Trump on Mocking Christine Ford at Rally: ‘It Doesn’t Matter. We Won’
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
May 06, 2024, 05:45:56 AM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Politics
  U.S. General Discussion (Moderators: The Dowager Mod, Chancellor Tanterterg)
  Trump on Mocking Christine Ford at Rally: ‘It Doesn’t Matter. We Won’
« previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] 3
Author Topic: Trump on Mocking Christine Ford at Rally: ‘It Doesn’t Matter. We Won’  (Read 5180 times)
Progressive Pessimist
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 33,372
United States


Political Matrix
E: -6.71, S: -7.65

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #25 on: October 16, 2018, 07:11:57 PM »


I mean, at the end of the day, you guys are the ones who have to live with yourselves.  Unless you guys genuinely believe that all of the allegations against Kavanaugh were unquestionably a vast left-wing conspiracy, this sort of blasé attitude about the matter is not just morally revolting, but inching towards an outright evil worldview where you don't care about rape, sexual assault, etc as much as you do about being able to do a Nelson Muntz-style "HaHa" for a month (at most).  I mean, there's none of the nuance or genuinely thoughtful commentary that we've seen from folks like Fuzzy, your posts are just you guys reveling in your own amorality.  Not gonna lie, I really thought both you guys were better than that, but I guess not Sad
I don't think it's a "conspiracy" but I definitely think all of these accusations were completely made up in order to prevent Kavanaugh from being appointed, and used by Democrats in order to potentially block his nomination and perhaps make sure Republicans could appoint one fewer SCOTUS justice.

That pretty much is the definition of a conspiracy...
Logged
Joe Biden 2024
Gorguf
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,378


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #26 on: October 16, 2018, 07:12:22 PM »


I mean, at the end of the day, you guys are the ones who have to live with yourselves.  Unless you guys genuinely believe that all of the allegations against Kavanaugh were unquestionably a vast left-wing conspiracy, this sort of blasé attitude about the matter is not just morally revolting, but inching towards an outright evil worldview where you don't care about rape, sexual assault, etc as much as you do about being able to do a Nelson Muntz-style "HaHa" for a month (at most).  I mean, there's none of the nuance or genuinely thoughtful commentary that we've seen from folks like Fuzzy, your posts are just you guys reveling in your own amorality.  Not gonna lie, I really thought both you guys were better than that, but I guess not Sad
I don't think it's a "conspiracy" but I definitely think all of these accusations were completely made up in order to prevent Kavanaugh from being appointed, and used by Democrats in order to potentially block his nomination and perhaps make sure Republicans could appoint one fewer SCOTUS justice.

Yes, because making up all those accusations is so much more believable than, you know, him actually doing what they accused him of.
Logged
DavidB.
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 13,618
Israel


Political Matrix
E: 0.58, S: 4.26


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #27 on: October 16, 2018, 07:14:16 PM »


I mean, at the end of the day, you guys are the ones who have to live with yourselves.  Unless you guys genuinely believe that all of the allegations against Kavanaugh were unquestionably a vast left-wing conspiracy, this sort of blasé attitude about the matter is not just morally revolting, but inching towards an outright evil worldview where you don't care about rape, sexual assault, etc as much as you do about being able to do a Nelson Muntz-style "HaHa" for a month (at most).  I mean, there's none of the nuance or genuinely thoughtful commentary that we've seen from folks like Fuzzy, your posts are just you guys reveling in your own amorality.  Not gonna lie, I really thought both you guys were better than that, but I guess not Sad
I don't think it's a "conspiracy" but I definitely think all of these accusations were completely made up in order to prevent Kavanaugh from being appointed, and used by Democrats in order to potentially block his nomination and perhaps make sure Republicans could appoint one fewer SCOTUS justice.

