st place. Compare that to the Nazi's volunteer rocket scientists, all of whom (or, at least, all of those whom the Soviets didn't scoop up before us) got free passes from us. Good ol' America: often doing the right(?) thing only when it's no longer beneficial for us not to do so.

[beaver2.0]

Better late than never.

[Fuzzy Bear]

https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/20/us/nazi-guard-deported-trnd/index.html

It’s a travesty that this goosestepper evaded justice for so long. If he lived in my neighborhood, it would’ve been a different story.

https://www.memphisflyer.com/NewsBlog/archives/2020/12/11/german-prosecutors-drop-case-against-former-nazi-guard

The man is 95 years old now.  He was 19 when he served in the SS in a Concentration Camp.  His time at this job was short and he was not part of the killing, nor did he witness any killing.  These are the findings of a German Court.

"During interrogations in the U.S., the accused admitted that he had guarded prisoners in the Meppen area for several weeks. He did not observe any mistreatment of prisoners. He was not aware of any deaths among the prisoners. He was not used to guard an evacuation march. Additional information is not to be expected when the accused is questioned in Germany."

If the man had been found to have actively participated in murders I'd be less sympathetic, but he was not found to have done so.  He was 19 years old when this happened, and asking for a transfer in the outfit he was with isn't quite like asking the US Army for a reassignment.  It also doesn't mean you'd get one.  He was 19 years old and was only in this possession short term.

I do not know what this man was like in life.  I don't know what he did while in America.  Perhaps this is a just outcome, but I can't square this deporation with the action Biden has taken in halting other deportations that will keep MS-13 gang members (who are committing crimes in the United States in the here and now) from being deported.  This man is 95 years old, he was acquitted of War Crimes in a Court, and he was 19 at the time.  He's not a hero.  But he was a person doing what HE needed to do to keep himself alive in a situation that no 19 year old person should be in.

I will say this:  If this man is to be deported, so be it.  But construction on The Wall needs to be restarted and those who are in INS custody that have so been designated ought to be deported as quickly as possible.  I'll change my mind if you can show me that his role was bigger than what is documented here.  But you haven't done so to date.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Acting Attorney General Monty Wilkinson said in a statement Berger's deportation "demonstrates the Department of Justice's and its law enforcement partners' commitment to ensuring that the United States is not a safe haven for those who have participated in Nazi crimes against humanity and other human rights abuses."

As a Jewish American, this statement would hold a lot more weight with me if we hadn't waited 'til 1979(!) to create the DOJ's Nazi-finding office & then slowly found & deported extremely old men who'd already lived very safe & full lives in the U.S. after having been young enough to barely even qualify for drafting into low-level military service at the war's end in the 1st place. Compare that to the Nazi's volunteer rocket scientists, all of whom (or, at least, all of those whom the Soviets didn't scoop up before us) got free passes from us. Good ol' America: often doing the right(?) thing only when it's no longer beneficial for us not to do so.

The skit at the beginning of Atun Shei Film's episode on Nazi Archeology comes to mind.

[Ferguson97]

Fuzzy Bear and The Reckoning defending a literal Nazi is not surprising.

[AtorBoltox]

A concentration camp guard being unaware of mistreatment of prisoners is so entirely unbelievable it's not surprising Fuzzy accepts it

[Kingpoleon]

I will say this:  If this man is to be deported, so be it.  But construction on The Wall needs to be restarted and those who are in INS custody that have so been designated ought to be deported as quickly as possible.  I'll change my mind if you can show me that his role was bigger than what is documented here.  But you haven't done so to date.

Fuzzy, this is how an ideologically obsessed person talks. You’re upset about a Nazi guard being deported to Germany. Why? Is it a dictatorship noted for its rigged trials?

This is a nonsensical idea that Joe Biden must enforce everything Trump did - when Trump refused to do the same thing on the ACA mandate, and as every President before him has done. You’re so obsessed with the wall you now put it in capital letters, literally deifying it. You demand that Joe Biden, after winning an election, now go back on campaign promises he made to enforce policy created by his predecessor who he beat. That sort of irrational thinking, that liberal politicians should just vote and act as President Fuzzy would, is deeply damaging to the mind and to the soul.

