WaPo: The Republican Party's base has an "ugly authoritarian core"

[ηєω ƒяσηтιєя]

https://twitter.com/ThePlumLineGS/status/1350109485482844160
All decent Republicans (including those on this forum) should register as independents.

There is NO "saving" the GOP. For decades, the Republican Party's establishment allowed this element to spread within the party. Now, it has fully consumed the party.

[Badger]

Yeah, I could almost buy into those who say they have to stay in the party to fight to remove the influences of trumpism, but it seems more and more that they just can't abide the thought that the necessary sacrifice of shattering trumps political coalition would result in the even greater evil, in their minds, of Democrats possibly being the dominant political power for at least the next few years.

Let me see more than one Republican in 20, even those like osr who held the moral line against voting for Trump, actually abandon all the other Republican officials who solidly encouraged and enabled Trump's incitement to treason. At last count that includes 139 members of the House GOP caucus, and eight of its Senators, including three 2024 presidential front-runners, plus numerous Governors, attorney generals, Etc, plus literally thousands of state legislators from across the country. Even if you discount the literal couple of congressmen WHO opposed certification but found the guts necessary to support Trump's impeachment, you're still talking about two-thirds of the Congressional house delegation, and the odds-on likelihood of their 2024 presidential standard-bearer. Heck, even that Ultra generous assessment forgives every Republican but Romney for opposing Trump's impeachment the first time around which he in retrospect so desperately deserved. Even THAT Uber generous definition includes those Republicans home, even after four years of utterly shameful, disastrous, and self-serving traitorous rule by Trump, still in retrospect don't wish even grudgingly that Clinton had beaten him for the good of the country.

No, sadly it seems literally about 95% of Republicans are all too willing to Simply repeat the same mistakes rather than risk losing a single yard of political power to the evil Democrats. And the problem is we as a country are the ones that pay for it as demonstrated last week, not just themselves.

 I'd love to be proven wrong, but so far the clear impression I'm getting from almost every Republican across-the-board, even those who didn't like Trump, is that once Trump's gone next Wednesday it's business as usual and no real changes are necessary. And thus none will occur , and our country's democratic system accordingly remains in dire Danger from a post-Trump, but not post-Trumpist, Republican Party.

[Hermit For Peace]

Hillary knew what to call them.

She was way ahead of everyone else.

[John Dule]

I've never had any respect for people who call themselves "libertarians" but vote Republican.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Id be an Independent if I didnt live in a closed primary state

[anthonyjg]

Those numbers are shockingly low

[DaleCooper]

Those numbers are disturbing but it also goes to show that the Republican Party is on thin ice in terms of maintaining their coalition. 44% of Republicans in this poll at least partially blame the sitting Republican president for instigating a deadly riot at the capitol. Needless to say, the GOP can't afford to alienate 44% of its voters, but even if they cede just 5% of those voters to Democrats or third parties or "none of the above" then they're going to lose in 2024. I don't want to underestimate how much they still have to gain from rural or ancestral Democratic areas, but I don't think that it's as much as they still have to lose in the suburbs. This direction also doesn't help expand whatever inroads they were supposedly making with black and hispanic voters.

[Badger]

Id be an Independent if I didnt live in a closed primary state

I have to admit that's both shocking, as well as encouragingly honorable.

Now can you do something about the other 90+% of your party?

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

I've never had any respect for people who call themselves "libertarians" but vote Republican.

People who are literally the definition of authoritarian populists but identify as libertarians or classical liberals are easily the most insufferable people on earth. Besides, it's been obvious for a decade that supporting the Democratic Party (or at least, not supporting the Republican party) is the only reasonable choice for Libertarians with functional critical thinking skills.

[Torie]

Badger and I have been around here since rocks cooled, and we started out as Republicans. Back then politics as compared to now seemed so benign, and was about fiscal policy and tax rates, and what kind of foreign policy was prudent, and where for most of us, demonizing the other side was not looked upon with favor. Reasonable people can reasonably disagree. Now it is so toxic, and some of the elected persons in our government with considerable power and influence seem to me to be demagogues, or crazy, or hateful, or all three.

When Trump took over my former party, I knew things had changed in a way that was probably irreversible. It proved possible, beyond the issues, for people to assume power who were obviously unfit for office. So I turned to local politics, and wrestling with issues and challenges in my community. While very happy in my personal life, despite some physical challenges, I feel depressed about the condition of our public square.