Yes, because making up all those accusations is so much more believable than, you know, him actually doing what they accused him of.
As long as there is no evidence - yes.
Logged
Chancellor Tanterterg
Mr. X
Moderator
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 26,372
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #28 on: October 16, 2018, 08:12:47 PM »


I mean, at the end of the day, you guys are the ones who have to live with yourselves.  Unless you guys genuinely believe that all of the allegations against Kavanaugh were unquestionably a vast left-wing conspiracy, this sort of blasé attitude about the matter is not just morally revolting, but inching towards an outright evil worldview where you don't care about rape, sexual assault, etc as much as you do about being able to do a Nelson Muntz-style "HaHa" for a month (at most).  I mean, there's none of the nuance or genuinely thoughtful commentary that we've seen from folks like Fuzzy, your posts are just you guys reveling in your own amorality.  Not gonna lie, I really thought both you guys were better than that, but I guess not Sad
I don't think it's a "conspiracy" but I definitely think all of these accusations were completely made up in order to prevent Kavanaugh from being appointed, and used by Democrats in order to potentially block his nomination and perhaps make sure Republicans could appoint one fewer SCOTUS justice.

Yes, because making up all those accusations is so much more believable than, you know, him actually doing what they accused him of.
As long as there is no evidence - yes.

What about the therapy notes from 2012, the contrast between Kavanaugh and Ford’s sworn testimony, Kavanaugh’s perjury about his drinking, Kavanaugh’s perjury about when he learned of Ramirez’s allegations, the polygraph test, and the fact that there are witnesses supporting Ramirez’s allegations?  You don’t consider any of that evidence?  You don’t think it’s even possible that maybe...just maybe there might be some truth to Ramirez and/or Ford’s allegations?  Side note: This idea that sworn testimony isn’t evidence needs to die.  Victim testimony is good enough to be treated as evidence in criminal court Tongue
Logged
OneJ
OneJ_
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,833
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #29 on: October 16, 2018, 08:20:23 PM »

Owning the libs once again...
Logged
Fuzzy Bear
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 25,808
United States


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #30 on: October 16, 2018, 08:34:30 PM »


I mean, at the end of the day, you guys are the ones who have to live with yourselves.  Unless you guys genuinely believe that all of the allegations against Kavanaugh were unquestionably a vast left-wing conspiracy, this sort of blasé attitude about the matter is not just morally revolting, but inching towards an outright evil worldview where you don't care about rape, sexual assault, etc as much as you do about being able to do a Nelson Muntz-style "HaHa" for a month (at most).  I mean, there's none of the nuance or genuinely thoughtful commentary that we've seen from folks like Fuzzy, your posts are just you guys reveling in your own amorality.  Not gonna lie, I really thought both you guys were better than that, but I guess not Sad
I don't think it's a "conspiracy" but I definitely think all of these accusations were completely made up in order to prevent Kavanaugh from being appointed, and used by Democrats in order to potentially block his nomination and perhaps make sure Republicans could appoint one fewer SCOTUS justice.

Yes, because making up all those accusations is so much more believable than, you know, him actually doing what they accused him of.
As long as there is no evidence - yes.

What about the therapy notes from 2012, the contrast between Kavanaugh and Ford’s sworn testimony, Kavanaugh’s perjury about his drinking, Kavanaugh’s perjury about when he learned of Ramirez’s allegations, the polygraph test, and the fact that there are witnesses supporting Ramirez’s allegations?  You don’t consider any of that evidence?  You don’t think it’s even possible that maybe...just maybe there might be some truth to Ramirez and/or Ford’s allegations?  Side note: This idea that sworn testimony isn’t evidence needs to die.  Victim testimony is good enough to be treated as evidence in criminal court Tongue

I've said this a number of times about Kavanaugh:  There IS evidence.  

There is NOT enough evidence to convict Kavanaugh at trial.  (Beyond a Reasonable Doubt)

There is NOT enough evidence to charge Kavanaugh with a crime.  (Probable Cause)

There MAY be "reasonable suspicion" to believe that Kavanaugh committed a crime in the past, and a serious crime.  It is not likely that there will ever be more than that.

Still, would you really want to elevate to the Supreme Court a man who, as a 17 year old, can be reasonably suspected of putting his hand over the mouth of a female victim who was physically helpless while he tried to take her clothes off?  That's a good question.  Would you want such a person to be YOUR attorney?  Would you want such a person to be your PSYCHOTHERAPIST?  Would you want such a person to be YOUR DAUGHTER'S HIGH SCHOOL TEACHER?  I certainly believe that, absent politics, they would not be comfortable if their attorney, their psychotherapist, or their child's teacher suddenly had such an accusation as the one that has come out about Kavanaugh surface about one of those people.  