Standard deportations are not the same as extradition, by the way. If Joe Biden halted all extradition, he would be in violation of dozens of international treaties. You suggesting that indicates to me that you seem to have no understanding of how an extradition works, man.

Maybe you should take a break for a couple weeks - you spent almost a week bawling about voter fraud here and accused sixty federal judges of corruption for throwing those cases out. That’s not normal, Fuzzy. You should really talk to your relatives and consider seeing a therapist.

[John Dule]

The concept of “justice” is no more than man’s illusion of being the arbiter of morality.

r/im14andthisisdeep

[Samof94]

The concept of “justice” is no more than man’s illusion of being the arbiter of morality.

Bosnia, Cambodia, Guatemala, and many others have had trials for their genocides.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Regarding the issue of "extradition":  This individual is not being "extradited"; if he were, I would not have a problem with his being sent back to Germany (or wherever).  He has been acquitted in a Court of crimes as far as I can tell.  He's being deported for lying to get into America, and I get that.

His treatment needs to be balanced against Biden's plans to allow criminal illegal aliens (as well as illegal aliens that have not committed criminal offenses while in America) avoid deportation.

[ProudModerate2]

A concentration camp guard being unaware of mistreatment of prisoners is so entirely unbelievable it's not surprising Fuzzy accepts it

[Frozen Sky Ever Why]

https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/20/us/nazi-guard-deported-trnd/index.html

It’s a travesty that this goosestepper evaded justice for so long. If he lived in my neighborhood, it would’ve been a different story.

https://www.memphisflyer.com/NewsBlog/archives/2020/12/11/german-prosecutors-drop-case-against-former-nazi-guard

The man is 95 years old now.  He was 19 when he served in the SS in a Concentration Camp.  His time at this job was short and he was not part of the killing, nor did he witness any killing.  These are the findings of a German Court.

"During interrogations in the U.S., the accused admitted that he had guarded prisoners in the Meppen area for several weeks. He did not observe any mistreatment of prisoners. He was not aware of any deaths among the prisoners. He was not used to guard an evacuation march. Additional information is not to be expected when the accused is questioned in Germany."

If the man had been found to have actively participated in murders I'd be less sympathetic, but he was not found to have done so.  He was 19 years old when this happened, and asking for a transfer in the outfit he was with isn't quite like asking the US Army for a reassignment.  It also doesn't mean you'd get one.  He was 19 years old and was only in this possession short term.

I do not know what this man was like in life.  I don't know what he did while in America.  Perhaps this is a just outcome, but I can't square this deporation with the action Biden has taken in halting other deportations that will keep MS-13 gang members (who are committing crimes in the United States in the here and now) from being deported.  This man is 95 years old, he was acquitted of War Crimes in a Court, and he was 19 at the time.  He's not a hero.  But he was a person doing what HE needed to do to keep himself alive in a situation that no 19 year old person should be in.

I will say this:  If this man is to be deported, so be it.  But construction on The Wall needs to be restarted and those who are in INS custody that have so been designated ought to be deported as quickly as possible.  I'll change my mind if you can show me that his role was bigger than what is documented here.  But you haven't done so to date.

The liberals here don't care. They justified the brutal, murderous ethnic cleansing of Prussians when I brought it up a few days ago. You think they'd give this guy a fair assessment?

[DaleCooper]

Lol, of course the anti-immigration advocates are loath to see a former Nazi get deported from this country. If you're uncomfortable with a concentration camp guard getting deported, please ask yourself why you don't extend that same empathy to illegal immigrants from Latin America that haven't participated in genocide.

[PSOL]

lmao @ this thread.

Nazis get f•••ed

[Santander]

This isn't a case of deporting an old man, it's a case of deporting a young man who spent decades on the run from his crimes. If he's a better man now than he was then, he should accept his fate and face the consequences for his crimes. He got to live a full and free life in until the ripe old age of 95, something his victims never experienced. The US owes him nothing.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Lol, of course the anti-immigration advocates are loath to see a former Nazi get deported from this country. If you're uncomfortable with a concentration camp guard getting deported, please ask yourself why you don't extend that same empathy to illegal immigrants from Latin America that haven't participated in genocide.

https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/criminal-hrsp/legacy/2011/01/31/holtzman-amend.pdf

This issue has been already examined by the German Court.  This individual did not participate in genocide unless you define the term to include merely being assigned to the camp this man (18 at the time, 19 when the war ended) was assigned to.  The German Court has concluded that he did not engage in conduct that would rise to the level of torture or extrajudicial killings.  As horrible as the Holocaust was, and as horrible as many of the individuals that made it happen actually are, there is no evidence that this man was one of those.  