I would like to believe that the spell of Trumpism will lose its potency over time, but I think the odds of that are not very high. We can't go home again. Younger generations in particular have great challenges ahead of them. I wish them all the best of luck, and wisdom.

[Former President tack50]

I've never had any respect for people who call themselves "libertarians" but vote Republican.

I mean, libertarians are just Republicans who happen to like weed (/s, though I am only half-joking there, I know plenty of so-called libertarians who are just generic conservatives)

[Former President tack50]

Badger and I have been around here since rocks cooled, and we started out as Republicans. Back then politics as compared to now seemed so benign, and was about fiscal policy and tax rates, and what kind of foreign policy was prudent, and where for most of us, demonizing the other side was not looked upon with favor. Reasonable people can reasonably disagree. Now it is so toxic, and some of the elected persons in our government with considerable power and influence seem to me to be demagogues, or crazy, or hateful, or all three.

When Trump took over my former party, I knew things had changed in a way that was probably irreversible. It proved possible, beyond the issues, for people to assume power who were obviously unfit for office. So I turned to local politics, and wrestling with issues and challenges in my community. While very happy in my personal life, despite some physical challenges, I feel depressed about the condition of our public square.

I would like to believe that the spell of Trumpism will lose its potency over time, but I think the odds of that are not very high. We can't go home again. Younger generations in particular have great challenges ahead of them. I wish them all the best of luck, and wisdom.

I know you were a "real" republican way back in the day, but was Badger ever a bona fide Republican (as opposed to a RINO)

I thought Badger was always a registered Republican just because he lives in an R+9999 county and wanted to have some influence on local offices or something like that, but always held the same political views?

[ElectionsGuy]

I've never had any respect for people who call themselves "libertarians" but vote Republican.

Dude... You can be a libertarian, not believe any of the nuttery that was asked in the poll, and still vote Republican for a multitude of other reasons, as I have done before. It has to do with the weighting and importance of certain issues. I guess you have no respect for me, somebody who agrees with you on almost every issue. I know many libertarians, yes real libertarians, that voted for Trump for real reasons (namely the authoritarian lockdown policies advocated by the Democrats, which you seem to not talk about to get popularity by the red avatars). This kind of self-righteousness is toxic and disgusting, and it's very unfortunate that a "true libertarian" like yourself is engaging in it, but it is likely that I'll be attacked viciously for even saying this.

[Hammy]

Is the poll based on party identification or actual registration? I imagine a lot of people are registered but no longer identifying with the party in these polls, inflating the numbers.

[Badger]

Badger and I have been around here since rocks cooled, and we started out as Republicans. Back then politics as compared to now seemed so benign, and was about fiscal policy and tax rates, and what kind of foreign policy was prudent, and where for most of us, demonizing the other side was not looked upon with favor. Reasonable people can reasonably disagree. Now it is so toxic, and some of the elected persons in our government with considerable power and influence seem to me to be demagogues, or crazy, or hateful, or all three.

When Trump took over my former party, I knew things had changed in a way that was probably irreversible. It proved possible, beyond the issues, for people to assume power who were obviously unfit for office. So I turned to local politics, and wrestling with issues and challenges in my community. While very happy in my personal life, despite some physical challenges, I feel depressed about the condition of our public square.

I would like to believe that the spell of Trumpism will lose its potency over time, but I think the odds of that are not very high. We can't go home again. Younger generations in particular have great challenges ahead of them. I wish them all the best of luck, and wisdom.

I know you were a "real" republican way back in the day, but was Badger ever a bona fide Republican (as opposed to a RINO)

I thought Badger was always a registered Republican just because he lives in an R+9999 county and wanted to have some influence on local offices or something like that, but always held the same political views?

No and yes, respectively.

[Torie]

In contradistinction to Badger, I do admit my political views have changed some, from a bit right of center overall, to a bit left of center. But the transition of the GOP I think has been considerably more substantial than mine.

On a social level, I have always typically (not always of course) been most comfortable spending time with people that tend to be more liberal. In part, that is because I found them as a generalization to be less strident and more intellectual, and yes, more secular. Obviously these days among politicians, at least, both parties appear to have a greater degree of stridency than I recall back when. Maybe that merely reflects the syndrome of  an old geezer seeing the past on some things through rose colored glasses. That possibility  I admit is more than remote!

[Badger]

I've never had any respect for people who call themselves "libertarians" but vote Republican.