Kavanaugh doesn't meet the "Above Suspicion" standard.  That's a mighty high standard, but the SCOTUS is a mighty high place.
Logged
Joe Biden 2024
Gorguf
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,378


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #31 on: October 16, 2018, 08:36:45 PM »
« Edited: October 16, 2018, 08:44:05 PM by Sherrod Brown 2020 »


I mean, at the end of the day, you guys are the ones who have to live with yourselves.  Unless you guys genuinely believe that all of the allegations against Kavanaugh were unquestionably a vast left-wing conspiracy, this sort of blasé attitude about the matter is not just morally revolting, but inching towards an outright evil worldview where you don't care about rape, sexual assault, etc as much as you do about being able to do a Nelson Muntz-style "HaHa" for a month (at most).  I mean, there's none of the nuance or genuinely thoughtful commentary that we've seen from folks like Fuzzy, your posts are just you guys reveling in your own amorality.  Not gonna lie, I really thought both you guys were better than that, but I guess not Sad
I don't think it's a "conspiracy" but I definitely think all of these accusations were completely made up in order to prevent Kavanaugh from being appointed, and used by Democrats in order to potentially block his nomination and perhaps make sure Republicans could appoint one fewer SCOTUS justice.

Yes, because making up all those accusations is so much more believable than, you know, him actually doing what they accused him of.
As long as there is no evidence - yes.

Since you're insisting on needing evidence, do you have any evidence that this is all a Democratic conspiracy?
Logged
Tartarus Sauce
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 3,357
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #32 on: October 16, 2018, 08:50:52 PM »

I don't think it's a "conspiracy" but I definitely think all of these accusations were completely made up in order to prevent Kavanaugh from being appointed, and used by Democrats in order to potentially block his nomination and perhaps make sure Republicans could appoint one fewer SCOTUS justice.

Even if it was completely made up, approving of people in positions of power openly mocking sexual assault claims contributes to a culture of silencing real sexual assault victims.
Logged
💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)
peenie_weenie
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,494
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #33 on: October 16, 2018, 11:07:30 PM »

I don't think it's a "conspiracy" but I definitely think all of these accusations were completely made up in order to prevent Kavanaugh from being appointed, and used by Democrats in order to potentially block his nomination and perhaps make sure Republicans could appoint one fewer SCOTUS justice.

Even if it was completely made up, approving of people in positions of power openly mocking sexual assault claims contributes to a culture of silencing real sexual assault victims.

I will bet any amount of money that DavidB and the vast majority of full-throated Kav supporters do not care about silencing real sexual assault victims. Once sexual assault survivors took a side in the culture wars against their own side, the plights of these people became the collateral damage in ensuring that the other side was defeated.
Logged
All Along The Watchtower
Progressive Realist
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,552
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #34 on: October 17, 2018, 12:21:29 AM »
« Edited: October 17, 2018, 12:25:42 AM by PR »


I mean, at the end of the day, you guys are the ones who have to live with yourselves.  Unless you guys genuinely believe that all of the allegations against Kavanaugh were unquestionably a vast left-wing conspiracy, this sort of blasé attitude about the matter is not just morally revolting, but inching towards an outright evil worldview where you don't care about rape, sexual assault, etc as much as you do about being able to do a Nelson Muntz-style "HaHa" for a month (at most).  I mean, there's none of the nuance or genuinely thoughtful commentary that we've seen from folks like Fuzzy, your posts are just you guys reveling in your own amorality.  Not gonna lie, I really thought both you guys were better than that, but I guess not Sad
I don't think it's a "conspiracy" but I definitely think all of these accusations were completely made up in order to prevent Kavanaugh from being appointed, and used by Democrats in order to potentially block his nomination and perhaps make sure Republicans could appoint one fewer SCOTUS justice.

Yes, because making up all those accusations is so much more believable than, you know, him actually doing what they accused him of.
As long as there is no evidence - yes.

Since you're insisting on needing evidence, do you have any evidence that this is all a Democratic conspiracy?

I don't want to put words in his mouth, but I wouldn't be surprised if David basically sees the entire US political "scene" through the lens of who is more fervently pro-Israel. Donald Trump and the Republican Party in general have been very, very fervently pro-Israel. And in the zero-sum/winner-take all, two-party politics that we have in the US, it only makes sense from David's POV for him to express his strong support for Trump and the Republicans. And I honestly don't knock him for that, considering his background and beliefs.