The Holtzman Amendment states that participation in "Nazi Persecutions, genocide, or the commission of any act of torture or extrajudicial killings" is deportable.  If you're defining "Participation in Nazi Persecutions as merely being a guard, not participating in the actual killing, I suppose he'd qualify under that particular technicality.  My college history professor's words during my class "The World At War" where he explained that "washouts" would be sent to the camps as inmates keep coming back to me, and I keep thinking how this 18 year old must have felt having found himself in 1945 as over his head as he was.

Can I have empathy for illegal aliens from Latin America?  Of course I can.  Many are, in fact, coming from Failed States where there is no effective law and order and no real public safety.  It's one thing to consider situations on a case-by-case basis; it's another thing to simply stop enforcing immigration law en masse.  I don't wish to do the latter any more than I wish to repeal the Holtzman Amendment.

[Fuzzy Bear]

This isn't a case of deporting an old man, it's a case of deporting a young man who spent decades on the run from his crimes. If he's a better man now than he was then, he should accept his fate and face the consequences for his crimes. He got to live a full and free life in until the ripe old age of 95, something his victims never experienced. The US owes him nothing.

I would agree with you that the US owes him nothing.  Will you concede that the US owes illegal aliens of all kinds nothing?  (I realize that question is deeper than it seems at a number of levels.)

[Fuzzy Bear]

Where did I defend a Nazi? All I’m saying is, throwing this 95 year old in prison for something that he did 75 years ago when he poses no threat to the world today isn’t making the world a better place. He was a teenager, and teenagers make mistakes. If he had said no, he might have ended up where he was guarding.

And you calling someone a Nazi for something they did 75 years in the past, and not allowing any room for development, is rather against the whole liberal idea of “people can change, 2nd chances, etc.”- one of the ideas that has contributed the most to the development of a civil society today.

Report his post.  I already did.

People feel free to call others "racists" and "Nazis" around here.  It's actually against the ToS.  Report them.  Report them every time. 

This issue is about principles of justice, mercy, consistency, levels of guilt, and the ability to consider the totality of circumstances.

[lfromnj]

Fuzzy Bear and The Reckoning defending a literal Nazi is not surprising.

Where did I defend a Nazi? All I’m saying is, throwing this 95 year old in prison for something that he did 75 years ago when he poses no threat to the world today isn’t making the world a better place. He was a teenager, and teenagers make mistakes. If he had said no, he might have ended up where he was guarding.

And you calling someone a Nazi for something they did 75 years in the past, and not allowing any room for development, is rather against the whole liberal idea of “people can change, 2nd chances, etc.”- one of the ideas that has contributed the most to the development of a civil society today.

Getting deported to Germany is hardly the end of the world.

[John Dule]

Fuzzy Bear and The Reckoning defending a literal Nazi is not surprising.

Where did I defend a Nazi? All I’m saying is, throwing this 95 year old in prison for something that he did 75 years ago when he poses no threat to the world today isn’t making the world a better place. He was a teenager, and teenagers make mistakes. If he had said no, he might have ended up where he was guarding.

And you calling someone a Nazi for something they did 75 years in the past, and not allowing any room for development, is rather against the whole liberal idea of “people can change, 2nd chances, etc.”- one of the ideas that has contributed the most to the development of a civil society today.

Getting deported to Germany is hardly the end of the world.

I don’t really care honestly, but I just think there is no point.

There is no statute of limitations on genocide.

[Santander]

Fuzzy Bear and The Reckoning defending a literal Nazi is not surprising.

Where did I defend a Nazi? All I’m saying is, throwing this 95 year old in prison for something that he did 75 years ago when he poses no threat to the world today isn’t making the world a better place. He was a teenager, and teenagers make mistakes. If he had said no, he might have ended up where he was guarding.