Dude... You can be a libertarian, not believe any of the nuttery that was asked in the poll, and still vote Republican for a multitude of other reasons, as I have done before. It has to do with the weighting and importance of certain issues. I guess you have no respect for me, somebody who agrees with you on almost every issue. I know many libertarians, yes real libertarians, that voted for Trump for real reasons (namely the authoritarian lockdown policies advocated by the Democrats, which you seem to not talk about to get popularity by the red avatars). This kind of self-righteousness is toxic and disgusting, and it's very unfortunate that a "true libertarian" like yourself is engaging in it, but it is likely that I'll be attacked viciously for even saying this.

Is there anything that could possibly lead one to consider that those Libertarians who voted for Trump out of concern of authoritarianism just might, possibly, have been mistaken to their core? Anything at all?

[OSR stands with Israel]

Badger and I have been around here since rocks cooled, and we started out as Republicans. Back then politics as compared to now seemed so benign, and was about fiscal policy and tax rates, and what kind of foreign policy was prudent, and where for most of us, demonizing the other side was not looked upon with favor. Reasonable people can reasonably disagree. Now it is so toxic, and some of the elected persons in our government with considerable power and influence seem to me to be demagogues, or crazy, or hateful, or all three.

When Trump took over my former party, I knew things had changed in a way that was probably irreversible. It proved possible, beyond the issues, for people to assume power who were obviously unfit for office. So I turned to local politics, and wrestling with issues and challenges in my community. While very happy in my personal life, despite some physical challenges, I feel depressed about the condition of our public square.

I would like to believe that the spell of Trumpism will lose its potency over time, but I think the odds of that are not very high. We can't go home again. Younger generations in particular have great challenges ahead of them. I wish them all the best of luck, and wisdom.

I know you were a "real" republican way back in the day, but was Badger ever a bona fide Republican (as opposed to a RINO)

I thought Badger was always a registered Republican just because he lives in an R+9999 county and wanted to have some influence on local offices or something like that, but always held the same political views?

No and yes, respectively.

Have you ever voted for a Republican for presidential , gubernatorial or senatorial contest

[Badger]

Badger and I have been around here since rocks cooled, and we started out as Republicans. Back then politics as compared to now seemed so benign, and was about fiscal policy and tax rates, and what kind of foreign policy was prudent, and where for most of us, demonizing the other side was not looked upon with favor. Reasonable people can reasonably disagree. Now it is so toxic, and some of the elected persons in our government with considerable power and influence seem to me to be demagogues, or crazy, or hateful, or all three.

When Trump took over my former party, I knew things had changed in a way that was probably irreversible. It proved possible, beyond the issues, for people to assume power who were obviously unfit for office. So I turned to local politics, and wrestling with issues and challenges in my community. While very happy in my personal life, despite some physical challenges, I feel depressed about the condition of our public square.

I would like to believe that the spell of Trumpism will lose its potency over time, but I think the odds of that are not very high. We can't go home again. Younger generations in particular have great challenges ahead of them. I wish them all the best of luck, and wisdom.

I know you were a "real" republican way back in the day, but was Badger ever a bona fide Republican (as opposed to a RINO)

I thought Badger was always a registered Republican just because he lives in an R+9999 county and wanted to have some influence on local offices or something like that, but always held the same political views?

No and yes, respectively.

Have you ever voted for a Republican for presidential , gubernatorial or senatorial contest

I voted for Barbara Hafer in Pennsylvania in 1990, and Kasich in 2014.

I've never remotely considered voting Republican for president since I was first old enough to do so in 1988. I think history is on my side in this regard.

[John Dule]

I've never had any respect for people who call themselves "libertarians" but vote Republican.

Dude... You can be a libertarian, not believe any of the nuttery that was asked in the poll, and still vote Republican for a multitude of other reasons, as I have done before. It has to do with the weighting and importance of certain issues. I guess you have no respect for me, somebody who agrees with you on almost every issue. I know many libertarians, yes real libertarians, that voted for Trump for real reasons (namely the authoritarian lockdown policies advocated by the Democrats, which you seem to not talk about to get popularity by the red avatars). This kind of self-righteousness is toxic and disgusting, and it's very unfortunate that a "true libertarian" like yourself is engaging in it, but it is likely that I'll be attacked viciously for even saying this.