I certainly don't like the mean-spiritedness of his and other Trump supporters's posts on this topic (among others), but that is kind of unavoidable. Politics is bloodsport. Oh well.
Logged
Xing
xingkerui
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 30,283
United States


Political Matrix
E: -6.52, S: -3.91

P P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #35 on: October 17, 2018, 12:40:51 AM »


TIL "Love" is consolidating power through any means necessary and going to any extreme for the sake of "owning" or "triggering" your opponent, which in this case is more than half of the population of the United States. 

Well, once Democrats are in power again, I'm sure conservatives will get plenty of "love" from us. Smiley
Logged
mvd10
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3,709


Political Matrix
E: 2.58, S: -2.61

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #36 on: October 17, 2018, 01:27:13 AM »


TIL "Love" is consolidating power through any means necessary and going to any extreme for the sake of "owning" or "triggering" your opponent, which in this case is more than half of the population of the United States. 

Well, once Democrats are in power again, I'm sure conservatives will get plenty of "love" from us. Smiley

Brett and the 4 other flawless beautiful conservatives will make sure you don't get too crazy with your new laws, in the end it was all about that anyway Smiley.
Logged
Xing
xingkerui
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 30,283
United States


Political Matrix
E: -6.52, S: -3.91

P P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #37 on: October 17, 2018, 01:56:26 AM »


TIL "Love" is consolidating power through any means necessary and going to any extreme for the sake of "owning" or "triggering" your opponent, which in this case is more than half of the population of the United States. 

Well, once Democrats are in power again, I'm sure conservatives will get plenty of "love" from us. Smiley

Brett and the 4 other flawless beautiful conservatives will make sure you don't get too crazy with your new laws, in the end it was all about that anyway Smiley.

Not if they have 6 "opponents" instead of 4. Wink
Logged
MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!
Kalwejt
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,380


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #38 on: October 17, 2018, 02:56:45 AM »


TIL "Love" is consolidating power through any means necessary and going to any extreme for the sake of "owning" or "triggering" your opponent, which in this case is more than half of the population of the United States. 

David's showing his true colors.
Logged
Intell
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,812
Nepal


Political Matrix
E: -6.71, S: -1.24

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #39 on: October 17, 2018, 03:10:51 AM »

Who Care? Bigger issues out there.
Logged
DavidB.
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 13,618
Israel


Political Matrix
E: 0.58, S: 4.26


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #40 on: October 17, 2018, 03:41:19 AM »
« Edited: October 17, 2018, 03:49:16 AM by DavidB. »

Since you're insisting on needing evidence, do you have any evidence that this is all a Democratic conspiracy?
This is not how the presumption of innocence works, sweaty.

What about the therapy notes from 2012, the contrast between Kavanaugh and Ford’s sworn testimony, Kavanaugh’s perjury about his drinking, Kavanaugh’s perjury about when he learned of Ramirez’s allegations, the polygraph test, and the fact that there are witnesses supporting Ramirez’s allegations?  You don’t consider any of that evidence?  You don’t think it’s even possible that maybe...just maybe there might be some truth to Ramirez and/or Ford’s allegations?  Side note: This idea that sworn testimony isn’t evidence needs to die.  Victim testimony is good enough to be treated as evidence in criminal court Tongue
All the allegations were just that: allegations. If the accusers were serious, they would have gone to court. They don't do it, because they know they cannot prove anything. But they don't want the GOP to have another SCOTUS justice so they will go on and on with their allegations anyway. Kavanaugh's perjury is less relevant to me, because none of this would have happened if not for the made-up allegations. And anybody can say anything in a therapy session.

I don't want to put words in his mouth, but I wouldn't be surprised if David basically sees the entire US political "scene" through the lens of who is more fervently pro-Israel.
Not true, otherwise I would have been a huge Republican hack. In reality I have come to loathe the GOP. I just think the Democrats are even worse - for America as much as for Israel. My views on culture wars, immigration, and identity politics should be clear. But my views on the GOP's policies on healthcare, welfare, education, the drug epidemic, etc. etc. are extremely negative too. (Not as if Democrats have really been much better on these issues anyway.)