And you calling someone a Nazi for something they did 75 years in the past, and not allowing any room for development, is rather against the whole liberal idea of “people can change, 2nd chances, etc.”- one of the ideas that has contributed the most to the development of a civil society today.

Getting deported to Germany is hardly the end of the world.

I don’t really care honestly, but I just think there is no point.

There is no statute of limitations on genocide.

The idea of “prison for punishment” is one of the most barbaric practices that exists in the developed world. Capital punishment is first, but that is already banned in most places.

Whether he serves time in prison is up to the German government and courts. But that doesn't mean he should be allowed to stay in the US and escape justice entirely.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Fuzzy Bear and The Reckoning defending a literal Nazi is not surprising.

Where did I defend a Nazi? All I’m saying is, throwing this 95 year old in prison for something that he did 75 years ago when he poses no threat to the world today isn’t making the world a better place. He was a teenager, and teenagers make mistakes. If he had said no, he might have ended up where he was guarding.

And you calling someone a Nazi for something they did 75 years in the past, and not allowing any room for development, is rather against the whole liberal idea of “people can change, 2nd chances, etc.”- one of the ideas that has contributed the most to the development of a civil society today.

Getting deported to Germany is hardly the end of the world.

I don’t really care honestly, but I just think there is no point.

There is no statute of limitations on genocide.

The German courts have already ruled on the issue of genocide:

https://www.memphisflyer.com/NewsBlog/archives/2020/12/11/german-prosecutors-drop-case-against-former-nazi-guard

“Between December 26th, 1944 and March 25th, 1945, a total of 379 prisoners died in both camps and on the evacuation marches. Specific acts of intentional killing were only documented in isolated cases in the two camps, but not during the evacuation marches.

“During interrogations in the U.S., the accused admitted that he had guarded prisoners in the Meppen area for several weeks. He did not observe any mistreatment of prisoners. He was not aware of any deaths among the prisoners. He was not used to guard an evacuation march. Additional information is not to be expected when the accused is questioned in Germany.

“This admission cannot be refuted to the accused. The granted guarding of prisoners in a concentration camp, which was not used for the systematic killing of the prisoners, is not sufficient as such to prove the crime.

“The U.S. Department of Justice investigation has not linked the accused to any specific killing, in which the accused may have been an accessory.

“No further evidence is available. Surviving prisoners from the two camps are not known. The existing written material was fully evaluated.

[Horus]

Fuzzy Bear and The Reckoning defending a literal Nazi is not surprising.

Where did I defend a Nazi? All I’m saying is, throwing this 95 year old in prison for something that he did 75 years ago when he poses no threat to the world today isn’t making the world a better place. He was a teenager, and teenagers make mistakes. If he had said no, he might have ended up where he was guarding.

And you calling someone a Nazi for something they did 75 years in the past, and not allowing any room for development, is rather against the whole liberal idea of “people can change, 2nd chances, etc.”- one of the ideas that has contributed the most to the development of a civil society today.

Getting deported to Germany is hardly the end of the world.

I don’t really care honestly, but I just think there is no point.

There is no statute of limitations on genocide.

The idea of “prison for punishment” is one of the most barbaric practices that exists in the developed world. Capital punishment is first, but that is already banned in most places.

So you have a problem with prison and capital punishment but just a few weeks ago you were defending Rittenhouse.

Do you prefer vigilante justice?

[TJ in Oregon]

The concept of “justice” is no more than man’s illusion of being the arbiter of morality.

Man has been debating the meaning of justice for many years, but to my knowledge only the hardest of materialists have denied its existence altogether. Fundamentally, there is an aspect of justice that is rendering until someone what they are due. Without justice as a real moral principle, guilt and innocence do not matter, nor do credit and debit. The concept of owing anything to anyone would be, at best, a convenient moral fiction agreed to by social contract insofar as it increases utility. Retribution for sin, if such exists at all, would be naught but an arbitrary whim; the answer to the Problem of Evil would be that there is no such thing as good or evil in any real sense. Christianity, along with most other religions would make no sense.

It is not the concept of justice that gives man the illusion of being an arbiter of morality, but its abolition that does, by rendering guilt or innocence irrelevant.