So let me get this straight: We have a president who orchestrated a (failed) fascist coup by marching his violent inbred supporters to the Capitol in order to murder and kidnap our elected representatives. He has expressed a willingness to quash free speech, a genuine hatred for nonwhite people, and has routinely attempted to undermine our democratic processes and institutions via dictatorial fiat. He has appointed activist right-wing judges who will attempt to eliminate abortion rights, and he used his position as president to embezzle taxpayer dollars. He used US aid-- which was approved by congress-- to extort a foreign leader into participating in a smear campaign against his political opponent. He gassed peaceful protesters and has turned a blind eye to human rights violations worldwide, including the Uyghur concentration camps and the killing of Jamal Khashoggi. He has used the pardoning power to pardon dozens of people implicated in his scandals and schemes, including a disgraced US general who has publicly called for "suspending the Constitution" in order to turn this country into a dictatorship.

And your response to all of this is to say "But what about muh restaurants? Why can't I sit indoors and cough on other people in peace?"

LOL, just freaking LOL.

[Calthrina950]

I've never had any respect for people who call themselves "libertarians" but vote Republican.

Dude... You can be a libertarian, not believe any of the nuttery that was asked in the poll, and still vote Republican for a multitude of other reasons, as I have done before. It has to do with the weighting and importance of certain issues. I guess you have no respect for me, somebody who agrees with you on almost every issue. I know many libertarians, yes real libertarians, that voted for Trump for real reasons (namely the authoritarian lockdown policies advocated by the Democrats, which you seem to not talk about to get popularity by the red avatars). This kind of self-righteousness is toxic and disgusting, and it's very unfortunate that a "true libertarian" like yourself is engaging in it, but it is likely that I'll be attacked viciously for even saying this.

So let me get this straight: We have a president who orchestrated a (failed) fascist coup by marching his violent inbred supporters to the Capitol in order to murder and kidnap our elected representatives. He has expressed a willingness to quash free speech, a genuine hatred for nonwhite people, and has routinely attempted to undermine our democratic processes and institutions via dictatorial fiat. He has appointed activist right-wing judges who will attempt to eliminate abortion rights, and he used his position as president to embezzle taxpayer dollars. He used US aid-- which was approved by congress-- to extort a foreign leader into participating in a smear campaign against his political opponent. He gassed peaceful protesters and has turned a blind eye to human rights violations worldwide, including the Uyghur concentration camps and the killing of Jamal Khashoggi. He has used the pardoning power to pardon dozens of people implicated in his scandals and schemes, including a disgraced US general who has publicly called for "suspending the Constitution" in order to turn this country into a dictatorship.

And your response to all of this is to say "But what about muh restaurants? Why can't I sit indoors and cough on other people in peace?"

LOL, just freaking LOL.

I've made clear my views about what happened at the Capitol last week, and Trump's role in it, but I'm surprised you would say something like this. The irony is that you seem to be justifying ElectionGuy's criticism of you on this point. I don't think it's fair to boil down the anti-lockdown argument in such a form, considering that many small business officers have experienced genuine financial damage from the impacts of the various lockdowns over the past years. Not all of those who are against lockdowns hold such a position out of personal selfishness.

[Progressive Pessimist]

No s***. It was always there though. As with most dark presences and impulses in our country, and especially within the GOP, Trump merely accelerated them.

[Badger]

I've never had any respect for people who call themselves "libertarians" but vote Republican.

Dude... You can be a libertarian, not believe any of the nuttery that was asked in the poll, and still vote Republican for a multitude of other reasons, as I have done before. It has to do with the weighting and importance of certain issues. I guess you have no respect for me, somebody who agrees with you on almost every issue. I know many libertarians, yes real libertarians, that voted for Trump for real reasons (namely the authoritarian lockdown policies advocated by the Democrats, which you seem to not talk about to get popularity by the red avatars). This kind of self-righteousness is toxic and disgusting, and it's very unfortunate that a "true libertarian" like yourself is engaging in it, but it is likely that I'll be attacked viciously for even saying this.

So let me get this straight: We have a president who orchestrated a (failed) fascist coup by marching his violent inbred supporters to the Capitol in order to murder and kidnap our elected representatives. He has expressed a willingness to quash free speech, a genuine hatred for nonwhite people, and has routinely attempted to undermine our democratic processes and institutions via dictatorial fiat. He has appointed activist right-wing judges who will attempt to eliminate abortion rights, and he used his position as president to embezzle taxpayer dollars. He used US aid-- which was approved by congress-- to extort a foreign leader into participating in a smear campaign against his political opponent. He gassed peaceful protesters and has turned a blind eye to human rights violations worldwide, including the Uyghur concentration camps and the killing of Jamal Khashoggi. He has used the pardoning power to pardon dozens of people implicated in his scandals and schemes, including a disgraced US general who has publicly called for "suspending the Constitution" in order to turn this country into a dictatorship.