And besides, it's not as if SCOTUS matters for foreign policy. This has nothing to do with Israel and everything with fairness. Which is why I cared about Kavanaugh being confirmed, because the tactics that were used to attack the former were just unprecedented and utterly unconvincing to me, and it worries me that random allegations with a clear political aim could have been enough to take down an extremely successful and qualified person's career - fortunately this did not happen.

Well, once Democrats are in power again, I'm sure conservatives will get plenty of "love" from us. Smiley
Fully aware. I'm still recovering from all the love Obama gave us, and the next one will be even more loving. That's how politics works. Therefore it's good to consolidate power as much as possible.

Brett and the 4 other flawless beautiful conservatives will make sure you don't get too crazy with your new laws, in the end it was all about that anyway Smiley.
I'm pretty sure Trump is going to get to appoint at least one other SCOTUS justice in the next six years.
Logged
afleitch
Moderators
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 29,885


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #41 on: October 17, 2018, 03:54:54 AM »

Downright ignorance expressed here. Any fool could see that. Very disappointing too. Ignorance really does breed callousness. Desperation on the part of the right to shut discussion of assault down.

Is there anything that can be done? Some understanding surely.

As part of my dealing with assault cases;

Sometimes what's thought as atypical, However disjointed it may be, Is actually a common psychological response. That means that it's very rare. Even atypical to the usual response. But trauma affects recollection. A fully formed memory can be one that later fractures. Generally going to the authorities early would help.

Sometimes, if not most of the time that's difficult. Often affected by attitudes and how seriously allegations are dealt with.

So to have the president mock a victim like that without regard to her lived experience. Undeniably that's someone who doesn't care about women. Callous masculinity from a man who's probably paid off or married those that cause him the slightest 'grievance.' Knowing that is key.

Incredibly the right wing seen to be adopting that worldview. Trumpism is victimhood: it has no time for actual victims.
Logged
MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!
Kalwejt
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,380


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #42 on: October 17, 2018, 04:44:09 AM »

All the allegations were just that: allegations. If the accusers were serious, they would have gone to court. They don't do it, because they know they cannot prove anything. But they don't want the GOP to have another SCOTUS justice so they will go on and on with their allegations anyway. Kavanaugh's perjury is less relevant to me, because none of this would have happened if not for the made-up allegations. And anybody can say anything in a therapy session.

See, there's a little problem with this. It's very easy for you, or anybody else who had no connection with the case, to say "they should've gone to court" or "why come forward now?". Victims of sexual assault (and even Senate Republicans didn't dispute the fact Ford was one, only whether it was Kavanaugh) are understandably hesitant to come forward, and I don't think I need to spell out why.

I don't believe in "guilty until proven innocent" attitude, that is too frequently displayed when sexual abuse allegations are surfacing. This is why serious allegations, especially against a Supreme Court nominee, should have been investigated thoroughly by professionals. If Kavanaugh was in the clear, the probe would show it and he'd come out clean like a rose. Instead while he got confirmed, it'll hang over him and his family for the rest of their lives. The refusal to ask for a probe can only raise more doubts and questions.

As of the "perjury" I can't possibly agree with this being of little importance. A person nominated for a lifetime position on the highest court of the land ought to be held in higher standards. Otherwise let's just drop all the bulls**t about commitment to the rule of law and integrity.
Logged
Chancellor Tanterterg
Mr. X
Moderator
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 26,372
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #43 on: October 17, 2018, 05:39:23 AM »


TIL "Love" is consolidating power through any means necessary and going to any extreme for the sake of "owning" or "triggering" your opponent, which in this case is more than half of the population of the United States. 

Well, once Democrats are in power again, I'm sure conservatives will get plenty of "love" from us. Smiley

Brett and the 4 other flawless beautiful conservatives will make sure you don't get too crazy with your new laws, in the end it was all about that anyway Smiley.

How about we not refer to people accused of attemed rape, sexual assault, perjury, and lacking the requisite objectivity to serve as a judge as “flawless.”  Also, the type of thing you’re talking about would be the definition of a rogue Judiciary.  You know that, right?
Logged
Joe Biden 2024
Gorguf
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,378


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #44 on: October 17, 2018, 06:20:32 AM »
« Edited: October 17, 2018, 06:23:48 AM by Sherrod Brown 2020 »

Since you're insisting on needing evidence, do you have any evidence that this is all a Democratic conspiracy?
This is not how the presumption of innocence works, sweaty.

You insist Kavanaugh is innocent, yet you also insist, without evidence, that the allegations were made up and the Democrats are guilty of a conspiracy.

I will ask my question again. Do you have any evidence that is a Democratic conspiracy or that the allegations were made up? Otherwise, all you have are allegations without evidence. You know, the kind you're complaining about.
Logged
DavidB.
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 13,618
Israel


Political Matrix
E: 0.58, S: 4.26


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #45 on: October 17, 2018, 06:27:49 AM »

Since you're insisting on needing evidence, do you have any evidence that this is all a Democratic conspiracy?
This is not how the presumption of innocence works, sweaty.
You insist Kavanaugh is innocent, yet you also insist, without evidence, that the allegations were made up and the Democrats are guilty of a conspiracy.

I will ask my question again. Do you have any evidence that is a Democratic conspiracy or that the allegations were made up? Otherwise, all you have are allegations without evidence. You know, the kind you're complaining about.
Again: this is not how the presumption of innocence works. You are reversing the burden of proof.

Moreover, I do not think there is a Democratic "conspiracy". I do not think they are "behind" this. I think Ford herself found her chance to take down Kavanaugh because she is a partisan Democrat, and congressional Democrats just seized the opportunity to put her on a pedestal and instrumentalize her - but they don't "pull the strings".

How about we not refer to people accused of attemed rape, sexual assault, perjury, and lacking the requisite objectivity to serve as a judge as “flawless.”  Also, the type of thing you’re talking about would be the definition of a rogue Judiciary.  You know that, right?
If I would accuse you of sexual assault now, out of thin air, would you be suddenly any more "flawed"? Clearly not. So the evidence matters. In the case of Kavanaugh, there is none.
Logged
Chancellor Tanterterg
Mr. X
Moderator
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 26,372
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #46 on: October 17, 2018, 06:47:10 AM »
« Edited: October 17, 2018, 06:50:27 AM by Pope Michael Bolton »

Since you're insisting on needing evidence, do you have any evidence that this is all a Democratic conspiracy?
This is not how the presumption of innocence works, sweaty.
You insist Kavanaugh is innocent, yet you also insist, without evidence, that the allegations were made up and the Democrats are guilty of a conspiracy.

I will ask my question again. Do you have any evidence that is a Democratic conspiracy or that the allegations were made up? Otherwise, all you have are allegations without evidence. You know, the kind you're complaining about.
Again: this is not how the presumption of innocence works. You are reversing the burden of proof.

Moreover, I do not think there is a Democratic "conspiracy". I do not think they are "behind" this. I think Ford herself found her chance to take down Kavanaugh because she is a partisan Democrat, and congressional Democrats just seized the opportunity to put her on a pedestal and instrumentalize her - but they don't "pull the strings".

How about we not refer to people accused of attemed rape, sexual assault, perjury, and lacking the requisite objectivity to serve as a judge as “flawless.”  Also, the type of thing you’re talking about would be the definition of a rogue Judiciary.  You know that, right?
If I would accuse you of sexual assault now, out of thin air, would you be suddenly any more "flawed"? Clearly not. So the evidence matters. In the case of Kavanaugh, there is none.

1) You never addressed most of the evidence that I've already mentioned in this thread, 2) I'm not a Supreme Court nominee; SCOTUS nominees should be held to a higher standard than Joe Sixpack and I'd oppose a Democratic nominee for the Court even if there was even half the evidence we have with Kavanaugh even if it meant that Republicans ended up getting to replace the deciding vote instead of the Democrats (those who know me know I really mean that), 3) Perjury is literally a felony and Kavanaugh has committed it repeatedly during this process even prior to Ford's allegations being reported (the man simply does not respect the rule of law), 4) Kavanaugh has abandoned even a veneer of neutrality and objectivity and that veneer (thin as it can get at times) is vital to the health of the Supreme Court as an institution, 5) the presumption of innocence is not the appropriate standard for a SCOTUS nominee; they must be (as Fuzzy has noted) "above suspicion," 6) what about Ramirez's allegations, 7) if Kavanaugh committed perjury about his drinking then why should we believe anything else he says, 8 ) you did not address the fact that you're literally calling for a rogue activist Supreme Court, 9) what basis do you have for your allegations about Ford?  I've listed numerous pieces of evidence in an earlier post that have informed my view that Ford and Ramirez's allegations are more likely than not to be true.  What evidence is informing your view about the two distinct allegations?
Logged
DavidB.
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 13,618
Israel