And your response to all of this is to say "But what about muh restaurants? Why can't I sit indoors and cough on other people in peace?"

LOL, just freaking LOL.

I've made clear my views about what happened at the Capitol last week, and Trump's role in it, but I'm surprised you would say something like this. The irony is that you seem to be justifying ElectionGuy's criticism of you on this point. I don't think it's fair to boil down the anti-lockdown argument in such a form, considering that many small business officers have experienced genuine financial damage from the impacts of the various lockdowns over the past years. Not all of those who are against lockdowns hold such a position out of personal selfishness.

JD's very astute point was not that one couldn't validly object to aggressive lockdown policies. Rather, his very accurate criticism is that any libertarian, party purportedly founded on the basis of Liberty itself, to consider such policies even remotely in the same universe has Trump's authoritarianism as a danger to " Liberty" is Ludacris.

It's kind of additional evidence the libertarian party is a fanatic anti government regulation party, but push comes to shove their okay with a little like fascism on the side to get their way.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

"the mob at the capitol is evidence no true libertarian can possibly vote R" argument falls apart when you realize you are positing that a libertarian has to vote for a political party that has advocated gun control policies fairly regularly, policies that frequently are drawn up in ignorance to how guns actually work.

[Calthrina950]

I've never had any respect for people who call themselves "libertarians" but vote Republican.

Dude... You can be a libertarian, not believe any of the nuttery that was asked in the poll, and still vote Republican for a multitude of other reasons, as I have done before. It has to do with the weighting and importance of certain issues. I guess you have no respect for me, somebody who agrees with you on almost every issue. I know many libertarians, yes real libertarians, that voted for Trump for real reasons (namely the authoritarian lockdown policies advocated by the Democrats, which you seem to not talk about to get popularity by the red avatars). This kind of self-righteousness is toxic and disgusting, and it's very unfortunate that a "true libertarian" like yourself is engaging in it, but it is likely that I'll be attacked viciously for even saying this.

So let me get this straight: We have a president who orchestrated a (failed) fascist coup by marching his violent inbred supporters to the Capitol in order to murder and kidnap our elected representatives. He has expressed a willingness to quash free speech, a genuine hatred for nonwhite people, and has routinely attempted to undermine our democratic processes and institutions via dictatorial fiat. He has appointed activist right-wing judges who will attempt to eliminate abortion rights, and he used his position as president to embezzle taxpayer dollars. He used US aid-- which was approved by congress-- to extort a foreign leader into participating in a smear campaign against his political opponent. He gassed peaceful protesters and has turned a blind eye to human rights violations worldwide, including the Uyghur concentration camps and the killing of Jamal Khashoggi. He has used the pardoning power to pardon dozens of people implicated in his scandals and schemes, including a disgraced US general who has publicly called for "suspending the Constitution" in order to turn this country into a dictatorship.

And your response to all of this is to say "But what about muh restaurants? Why can't I sit indoors and cough on other people in peace?"

LOL, just freaking LOL.

I've made clear my views about what happened at the Capitol last week, and Trump's role in it, but I'm surprised you would say something like this. The irony is that you seem to be justifying ElectionGuy's criticism of you on this point. I don't think it's fair to boil down the anti-lockdown argument in such a form, considering that many small business officers have experienced genuine financial damage from the impacts of the various lockdowns over the past years. Not all of those who are against lockdowns hold such a position out of personal selfishness.

JD's very astute point was not that one couldn't validly object to aggressive lockdown policies. Rather, his very accurate criticism is that any libertarian, party purportedly founded on the basis of Liberty itself, to consider such policies even remotely in the same universe has Trump's authoritarianism as a danger to " Liberty" is Ludacris.

It's kind of additional evidence the libertarian party is a fanatic anti government regulation party, but push comes to shove their okay with a little like fascism on the side to get their way.

Ought John Dule to be a Democrat then? I don't fully understand this position. That one can't be a Libertarian because it means that they are embracing nonsensical and absurd policies? Or one could claim to be "Libertarian", but espouse the political positions of either the Democratic or Republican Party? At any rate, I certainly think that what Trump and his supporters did last week is far more threatening to the stability of our democracy then the lockdown restrictions which have been imposed-at least, that it was a more immediate, direct, and alarming threat. But I don't think that all criticism of lockdown policies should be dismissed so quickly.