Political Matrix
E: 0.58, S: 4.26


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #47 on: October 17, 2018, 06:59:30 AM »

I honestly can't believe people buy the Ford accusations. It was the biggest gaslighting effort in ages and completely insincere, only aimed at partisan goals: slowing down the process in order to make sure Democrats win back the Senate before Kavanaugh could be confirmed. Casting doubt and creating smokescreens for no real reason other than pure partisanship. And it is Democrats who should be ashamed of this, not Republicans. Just like Republicans should be ashamed of not organizing hearings for Merrick Garland.

No, I don't view a testimony as "evidence" in itself, polygraphs are not very reliable, there are holes in Ford's testimony, I don't think Kavanaugh liking beer is a problem, I also don't think Kavanaugh downplaying him liking beer during what is essentially a job interview is a problem, and obviously one can find enough people seconding your story once a SCOTUS nominee of a party disliked in your social circles can be taken down.

I don't know anything about the accusations by people other than Ford, and am not particularly interested in learning more about them. They should have gone to court before if they had a problem with him. End of the story.
Logged
mvd10
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3,709


Political Matrix
E: 2.58, S: -2.61

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #48 on: October 17, 2018, 07:43:32 AM »

Calm down children, I was not entirely serious lol.

But how can we ask anyone to be ''above suspicion''? I found the second and third allegations rather unbelievable. Ford's allegation might have been somewhat credible, but there were major holes and it's in no way enough to ruin someone's career and everything they've worked for. You can't just expect people to make decisions based on your story if you don't have any real proof, that would create a very nasty precedent. It must be incredibly hard for dr. Ford (assuming she believes her own story, which she probably does), but in the end the negative precedent that a Kavanaugh rejection would create quite frankly outweighs her feelings. Kavanaugh's behaviour during the hearings wasn't entirely proper, but I'll give him something of a pass considering the circumstances. Other than that you can't really doubt Kavanaugh's legal credentials. And no, we can't definitively conclude he committed perjury. Perjury has quite a high bar, being less than forecoming or potentially misinterpreting questions doesn't equal perjury. If you consider what Kavanaugh did perjury you're going to have to go after a lot of previous witnesses too lmao.

If something really credible comes up theoretically there always is the possibility of impeachment anyway. Now I know that the GOP congress likely wouldn't do it, but I'm not making policy based on the (nevertheless likely correct) assumption that the GOP congress will be sh**tty.

I don't really think the Kavanaugh situation can be compared to a teacher (credibly) being accused of sexual assault. Assuming Kavanaugh actually did it (I obviously don't think he did it) he still did it while he was a drunk 17-year old. An adult teacher with (credible) accusations is in a place to directly harm even more children. The stakes are much higher for Kavanaugh anyway. I'd just rather not open Pandora's box and create a situation where a story can ruin every man's life.

Lol at the people who want to pack the courts btw. The GOP confirmed someone who might have been relatively dodgy when he was 17 (based on accusations that are not extremely credible). The Democrats want to react by seizing the courts to further their own agenda in an almost dictatorial way. Yeah, I really see the similarities here Huh. Packing the courts would be equivalent to the things dodgy right-wing nationalist governments in Eastern Europe do (Orbán, PiS). It would finally show the entire world that America actually is a banana republic Tongue. Personally I consider the GOP's behaviour after Scalia's death to be much more appalling than the GOP confirming Kavanaugh. I don't think the way the judiciary and the other powers are interlinked in the US is particularly healthy anyway, but I guess that's how America works lol.
Logged
emailking
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,438
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #49 on: October 17, 2018, 07:50:24 AM »

There is NOT enough evidence to charge Kavanaugh with a crime.  (Probable Cause)

There's plenty enough for probable cause. Just her making the allegation (were she to report it to the police) is enough for probable cause. Whether it's smart to prosecute is a whole other matter. But he absolutely could be charged with a crime and most likely would have the case advanced from a preliminary hearing or a grand jury.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.083 seconds with 12 queries.